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Old 09-24-2019, 11:33 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Bus 3D model project, help request

Hi there! I'm new here. While I don't own a skoolie, I'm working on one, though not in the conventional way.

I'm trying to construct an accurate 3d model of a 2004 Thomas Built Freightliner FS-65 for a BeamNG mod, but I'm finding myself searching for sometimes 4+ hours for references on single parts of the bus.

I'm wondering if someone who has one of these would be able to help me out with some areas I'd need references for.

If not, maybe someone could direct me to where I could find the appropriate help.

Anything I get will be appreciated greatly
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:33 AM   #2
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Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
You might try talking to the manufacturer ... Freightliner Custom Chassis Corp. @ 800-385-4357.


Explain to them what you are doing. they may even be able to pull up the exact bus.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:06 AM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
You might try talking to the manufacturer ... Freightliner Custom Chassis Corp. @ 800-385-4357.


Explain to them what you are doing. they may even be able to pull up the exact bus.
I'd be worried about contacting the actual company because that could instantly put an end of over a year of modeling work, since its going into a game where it can be destroyed in every way possible.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:37 PM   #4
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Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
I'd be worried about contacting the actual company because that could instantly put an end of over a year of modeling work, since its going into a game where it can be destroyed in every way possible.
Of course, I do not agree but that is okay. It is your project.


Having said that, I do own a 2002 Freightliner FS-65 Thomas Built Bus. What data are you looking for?
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Old 09-26-2019, 12:49 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Of course, I do not agree but that is okay. It is your project.


Having said that, I do own a 2002 Freightliner FS-65 Thomas Built Bus. What data are you looking for?
I'm looking for images/details on some hard to see areas on the bus. Lots of small bits that are hard to find / nobody would think of taking pictures of

- Where all the wiring is going behind the engine, I've been looking for weeks on this one.

There's also a cap peaking out from there on some photos I've seen. Transmission fluid?

- On a rear mounted fuel tank, how does the fuel run into the tank? Above the frame between the "ribbing" below the body?

-The top compartment here. Does this door open all the way (on my model I get 70 degrees before it would hit the roof), and how is the compartment shaped + how deep is it?


- I'd like to see a top down photo from just behind the windshield on the interior. I don't know what's below that notch/cutout

- I'd like to see what's on the left of the steering wheel. I've only seen one photo of this area and it had a parking brake lever. However, I don't know what goes there when the parking brake is located beside the ignition.

- Door angle. Does it match up with the pillars beside the windshield? How is the interior shaped in between the windshield and the passenger door?

- Driveshaft. I've seen videos showing some parts of the bus underside, but I still haven't determined where all the attachment points are to the frame

- Rear bumper. I have not seen any pictures/videos showing how this attaches to the bus

- Front tow hooks (I assume that's what's behind the 2 holes in the bumper). I'd like to see exactly how these are attached. I've seen a picture that shows enough to 'guestimate' but I really like to get things right.

- Wipers. I've yet to come across a real good closeup showing how these look on this bus.

- Exhaust attachments. Are the ones on the inner frame just mirrored versions of the ones on the outer frame?

- Drivers seat. How does it look from the front? I've got a large gap between the seat and the ground in my model at the moment.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:40 PM   #6
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Of course, I do not agree but that is okay. It is your project.


Having said that, I do own a 2002 Freightliner FS-65 Thomas Built Bus. What data are you looking for?
(Sorry if I'm double posting. I thought I replied and then it disappeared, I don't know if I accidentally deleted the post or what)

I'm looking for images/details on some hard to see areas on the bus. Lots of small bits that are hard to find / nobody would think of taking pictures of

- Where all the wiring is going behind the engine, I've been looking for weeks on this one.

There's also a cap peaking out from there on some photos I've seen. Transmission fluid?

- On a rear mounted fuel tank, how does the fuel run into the tank? Above the frame between the "ribbing" below the body?

-The top compartment here. Does this door open all the way, and how is the compartment shaped + how deep is it?


- I'd like to see a top down photo from just behind the windshield on the interior. I don't know what's below that notch/cutout

- I'd like to see what's on the left of the steering wheel. I've only seen one photo of this area and it had a parking brake lever. However, I don't know what goes there when the parking brake is located beside the ignition.

- Door angle. Does it match up with the pillars beside the windshield? How is the interior shaped in between the windshield and the passenger door?

- Driveshaft. I've seen videos showing some parts of the bus underside, but I still haven't determined where all the attachment points are to the frame

- Rear bumper. I have not seen any pictures/videos showing how this attaches to the bus

- Front tow hooks (I assume that's what's behind the 2 holes in the bumper). I'd like to see exactly how these are attached. I've seen a picture that shows enough to 'guestimate' but I really like to get things right.

