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Old 04-10-2019, 06:42 PM   #1
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bus conversion vs box truck build, thoughts?

hey yall

ive been sold on building a bus for more than a year now, love the idea of a skoolie conversion. im having a hell of a time getting anyone to actually sell me a bus! Its been like pulling teeth to get anyone to show a bus much less accept cash and let it go, thats after finding someone that will take the 30sec it takes to snap a pic of the vin plate or doesnt think their 250k mile rotted bus is worth $10k lol Blows my mind.... but anyway!

i have 2 identical vehicles and i want to see what yall would pick or how you would build them.

both are 2003 international with the dt466 allison 2000 about 150k on the odo limited rust for ny, one is a 35ft traditional dog nose bus one is a 4 door 20ft box truck both right at $4200 either would need to be regeared for optimal highway speed/mileage

WHAT WOULD YOU PICK TO BUILD AND WHY?!

a few notes to consider

- i would not keep the box on the truck, would frame the living quarters from scratch

- i have a very custom building style, this would include adding a deck on the rear for hauling 2+ motorcycles. roof deck/ integrated roof top tent as well as some sort of open concept french door or fold down wall on one side.

-shower kitchen bathroom etc pretty much a must

-cab pass through is a big piece

- the pro to the bus would be, being able to use it untill i build it or while im building it.

-the con is the truck is technically under cdl while the bus would need to be converted to camper papers

- semi limited budget and timeline to build.

-looking to sleep 4 comfortably and separately
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:51 PM   #2
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I would not go near a bus in NY, period. If your not willing to travel for a better bus you will possibly regret it in the end.
Lay out the dimensions of your floor plan on a scale taped square space on the floor. Personally I don't want to be able to reach my bathroom, kitchen, living area, etc. from my bed. I'm having trouble having enough room in a 37'er, no way I could do one in a box truck without feeling like i'm living in a closet.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willsmusicbus View Post
hey yall

ive been sold on building a bus for more than a year now, love the idea of a skoolie conversion. im having a hell of a time getting anyone to actually sell me a bus! Its been like pulling teeth to get anyone to show a bus much less accept cash and let it go, thats after finding someone that will take the 30sec it takes to snap a pic of the vin plate or doesnt think their 250k mile rotted bus is worth $10k lol Blows my mind.... but anyway!

i have 2 identical vehicles and i want to see what yall would pick or how you would build them.

both are 2003 international with the dt466 allison 2000 about 150k on the odo limited rust for ny, one is a 35ft traditional dog nose bus one is a 4 door 20ft box truck both right at $4200 either would need to be regeared for optimal highway speed/mileage

WHAT WOULD YOU PICK TO BUILD AND WHY?!

a few notes to consider

- i would not keep the box on the truck, would frame the living quarters from scratch

- i have a very custom building style, this would include adding a deck on the rear for hauling 2+ motorcycles. roof deck/ integrated roof top tent as well as some sort of open concept french door or fold down wall on one side.

-shower kitchen bathroom etc pretty much a must

-cab pass through is a big piece

- the pro to the bus would be, being able to use it untill i build it or while im building it.

-the con is the truck is technically under cdl while the bus would need to be converted to camper papers

- semi limited budget and timeline to build.

-looking to sleep 4 comfortably and separately
The bus is exactly like my bus, down to year, engine, transmission, mileage and being from NY. "Limited rust" is probably not remotely accurate - most likely it has serious corrosion around the wheel wells and the back door. Have you seen the bus in person? If you've only seen photos, a telltale would be a lack of pics of the underside of the bus or of the back.

Given what you want to do, you might be better off with the truck. You can register the truck in Vermont as a Motor Home, too, getting you out of the CDL requirement.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
The bus is exactly like my bus, down to year, engine, transmission, mileage and being from NY. "Limited rust" is probably not remotely accurate - most likely it has serious corrosion around the wheel wells and the back door. Have you seen the bus in person? If you've only seen photos, a telltale would be a lack of pics of the underside of the bus or of the back.

Given what you want to do, you might be better off with the truck. You can register the truck in Vermont as a Motor Home, too, getting you out of the CDL requirement.
just to clarify ive seen both, rust is about equal but not bad. anything close to ny is gonna need some fixing. the truck is the one thats good to go its the bus that is not yet clear of the cdl
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:02 PM   #5
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I built my U-RV out of a 94 F-700 Cab &Chassis and a 88 24 ft Uhaul box.
THe Chassis is a 10K Front 23K rear weight GVW and came with air brakes.
It was a 186 wheelbase Factory and is now about 194 wheel base.
Pro of this one
is that in 88 U-Haul boxes were all aluminum. 3000 pound box.
Plenty of brake POWER (finished weight of 16K, HALF of GVWR)
insurance was easier because "IT wasn't a Former school bus"
Con
Terrible ride on rear because of (4000 pound spring rate PER INCH) steel springs
(I fixed this with Air liner rear suspension swap)

