Blue Bird grill extension - why, what?

[Elliot Naess]

What is this? Why is there a "bubble" on the front of this bus?

The top part, with all those angles in all directions, is added on and could be fiberglass or steel.
The bottom part, with the headlights, is a second flavor of the normally flat steel headlight panel.
And the bumper is mounted equally far forward of normal.

This bubble seems to lengthen the engine compartment around six inches. Why? What's in there? A longer engine? Target acquisition radar?

[DoubleO7]

Looks to be sheet metal due to the tiny hinges at the top.
Maybe someone did an engine swap and needed those few extra inches.
Or there is a big aftercooler now in front of the o.e.m. rad?

[Tango]

Much more aerodynamic.

[Elliot Naess]

I'm pretty sure this is from the BB factory. I have seen the same a few times over the years (in photos).
And while the multi-angle panel looks hokey, the headlight panel looks very much factory.

Millicent is the same year, and she has the aftercooler in front of the radiator, and it all fits inside the normal flat front, with something like 1 1/2 " to spare.

And there is no sign of air-conditioning in this bus. Though... room for an air-conditioning condenser is a possibility.

There are similar buses with Cummins 8.3, which I assume is longer than the common 5.9. I think I have even seen one or two with the IH DT466. But BB seems to build dog-houses to fit whatever engine. (Boy howdy, they have a lot of different ones! LOL)
And I think I would have noticed if I had seen this extension on a bus with the 8.3 or 466.

So... still looking for the answer.

[cowlitzcoach]

That is a standard front grille from Blue Bird on a series of TC2000 buses from the '90's.

I don't know that I ever heard why they had the grille extension but I would guess that the engines in those buses were longer than the Cummins 5.9L. Perhaps a Cat C7 or Cummins 8.3L.

Or perhaps they were ordered with bigger radiators, intercoolers, or transmission coolers and needed the extra space.

But it was standard from the factory.

[DoubleO7]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

That is a standard front grille from Blue Bird on a series of TC2000 buses from the '90's.

I don't know that I ever heard why they had the grille extension but I would guess that the engines in those buses were longer than the Cummins 5.9L. Perhaps a Cat C7 or Cummins 8.3L.

Or perhaps they were ordered with bigger radiators, intercoolers, or transmission coolers and needed the extra space.

But it was standard from the factory.

Yep. your right.
Found this youtube of what is described as a 1992 with 5.9L Cummins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgrFnu9e11g

[Elliot Naess]

My Millicent is also a 1992 TC2000 with 5.9. But no extension on the front.
So yes, the extension probably covers some sort of option. The question is... what option?

[Scooternj]

Flux capacitor and Mr Fusion.

[milkmania]

Maybe they were trying something out for serviceability?
It'd be easier to 'pop the hood' to get to the front mechanicals, I would think.

Or pull the two hinge pins and get the hood totally out of the way.

[Elliot Naess]

Hmmmm.... I finally thought to try Wikipedia. And they have a page for BB TC2000.

• 1991: ... ... As a running change, front bodywork TC/2000 Front Engine is redesigned with a flip-up access panel. This allows for better access and serviceability for drivers and mechanics; it requires the headlight bar and front bumper to be moved forward several inches. On front-engine models, the grille is redesigned for better cooling; 4 chrome bars replace the 4 slots (rear-engine versions use a blank version of the 1988-1990 bodywork). Inside, a redesigned engine cover takes up less space in the driver compartment.
• 1992: TC/2000 front bodywork redesigned on both versions. Similar to the All American, three hinged access panels allow access to service points and the engine radiator (on front-engine models).

So.... Looks like the bulge was a running change in 1991, then back to flat in 1992.

The bus in question is a 1992 by the VIN, but there is often overlap between years -- especially with "running changes".

Maybe there is nothing in there after all? But I do not see why they would need to move headlights and bumper forward just to create a single top-hinged access panel.

And the extra length makes the 84 pax version exceed 40 feet.

[prof.fate]

Yeah, years are rather fluid. I drive an 07 according to the labels in the bus, but it was built between 4/06 and 7/06. I see decals with both dates.

We'll be selling some 00 or 01 BB's in a few months. Looked in one and it's basic bus, and has non-matching dates as well.