- Wipers. I've yet to come across a real good closeup showing how these look on this bus.

- Exhaust attachments. Are the ones on the inner frame just mirrored versions of the ones on the outer frame?

- Drivers seat. How does it look from the front? I've got a large gap between the seat and the ground in my model at the moment.
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:32 AM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
You do have a lot of very specific needs. I like that. I will see what I can help with. I have moved my original driver seat behind the steering wheel about 10 feet so I could install a different seat as the driver seat. Thus, I have unhindered access to the front of the seat and I will take a picture for you. I'll see what else I can get.



Are you piecing together your model from various photos on the 'net?


Do all of your source bus pictures need to be of the same bus? I ask this because the one in your photo of the engine compartment is slightly different than my bus. The fresh air intake is oval in our bus and rectangular in the photo.
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Old 09-27-2019, 06:21 AM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Are you piecing together your model from various photos on the 'net?
Yup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Do all of your source bus pictures need to be of the same bus? I ask this because the one in your photo of the engine compartment is slightly different than my bus. The fresh air intake is oval in our bus and rectangular in the photo.
Nope, At this point I've probably looked at 50+ buses for references :P

---
Here's how the model is coming along, if anyone is curious.





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Old 09-28-2019, 01:32 AM   #9
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Year: 2002
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Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
(Sorry if I'm double posting. I thought I replied and then it disappeared, I don't know if I accidentally deleted the post or what)

I get that every once and a while, usually on LONG posts. I am hoping this one will go through with no problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
I'm looking for images/details on some hard to see areas on the bus. Lots of small bits that are hard to find / nobody would think of taking pictures of

... or would think to share anyway I do have a few for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Where all the wiring is going behind the engine, I've been looking for weeks on this one.

There are wires and pneumatic tubes. The colorful ones on the driver side at the top are pneumatic lines leading into the cab. There are also cables leading from the engine computer through the firewall and also a chassis wiring harness.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
There's also a cap peaking out from there on some photos I've seen. Transmission fluid?

The transmission fluid dipstick is like an engine oil dipstick. If you could show a closeup of the exact cap you need to be identified, someone will be able to identify it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- On a rear mounted fuel tank, how does the fuel run into the tank? Above the frame between the "ribbing" below the body?
Fuel fills are in various places depending on the manuffacturer. On our TBB, it is on the passenger side just below the floor level leading right into the tank. The tank is mounted just behind the stairwell in a steel cage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
-The top compartment here. Does this door open all the way, and how is the compartment shaped + how deep is it?

That door does open all the way. 100 degrees I would say without measuring. The area behind it is mostly open space where some wires and pneumatic lines are run. The wiper motors are mounted to the left and right of the door. The space is 8 inches deep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- I'd like to see a top down photo from just behind the windshield on the interior. I don't know what's below that notch/cutout

I am not sure what notch you are referring to in your comment. It is the little square one just below the glove box? There is nothing in there. Mostly a change pocket.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- I'd like to see what's on the left of the steering wheel. I've only seen one photo of this area and it had a parking brake lever. However, I don't know what goes there when the parking brake is located beside the ignition.

On our bus, that is where the switches and radio are mounted. There is/was also a cabinet that housed a heater for the driver and defrost. One of the images you posted of your model shows something that looks like one of the switch banks. The detail/placement is very good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Door angle. Does it match up with the pillars beside the windshield? How is the interior shaped in between the windshield and the passenger door?

The door is slanted back ... see the pictures below.


20190927_172509 Front Door - Front.jpg
20190927_172559 Front Door - Rear.jpg
20190927_172615 Front Door - Close up of top gap.jpg


I do hope these help. Let me know if you need measurements or other pictures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Driveshaft. I've seen videos showing some parts of the bus underside, but I still haven't determined where all the attachment points are to the frame

As in your model, the drive shaft is a three-part driveshaft. One goes into the back of the transmission, one attaches to the differential and the third connects the two shafts together. There are two attachment points. They are the places where the yolks join the three pieces together. If you need pictures, let me know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Rear bumper. I have not seen any pictures/videos showing how this attaches to the bus

I will have to take a few pictures of the bumper attachments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Front tow hooks (I assume that's what's behind the 2 holes in the bumper). I'd like to see exactly how these are attached. I've seen a picture that shows enough to 'guestimate' but I really like to get things right.