My Queen size bed is of course over the cab, and the last 7 foot is the bathroom. (I did install a 48 inch shower stall. )
__________________________________________________ _________

The only buses I'd consider are 15-20 years old.
I'd avoid like the plague:
ALL C-2 Freightliners. (too many computers, Modules, other failure points)
Any bus with a Mercedes-Benz Diesel Engine. (Look up EOS code)
any bus WITHOUT a air-ride rear axle
ANY Bus with 22.5 wheels and hyd brakes. (Air brakes work 10 times better AND they are far cheaper for parts)
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekanic View Post
I built my U-RV out of a 94 F-700 Cab &Chassis and a 88 24 ft Uhaul box.
THe Chassis is a 10K Front 23K rear weight GVW and came with air brakes.
It was a 186 wheelbase Factory and is now about 194 wheel base.
Pro of this one
is that in 88 U-Haul boxes were all aluminum. 3000 pound box.
Plenty of brake POWER (finished weight of 16K, HALF of GVWR)
insurance was easier because "IT wasn't a Former school bus"
Con
Terrible ride on rear because of (4000 pound spring rate PER INCH) steel springs
(I fixed this with Air liner rear suspension swap)

My Queen size bed is of course over the cab, and the last 7 foot is the bathroom. (I did install a 48 inch shower stall. )
__________________________________________________ _________

The only buses I'd consider are 15-20 years old.
I'd avoid like the plague:
ALL C-2 Freightliners. (too many computers, Modules, other failure points)
Any bus with a Mercedes-Benz Diesel Engine. (Look up EOS code)
any bus WITHOUT a air-ride rear axle
ANY Bus with 22.5 wheels and hyd brakes. (Air brakes work 10 times better AND they are far cheaper for parts)

completley agree there.... its amazing how quick you can narrow down such a wide field.
i set my selection to 2003 and older aiming on the older side... id never touch an 04 or newer
cat 3126 dt466 or 8.3 cummins is what your left with for engines
air brakes are a must either way


thats an excellent note on the rear susp there, Thanks!
i will have to look into what the truck is running.
air ride is huge when it comes to roads these days, maybe again its just an ny thing but we got potholes on the highway that would eat a small car
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:31 PM   #7
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theres good and bad here in ny. anything from the north country looks like it got shot up by the 10 year mark, anything from a cny city gets the salt real bad too. the few ive found were all southern ny or brought in from out of state by someone looking to also convert. no more rust than most other states. of course something out of arizona or cali cant be beat but i also cant afford the extra grand or 2 it would take to get out there and get it back...although it would be a fun trip
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by willsmusicbus View Post
completley agree there.... its amazing how quick you can narrow down such a wide field.
i set my selection to 2003 and older aiming on the older side... id never touch an 04 or newer
cat 3126 dt466 or 8.3 cummins is what your left with for engines
air brakes are a must either way


thats an excellent note on the rear susp there, Thanks!
i will have to look into what the truck is running.
air ride is huge when it comes to roads these days, maybe again its just an ny thing but we got potholes on the highway that would eat a small car
My air side swap was the best thing i ever did to this vehicle. I took the complete Rear axle and all and swapped it in the Ford. It was the Rear axle from a 92 FLT-120 tractor. 20K rated Bags. My rear axle weight is roughly half that. So the air pressure in the bag is about Half as much as usual.
It is amazing how good this thing rides.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by willsmusicbus View Post
of course something out of arizona or cali cant be beat but i also cant afford the extra grand or 2 it would take to get out there and get it back...although it would be a fun trip
What would you honestly expect full rust repairs to cost? $2k may be a bargain on a vehicle that size. Starting with a better condition vehicle makes a world of difference with everything you do.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:52 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dazdconfsd View Post
What would you honestly expect full rust repairs to cost? $2k may be a bargain on a vehicle that size. Starting with a better condition vehicle makes a world of difference with everything you do.
from what ive seen and what i plan to cut out anyway id say max $500 but more realistically $100 in sheet metal and your time to weld that in. like any other bus were talking about a quarter to a baseball size hole not even on the exterior of the rear wheel well but the floor side if the rust is awful

i have a guy that does my sand blasting for me so i already plan on a full undercarriage blast and a nice enamel or heavy paint like steel it... i could see 100-200$ difference in blast cost there between a bus thats real rusty vs something perfect
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:04 AM   #11
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To me, there are two main differences : The layout, and the safety factor.

