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Old 10-24-2016, 10:55 AM   #31
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
is your WARN engine light coming on? a blown turbo very well may not turn on the light,

but why i ask about an engine miss is if its running perfectly smooth but still blowing unburnt oil all over the back of the bus I would more suspect a turbo like you and cowlitz suggest.. if it has a miss in it and is only hitting on 6 or 7 cylinders I would suspect an injector O-ring or possibly over-filled engine with oil getting by a valve guide seal, or possibly the intake side of the turbo blowing oil into the air intake which would make incredible amounts of smoke..

however i wouldnt expect to see unburnt oil if it is going into the intake unless its so much that cylinder is not firing....

the low oil pressure is likely caused by one of a couple things.

1. a blown turbo will opbviously be leaking oil out to the point the pump cannot keep up
2. the oil level has dropped very quickly due to oil being burned and blown all over.
3. a bad injector oil seal will cause the computer to ramp up the HPOP to try and recover from the leak and will make your lube oil pressure (dash gauge pressure) go lower due to an increased volume required.

4. oil pressure drops as engines warm up.. esp if they are worn.. if the bearings are bad the oil P will drop.. however at thios point id suspect injector seal or turbo as the reason for oil pressure loss..


-Christopher
The warn light didn't come on, although the oil pressure light did flash on for a second, and hasn't returned. At 2000rpm I have about 30-35psi

On load it really did produce an incredible amount of smoke, enough that drivers in the opposite direction stopped on the road because they couldn't see.
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:07 AM   #32
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 6,368
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the T-444E typically doesnt sound real lumpy at idle... a normal running one will feel smooth when you idle and put your hands on the steering wheel it wont feel like dumdumdumdum it is more a smooth sound and feel...

a low speed 'knock' or 'tap' was normal in the pre-2000 units..

I sent my bus to the painter yesterday so I cant take a video of what my 444 sounds like but its definitely not the lumpy sound like my DT-360 or a DY-466 sounds like..

if you can think of how a Ford power-stroke super duty sounds like thats how a T-444E sounds..

at this point it masy be time to start taking things apart..

the easiest place to start is taking the intake pipe apart across the top of the engine.. past the turbo before the engine intake.. and see if its oily... if it is, does it look fresh or like old oil (from a past turbo failure).. if not.. then next

would be to take take the turbo off and see if you have oil on the exhaust manifold going INTO the turbo..

if you have oil BEFORE the turbo in the exhaust manifold then it points to something in the engine itself... the MOST likely culprit are the injector O-rings.. these are a known failure point on these engines...

I also want to verify with you that its actually Engine OIL in the exhaust and not diesel fuel thats been blackened as it goes through the tail-pipe?

a failed injector can send raw fuel out the exhaust and with it smoke.. it will smell like raw diesel similar to the tank as opposed to engine oil like you are accustomed to..

-Christopher
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:32 AM   #33
Skoolie
 
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Location: Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the T-444E typically doesnt sound real lumpy at idle... a normal running one will feel smooth when you idle and put your hands on the steering wheel it wont feel like dumdumdumdum it is more a smooth sound and feel...

a low speed 'knock' or 'tap' was normal in the pre-2000 units..

I sent my bus to the painter yesterday so I cant take a video of what my 444 sounds like but its definitely not the lumpy sound like my DT-360 or a DY-466 sounds like..

if you can think of how a Ford power-stroke super duty sounds like thats how a T-444E sounds..

at this point it masy be time to start taking things apart..

the easiest place to start is taking the intake pipe apart across the top of the engine.. past the turbo before the engine intake.. and see if its oily... if it is, does it look fresh or like old oil (from a past turbo failure).. if not.. then next

would be to take take the turbo off and see if you have oil on the exhaust manifold going INTO the turbo..

if you have oil BEFORE the turbo in the exhaust manifold then it points to something in the engine itself... the MOST likely culprit are the injector O-rings.. these are a known failure point on these engines...

I also want to verify with you that its actually Engine OIL in the exhaust and not diesel fuel thats been blackened as it goes through the tail-pipe?

a failed injector can send raw fuel out the exhaust and with it smoke.. it will smell like raw diesel similar to the tank as opposed to engine oil like you are accustomed to..

-Christopher
Im working on uploading a short video clip, hopefully that will help determine if it is in fact lumpy or not. I certainly cant feel it in the steering wheel etc.

I think it is oil. It doesnt smell like diesel, but to be honest it is not a real strong smell from the liquid. The smoke smells like burnt oil.

I will get the video up then start taking it apart...