I'll take a couple of shots for you. Yes, those two cut-outs in the front bumper are for access to the tow hooks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Wipers. I've yet to come across a real good closeup showing how these look on this bus.

I may have a shot of the wipers. I will post that once I find it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Exhaust attachments. Are the ones on the inner frame just mirrored versions of the ones on the outer frame?

I had to rebuild my complete exhaust on our bus. The hanger points were there, but the rubber hangers were gone. They were only on one side of the frame piece.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
- Drivers seat. How does it look from the front? I've got a large gap between the seat and the ground in my model at the moment.

Here are shots of the original driver seat ...


20190927_160415 Original Driver Seat - Front.jpg
20190927_160441 Original Driver Seat - Side.jpg
20190927_160550 Original Driver Seat - Rear.jpg


Let me know of anything else you need!

[Sorry for the turned images, I forgot to correct them before uploading.]


Cheers!
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:11 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Thanks a bunch! These are already really helpful

Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
There are wires and pneumatic tubes. The colorful ones on the driver side at the top are pneumatic lines leading into the cab. There are also cables leading from the engine computer through the firewall and also a chassis wiring harness.
Would it be possible to get a picture / more detail on this? I'd like to route them in my model to the proper places.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
The transmission fluid dipstick is like an engine oil dipstick. If you could show a closeup of the exact cap you need to be identified, someone will be able to identify it.
It's visible here, I guess that'd be transmission fluid then?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
That door does open all the way. 100 degrees I would say without measuring. The area behind it is mostly open space where some wires and pneumatic lines are run. The wiper motors are mounted to the left and right of the door. The space is 8 inches deep.

Looks like I've got some fixing to do then ;)
Is the opening behind it shaped like the door with rounded edges or is it just a box?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
I am not sure what notch you are referring to in your comment. It is the little square one just below the glove box? There is nothing in there. Mostly a change pocket.
I'm referring to the cutout behind the center of the windshield, middle-right in this photo




Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post

As in your model, the drive shaft is a three-part driveshaft. One goes into the back of the transmission, one attaches to the differential and the third connects the two shafts together. There are two attachment points. They are the places where the yolks join the three pieces together. If you need pictures, let me know.
Pictures would definitely be appreciated
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:16 PM   #11
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i am not a gamer but my kids do play some games like world of tanks or stuff like that that does show some details of tanks and things but not to the detail you are looking for for your bus model.
You did say you were scared of contacting the manufacturer because you wanted all the details cause in your game THE BUS WOULD BE DESTROYED in every possible way?
A little concerned about that.
Is this a simulator to help better bus construction with a new brand?
Is this a game specifically teaching destroying a bus?
Just a little concerned about all the specific details you are worried about describing for a video game of how to destroy a bus in every possible manner?
That could lead to drastic problems in real life scenarios with some of the things going on in the world right now.
We do need to help educate or up and coming youth and there are already enough games with destruction and i dont think that that much detail of a school bus so people can learn the best way to destroy it in a video game really belongs in a game at all.
If it is even being designed for a game?
If that much specific info. is needed for your project then find one and get out of your office and get dirty taking your own pictures?
not like they are hard to find and any decent person can get full access to a school bus barn to look around.
Aint trying to be RUDE but how to destroy a school bus should not be a GAME
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:21 PM   #12
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snip
Well, it's just one of the possibilities with BeamNG.drive. BeamNG.drive is a softbody physics simulator where you can do anything with vehicles. Whether you enjoy driving them, or crashing them. It works because the vehicles are programmed into the game in a physical way.

For me personally, I'll have more fun driving this in BeamNG. Though I'm sure others will think differently. I've had a bus driver post in my thread over at BeamNG saying that they could finally "drive the bus like they were never allowed to", for example

Note that BeamNG doesn't simulate things like explosions / bombs / etc. It's entirely just a "for fun" physics simulation and I doubt anyone would use it to plan any sort of real life destruction.

Here's the trailer if your curious about it. The vanilla/default cars go into the same levels of detail.
https://youtu.be/7vGYVUCmxeI

EDIT: Also about the kinds of details I'm requesting. I'd just like to have things visually there.

- Right now the engine area is very empty in the model, and it's missing tubes/hosing. In BeamNG these make no physical difference and they're just for show.