With a bus, you've essentially got the full length of the body for living space. Get a 40-foot bus, and you've essentially got an 8x40 rectangle to play with. You can move around in that rectangle at will, at any time. It's all the same space. You might normally be wearing a seatbelt in a designated seat, but you could take it off, wander back to the bathroom, grab something from the fridge, etc. etc. Everything is one room.

With a truck, you've got 2 sections - there's the cab, and then there's the room in the box in the back. A lot of the time, the two are not connected. First, that means that you can't just wander to the box to grab something from the living quarters while driving down the highway. You've got to pull over and stop. Second, It also means that all your passengers are stuck together IN the truck cab while driving. Not that it's automatically a problem, but you will have everyone in a confined space for the duration of the driving. Having the box separated from the cab also means that you lose the length that the cab takes up. You've got 6 or 7 feet of truck that you're not really using (Though you could do an over-the-cab sleeper and re-gain some of that space.)

There's also the safety factor - with a bus, you should be safe anywhere in the body in an accident. Bus bodies are built to carry people inside. Box trucks aren't. I'm sure its possible to build a body that would be considerably more durable and safe then the standard cargo box, it's just a question of where you want to spend your time - building the outside, or building the inside.

After that, I think the levels of customization are about the same.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:26 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mark_In_MA View Post
There's also the safety factor - with a bus, you should be safe anywhere in the body in an accident. Bus bodies are built to carry people inside. Box trucks aren't. I'm sure its possible to build a body that would be considerably more durable and safe then the standard cargo box, it's just a question of where you want to spend your time - building the outside, or building the inside.
There is far more to crash safety than just the body. The interior matters a great deal too. If you're not strapped in place properly with a 3 point (or better) seat belt, you're likely at risk of being a projectile too. I don't think many(any?) of our conversions take that sort of impact into consideration when building them out.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mekanic View Post
The only buses I'd consider are 15-20 years old.
I'd avoid like the plague:
ALL C-2 Freightliners. (too many computers, Modules, other failure points)
Any bus with a Mercedes-Benz Diesel Engine. (Look up EOS code)
any bus WITHOUT a air-ride rear axle
ANY Bus with 22.5 wheels and hyd brakes. (Air brakes work 10 times better AND they are far cheaper for parts)
I have to say, the first bus I fixated on was a 2007 C2 with the MB engine and hydraulic brakes. I'm really glad the skoolie community steered me away from that disaster (I suppose it at least had the air-ride rear suspension). It helped that one Thomas mechanic I met in person told me he wouldn't take a C2 for free.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
I have to say, the first bus I fixated on was a 2007 C2 with the MB engine and hydraulic brakes. I'm really glad the skoolie community steered me away from that disaster (I suppose it at least had the air-ride rear suspension). It helped that one Thomas mechanic I met in person told me he wouldn't take a C2 for free.
The best online info about bus reliability is School Bus Fleet. There's a forum there and you can find out what real drivers and service folks say about various buses. The C2 and Vista are two that get a lot of complaints on there.
https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_In_MA View Post
To me, there are two main differences : The layout, and the safety factor.

With a bus, you've essentially got the full length of the body for living space. Get a 40-foot bus, and you've essentially got an 8x40 rectangle to play with. You can move around in that rectangle at will, at any time. It's all the same space. You might normally be wearing a seatbelt in a designated seat, but you could take it off, wander back to the bathroom, grab something from the fridge, etc. etc. Everything is one room.

With a truck, you've got 2 sections - there's the cab, and then there's the room in the box in the back. A lot of the time, the two are not connected. First, that means that you can't just wander to the box to grab something from the living quarters while driving down the highway. You've got to pull over and stop. Second, It also means that all your passengers are stuck together IN the truck cab while driving. Not that it's automatically a problem, but you will have everyone in a confined space for the duration of the driving. Having the box separated from the cab also means that you lose the length that the cab takes up. You've got 6 or 7 feet of truck that you're not really using (Though you could do an over-the-cab sleeper and re-gain some of that space.)

There's also the safety factor - with a bus, you should be safe anywhere in the body in an accident. Bus bodies are built to carry people inside. Box trucks aren't. I'm sure its possible to build a body that would be considerably more durable and safe then the standard cargo box, it's just a question of where you want to spend your time - building the outside, or building the inside.

After that, I think the levels of customization are about the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazdconfsd View Post
There is far more to crash safety than just the body. The interior matters a great deal too. If you're not strapped in place properly with a 3 point (or better) seat belt, you're likely at risk of being a projectile too. I don't think many(any?) of our conversions take that sort of impact into consideration when building them out.


Thats kinda where i was torn, i was looking shorter but yes a 30ft bus you get all that 30ft plus whatever you want to add on. the box truck only has soo much frame rail to work with or even safely extend.

i would do a cab pass through of some sort, which now you have to look at how bad its gonna leak. With the truck its a 4 door so benches 6 seatbelts, lets call it 4 swivel seats at the end of the day your back to factory saftey specs. a bus would need seating factored in for sure. i see the bus more unsafe then the truck all said and done.


