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Old 05-25-2017, 12:04 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Smile Noob with some specific engine/tranny questions.

Hi everyone. I am new here, longtime stalker. I figured this is where I should post these types of questions. Hadn't seen these specifically answered from using Google search. So I am just looking for clarification.

Was there more DT444's made than DT466's inside of 6-9 window shorties? All I keep finding are DT444's. In both cases though, do they generally have AT545's in them? Or can you luck out and find AT643's in them too?

Since from my research DT466's don't pair well with AT545's? I could be wrong with this though, and am plenty open to the knowledge everyone brings!

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Old 05-25-2017, 12:25 PM   #2
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
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the T-444E is found in a lot of shorties.. it was a decent engine in a short. / medium bus.. the AT545 is the most common trans.. if you get newer than 01 you start to see the allison 2000 series in those.. (the IC BE shorty light duty. had allison 1000s)..

the DT-466 is paired in some cases with the AT545.. usually in the lower power variants of the 466.. in the bigger busses alot of 466's are in front of MT-643s..

I have a T-444E in one of my shorties. and it works great... most were 170 or 175 HP.. i got lucky and have 190 HP (most likely because of the factory A/C).. the AT545 in mine was good till I ruined it as the modulator was bad and I didnt know it..

AT545s in shorter lighter busses generally arent as much as issue with downhills, power loss, etc as they are in the heavier long busses..
-Christopher
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:29 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the T-444E is found in a lot of shorties.. it was a decent engine in a short. / medium bus.. the AT545 is the most common trans.. if you get newer than 01 you start to see the allison 2000 series in those.. (the IC BE shorty light duty. had allison 1000s)..

the DT-466 is paired in some cases with the AT545.. usually in the lower power variants of the 466.. in the bigger busses alot of 466's are in front of MT-643s..

I have a T-444E in one of my shorties. and it works great... most were 170 or 175 HP.. i got lucky and have 190 HP (most likely because of the factory A/C).. the AT545 in mine was good till I ruined it as the modulator was bad and I didnt know it..

AT545s in shorter lighter busses generally arent as much as issue with downhills, power loss, etc as they are in the heavier long busses..
-Christopher

What would be the last year I would want to buy? I have heard 04 and also 06 before the Government started having new emission junk. But I never could find a clear answer.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
What would be the last year I would want to buy? I have heard 04 and also 06 before the Government started having new emission junk. But I never could find a clear answer.
Electronics started showing up in some buses as early as 1995.

Most buses, regardless of type or fuel, became fully electronic in about 2000/2001.

Multiplexing started in the Thomas C2 in 2004. Most other buses started multiplexing soon after.

Emissions started in 2003 with full emissions starting in 2007.

Electronically controlled engines have a lot of neat features that tend to make the engines and transmissions work much more efficiently resulting in better fuel mileage even with higher HP.

If you are not into electronics or if you don't know how to use the electronic diagnostic tools then you would be best advised to find a bus with minimal electronics.

If you are a techno geek and really like playing with vehicle electronics then a newer bus with all the bells and whistles would be a great choice for you.

Regardless, you want to stay away from the smogged diesel engines that are newer than 2007. Whether it used EGR like the IHC engines or after treatment like the Cummins the basic problem with them is much like the problems we ran into with the smogged gas engines of the mid-'70's. It wasn't until several years later that the smogging had been developed to the point where it worked and didn't kill the engines. I think the 2016 and newer buses that use after treatment and not EGR are actually better.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:04 AM   #5
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Engine: DT360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Electronics started showing up in some buses as early as 1995.

Most buses, regardless of type or fuel, became fully electronic in about 2000/2001.

Multiplexing started in the Thomas C2 in 2004. Most other buses started multiplexing soon after.

Emissions started in 2003 with full emissions starting in 2007.

Electronically controlled engines have a lot of neat features that tend to make the engines and transmissions work much more efficiently resulting in better fuel mileage even with higher HP.

If you are not into electronics or if you don't know how to use the electronic diagnostic tools then you would be best advised to find a bus with minimal electronics.

If you are a techno geek and really like playing with vehicle electronics then a newer bus with all the bells and whistles would be a great choice for you.

Regardless, you want to stay away from the smogged diesel engines that are newer than 2007. Whether it used EGR like the IHC engines or after treatment like the Cummins the basic problem with them is much like the problems we ran into with the smogged gas engines of the mid-'70's. It wasn't until several years later that the smogging had been developed to the point where it worked and didn't kill the engines. I think the 2016 and newer buses that use after treatment and not EGR are actually better.
*THIS*.

there were a couple engines.. actually one ion particular that were a problem child.. the VT-365 (also known as the ford powerstroke 6.0).. hasd a lot of issues early on.. in the navistar you'll see this show up in busses 2004-2007 (maybe some 08s that had 07 chassis's).. the first couple years of it were very failure prone... the fords 6.0 was worse than the navistar version (VT-365).. but even the VT had its share of issues related to EGR / EGR cooler and oil cooling..

FYI - the talk of ford and navistar together is that Navistar (international) built the engines that ford used as Powerstrokes up until the current ford 6.7 came out..

the oil / EGR cooling issues with the VT-365 could result in Overheated Oil.. running that engine at a heavy load and reaching oil temperature of 260 degrees could cause plastc parts (yep plastic pieces in an engine).. to melt.. its not even a rebuild at this point.. and it only takes one overheat event like that to ruin it..

Personally im a Techie guy and a mechanical guy.. one of my busses is a DT-360 (all mechanical) and the other is a T-444E(electronic).. I love messing with both of them.. the electronics dont scare me.. in fact to me they are useful as I can see whats going on inside my engine via the computers.... I also own the tools to work on this stuff..

its a bit of a trade-off... the older the bus the more simple the mechanicals / electricals, but its perhaps harder to find parts for and the likeliehood of more rust or body damage.. suspension is usually a bit rougher in an older bus.. may need some work but is still all mechanical.. (no ABS sensors etc)

the newer the bus the more complex the drivetrain but often the better shape the body is in...

if you are better at metal fab / interior, exterior build / welding, etc then you go for the mechanical older bus..

if you are better at electricals / engines / etc and less at body fab then the newer bus may be for you...

im the latter.. body work eludes me, always has.. but im not afraid to tear an engine or transmission to pieces and not bothered to go after electrical demons or troubleshoot ECM ISSUES..

-Christopher
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