And last month we got in two new IC buses - it's obvious they were builtin 2016..but are listed at 2018 model year.

Why the weirdness?

One guess is how school districts word contracts. We have one contract that says buses can't be over 14 years old..not sure what the defining date is as we're still running them and they're the 00/01 models..my math says they're 16 years old...

the new contract that we're geting the '18 buses for has a 10 year limit...so we can what, run them till 2028? They went into service in 2016..again, I get 12 years with my math.

Maybe cause it for schools they use that 'new math' i keep hearing about?

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Hmmmm.... I finally thought to try Wikipedia. And they have a page for BB TC2000.

• 1991: ... ... As a running change, front bodywork TC/2000 Front Engine is redesigned with a flip-up access panel. This allows for better access and serviceability for drivers and mechanics; it requires the headlight bar and front bumper to be moved forward several inches. On front-engine models, the grille is redesigned for better cooling; 4 chrome bars replace the 4 slots (rear-engine versions use a blank version of the 1988-1990 bodywork). Inside, a redesigned engine cover takes up less space in the driver compartment.
• 1992: TC/2000 front bodywork redesigned on both versions. Similar to the All American, three hinged access panels allow access to service points and the engine radiator (on front-engine models).

So.... Looks like the bulge was a running change in 1991, then back to flat in 1992.

The bus in question is a 1992 by the VIN, but there is often overlap between years -- especially with "running changes".

Maybe there is nothing in there after all? But I do not see why they would need to move headlights and bumper forward just to create a single top-hinged access panel.

And the extra length makes the 84 pax version exceed 40 feet.

[DoubleO7]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Maybe there is nothing in there after all? But I do not see why they would need to move headlights and bumper forward just to create a single top-hinged access panel.

And the extra length makes the 84 pax version exceed 40 feet.

I think maybe federal regs say the bumper has to be out in front of everything?

[Elliot Naess]

Bumper out front, no doubt. I still wonder why the hinged panel is not simply flat. The shape stiffens it very well, but vast overkill for the purpose.

Yes, I don't doubt there may be juggling of years for various purposes. But I don't see why it would affect the shape of that panel.

I sure appreciate this input, gentlemen! Please keep it coming.

[cowlitzcoach]

It occurred to me as I was looking at some pictures what the difference may have been.

The original TC2000's had no panel that opened up on the front fascia to access anything. In order to service the windshield wiper motors the whole front fascia would have to be removed.

The bent nose addition allowed for some access to things like adding coolant and servicing wiper motors without time consuming removal of body panels. I would also imagine the washer fluid container was mounted in there as well.

Newer models that went back to a flat front fascia had compartment doors that opened up with the wiper motors attached to the compartment doors for real easy servicing. Flat doors were probably easier and less expensive to build which may have played a part in the change. The coolant and washer fluid fills were located there as well making it very easy to check and to refill.

[DoubleO7]

The "hood" may also been nothing more than a fleet maintenance garage appeasing option. But after a year or two BB bean counters decided they were not being bought often enough so they reverted back to the regular front but added the upper access panels instead.

[cadillackid]

on my bluebird the engine is a 1999 the chassis is a year 2000 and the body is a year 2000..

on my carpenter the chassis and engine is a 1990. and the body is a 1991...

the title listed dates on both busses are the body year and not the chassis year..

-Christopher

[farmerkyle]

Hello i have a question what is the dimension for the blue bird TC 2000 Grille

[Elliot Naess]

Hi, Farmer Kyle.
Welcome to the madhouse.

First, let us look at what we are talking about.



1991-ish extended nose.
This photo was in the original post, but evaporated when a photo-hosting outfit went out of business.

For comparison...



Normal 1994 nose.

So, which one are we talking about, and what measurements do you need?

I walked outside to the normal 1994 and measured the four horizontal openings to be 28 3/4 inches long. And the height from the top of the highest opening to the bottom of the lowest opening of the four is 10 1/2 inches.
There are two more openings in the black area between the lamps. Those are the same length. And when I include those, the total height is 19 3/4 inches.

If you can specify exactly what you need, and for what purpose, we may be able to help you better.

And of course, we always enjoy it when new members introduce themselves a bit.