I did notice that the dampner or my serpentine is bouncing like crazy, could this be causing an issue related to this?
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:39 AM   #34
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 6,368
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the dampner pulley?? or are you talking about the little spring loaded Idler that tensions the belt? the belt tensioner often bounces some.. if the spring is bad it would bounce alot.. the damper pulley is the main engine pulley at the bottom center of the engine a foot or so below the fan pulley... that one shouldnt bounce as thats the crank itself..

the most likely effect from a loose belt tensioner would be over-heating or squealing serpentine belt..

a nice smooth running engine but lots of oil in the exhaust lends itself to more likely a turbo...

does the turbo "look " brand new or does it look like a wipe-up job by someone who wants one to think its new?

-Christopher
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:40 AM   #35
Skoolie
 
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Ok here are the links to youtube.....

Idle -

1500rpm -

Bouncing dampner? -
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:43 AM   #36
Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the dampner pulley?? or are you talking about the little spring loaded Idler that tensions the belt? the belt tensioner often bounces some.. if the spring is bad it would bounce alot.. the damper pulley is the main engine pulley at the bottom center of the engine a foot or so below the fan pulley... that one shouldnt bounce as thats the crank itself..

the most likely effect from a loose belt tensioner would be over-heating or squealing serpentine belt..

a nice smooth running engine but lots of oil in the exhaust lends itself to more likely a turbo...

does the turbo "look " brand new or does it look like a wipe-up job by someone who wants one to think its new?

-Christopher
thats the word I was looking for! The tensioner! I had a brain fart there!

The turbo looks brand new, I will get a closer look and see if there are dates on the dataplate
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:44 AM   #37
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 6,368
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the engine surely sounds pretty normal and smooth... to me it lends itself to being a turbo issue.. is there a chance that the old turbo blew so much oil out that the exhaust system is still full of it? or are you seeing your engine oil levels drop?

does the smoke start right away if its cooled some and you start it to a slow idle? or does the exhaust system have to heat up before the smoke starts?

what im trying to establish is if you are burning oil in the cylinders or in the pipes past the cylinders...

-Christopher
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:49 AM   #38
Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the engine surely sounds pretty normal and smooth... to me it lends itself to being a turbo issue.. is there a chance that the old turbo blew so much oil out that the exhaust system is still full of it? or are you seeing your engine oil levels drop?

does the smoke start right away if its cooled some and you start it to a slow idle? or does the exhaust system have to heat up before the smoke starts?

what im trying to establish is if you are burning oil in the cylinders or in the pipes past the cylinders...

-Christopher
I do know that the driver who picked the bus up and brought it here said that it didnt drop the oil level in the 100miles he drove it here. I didnt notice any drop in the 10miles or so that I drove it.

I am going to pull the turbo now to take a look. A closer look at the turbo shows that it looks like the turbine side is old with a new compressor section. Perhaps this is evidence of a repair gone wrong....

Luckily I have my tools with me. Removing turbo now!
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:54 AM   #39
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I hope that you resolve your problems rather quickly and get on the road toward home. The advice that you have thus far received is very good. I'm looking forward to seeing your conversion results.

I too made a long distance purchase in the Dallas, TX area, a non-skoolie 1996 Newell Coach. I drove it back to the San Francisco Bay Area in mid-July. I had overheating issues as I drove above 63-mph, especially in the deserts.

I have a couple of recommendations for you:

- Ensure that you purchase AAA roadside assistance (your primary assistance, a tow can cost thousands)

- Ensure that you have insurance company coverage for roadside assistance (this is backup coverage)

- Carry a gallon of motor oil

- Carry two gallons of water for coolant

- Carry jumper cables

- Ensure that you keep up air pressures in the tires when cold (3-psi low on long distance can cause tire failure)

- Check oil and transmission fluid levels every two hours

Good luck!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:09 PM   #40
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Louisiana
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So an update for everyone following along at home...

The compressor side of the turbine is clean, no oil. I have separated the exhaust from the turbo and the oil is dripping out, I also have the manifold clamp off and separated slightly (although not removed) and no oil appears to be dripping out, which I would assume would be the case if that amount of oil was getting through. So I would assume we are looking at a blown turbo.

Is a replacement turbo the likely way forward here?

*EDIT*

I separated the flange from the manifold up pipe to the turbo slightly and there IS oil seeping out. Would this point to the injector o-rings rather than the turbo? Or could it be there is so much oil from the turbo that it is running back down into the manifold?

If it is looking like the o-rings then I will most likely stop the turbo removal and put the pipework back together.

How much work is involved changing the o-rings? Is it possible to identify the leak and just change that one? Or is a whole set required?
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