- Driveshaft is floating at the moment, which of course isn't realistic

- For the exhaust, just wanted to make sure I'm not over-strengthening it / attaching it in a nonsensical way

- Drivers seat is floating at the moment, I can finish it now that Native has provided photos of it

Also, I'd love to find one of these to look at myself, though I wouldn't have any idea on where to start with that.
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:21 PM   #13
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in your picture
to the left in it the silver cap and reservoir on the picture side of the top radiator hose is for the power steering fluid
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummiesman View Post
Well, it's just one of the possibilities with BeamNG.drive. BeamNG.drive is a softbody physics simulator where you can do anything with vehicles. Whether you enjoy driving them, or crashing them. It works because the vehicles are programmed into the game in a physical way.

For me personally, I'll have more fun driving this in BeamNG. Though I'm sure others will think differently.

Note that BeamNG doesn't simulate things like explosions / bombs / etc. It's entirely just a "for fun" physics simulation and I doubt anyone would use it to plan any sort of real life destruction.

Here's the trailer if your curious about it.
https://youtu.be/7vGYVUCmxeI
You doubt anyone will?
but it is accessible to the ones that could and would to learn how to through a freaking video game that is stuck out there for anyone with a computer to learn how to destroy a bus.
SORRY
I was a MARINE and have had to deal/worry with some of that mess.
These busses carry our countries NATIONAL TREASURE.
OUR CHILDREN are OUR NATIONAL TREASURE.
We as adults are responsible for raising them.
As far as how to destroy your fs65 model you can google NHTSA crash bulletins most buses are built where the body seperates from the chassis in a big crash or rollover
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:43 PM   #15
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You doubt anyone will?
but it is accessible to the ones that could and would to learn how to through a freaking video game that is stuck out there for anyone with a computer to learn how to destroy a bus.
SORRY
I was a MARINE and have had to deal/worry with some of that mess.
These busses carry our countries NATIONAL TREASURE.
OUR CHILDREN are OUR NATIONAL TREASURE.
We as adults are responsible for raising them.
As far as how to destroy your fs65 model you can google NHTSA crash bulletins most buses are built where the body seperates from the chassis in a big crash or rollover
This game has been out for 7 years and I haven't heard once of someone comitting any crimes because of it. The model is far from completely detailed (and it never will feature complete details), and it's not going to teach you how to destroy a school bus. It'll let you drive it in crazy ways, and crash it if you want, but if someone wanted to do that they'd already have done it.

It's also worth mentioning that the simulation isn't very complex, nor will it match the real bus. BeamNG is not a game that someone would want to use to plan anything. You can't tear apart the engine, you can't play with the electronics (that's not even simulated), you can't slice it as the physics are not that complex, etc/

There's already been multiple school bus mods for the game, and the game even comes with a city bus.

It's worth noting as well that BeamNG is not my game, and I'm not affiliated with the developers. I'm just creating a 3rd party mod for it.
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Old 09-28-2019, 02:31 PM   #16
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not trying to make hard ship.
i am not a gamer and could care less about a video game?
my gaming era was the atari 2600.
not trying to be rude just saying that you are asking for alot of specific details that the kids playing the game are not gonna give a crap about but others in the world?
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Old 09-28-2019, 02:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
not trying to make hard ship.
i am not a gamer and could care less about a video game?
my gaming era was the atari 2600.
not trying to be rude just saying that you are asking for alot of specific details that the kids playing the game are not gonna give a crap about but others in the world?
The reason I ask specific details is because I'm looking to fill in visual gaps in the model, which would otherwise look empty / strange. Most of these details won't even affect anything other than visuals.

To respond to the rest of your question: What I'm trying to say is I don't see how making a mod that allows you to break a few parts off the bus if you treat it wrong could be harmful. It's basic things like the hood, mirrors, etc. which use made-up strength values anyways, so what happens in the game wouldn't apply to the real bus.
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:45 PM   #18
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Year: 2002
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Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
I'll work on the items you have requested.


In the mean time, JollyRoger answered the "cap" question.


The "notch" in the dashboard at the center of the windshield is for extra air flow for the windshield defrost.


The opening in the "headboard" with the door that swings up extends from sidewall to sidewall. It is a very large cavernous area made of sheet metal. The front is the top front of the bus where the lights are and where the wipers motors are attached.



These are pictures of the tow hook on the driver side from the front and below.


20190928_162612 Tow Hook - Driver Side - Front.jpg

20190928_162640 Tow Hook - Driver Side - Below.jpg



... and this is the driver side attachment point for the bumper. It attaches to the frame running on the left of the image by two bolts in the bumper .


20190928_162751 Bumper Attachment - Driver Side - Rear.jpg
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:12 PM   #19
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Awesome! Thanks so much for your help. Feels good to finally start on the last few bits of the model
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:26 PM   #20
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Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Cool ... looks good!
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