ROOF RAISE QUESTION

im 6'2" most busses are a 6'4" ceiling... thats not a ton of room

a truck ovb you set whatever ceiling height. but were talking building a house from scratch, whats the workload vs a gutted bus and a roof raise? almost further ahead to start from scratch.
but has anyone left the roof and done maybe a simple bump up/out for the roof above the main area, lets say the kitchen. notching out where the roof starts to curve and framing a 90* for 5-8ft? hallway/passage side vs over the cooktop?
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:13 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
The best online info about bus reliability is School Bus Fleet. There's a forum there and you can find out what real drivers and service folks say about various buses. The C2 and Vista are two that get a lot of complaints on there.
https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/
I have to second that.

Many of the contributors are bus fleet managers. Probably one of the best sources for first hand experience with modern buses.
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willsmusicbus View Post
Thats kinda where i was torn, i was looking shorter but yes a 30ft bus you get all that 30ft plus whatever you want to add on. the box truck only has soo much frame rail to work with or even safely extend.

i would do a cab pass through of some sort, which now you have to look at how bad its gonna leak. With the truck its a 4 door so benches 6 seatbelts, lets call it 4 swivel seats at the end of the day your back to factory saftey specs. a bus would need seating factored in for sure. i see the bus more unsafe then the truck all said and done.


ROOF RAISE QUESTION

im 6'2" most busses are a 6'4" ceiling... thats not a ton of room

a truck ovb you set whatever ceiling height. but were talking building a house from scratch, whats the workload vs a gutted bus and a roof raise? almost further ahead to start from scratch.
but has anyone left the roof and done maybe a simple bump up/out for the roof above the main area, lets say the kitchen. notching out where the roof starts to curve and framing a 90* for 5-8ft? hallway/passage side vs over the cooktop?
I already have a diesel truck with a 20' van body - it cost me less than the same sized shipping container and it drives fine, but we use it for storage - I keep thinking how easy it would be to convert to a camper, then compare the expected result to a converted skoolie - the truck conversion would be quick and easy, but would lack the garage I want, access would involve climbing a set of stairs as it's likely too high for an easy to use loading ramp, and the aluminum box would look like the crumpled tin foil from a package of cigarettes after an accident - a school bus body is about as safe as a rig that size can get because of the steel used and arched supports - a schoolie allows many more innovations like slideouts and luggage compartments, a driver's area that is a usable part of the camper/mini home/tiny house 'complex' - and personally, I can get a bus that is long enough to have a 10' or 11' garage, and still have a decent sized camper, and it's low enough to make good use of a loading ramp
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by willsmusicbus View Post
Thats kinda where i was torn, i was looking shorter but yes a 30ft bus you get all that 30ft plus whatever you want to add on. the box truck only has soo much frame rail to work with or even safely extend.

i would do a cab pass through of some sort, which now you have to look at how bad its gonna leak. With the truck its a 4 door so benches 6 seatbelts, lets call it 4 swivel seats at the end of the day your back to factory saftey specs. a bus would need seating factored in for sure. i see the bus more unsafe then the truck all said and done.
Just a note, I found the rear Ford Transit bench seats relatively easy to retrofit to my bus once the locating pin in the stock seat rails was knocked out. The rails are otherwise flat and easily bolted through a floor or welded to it for security and you'd then have what I'd consider a safe seat/seatbelt combo.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
I already have a diesel truck with a 20' van body - it cost me less than the same sized shipping container and it drives fine, but we use it for storage - I keep thinking how easy it would be to convert to a camper, then compare the expected result to a converted skoolie - the truck conversion would be quick and easy, but would lack the garage I want, access would involve climbing a set of stairs as it's likely too high for an easy to use loading ramp, and the aluminum box would look like the crumpled tin foil from a package of cigarettes after an accident - a school bus body is about as safe as a rig that size can get because of the steel used and arched supports - a schoolie allows many more innovations like slideouts and luggage compartments, a driver's area that is a usable part of the camper/mini home/tiny house 'complex' - and personally, I can get a bus that is long enough to have a 10' or 11' garage, and still have a decent sized camper, and it's low enough to make good use of a loading ramp
school bus fleet is a great page, read through many of threads on different engines bodys etc...

i keep thinking how much easier it would be to do a box truck. its like starting from scratch with a fresh set of directions vs picking up someone else's project with half the directions missing. but then yall wonderful people bring up good points i wouldnt think of until i get there, like the fact that the bod sits up so high. thats a good point! you would need a solid set of stairs and thats alot of up and down and limited access to any storage at the top of your build. even simple things like an awning or deck would be feet higher than the tallest skoolie.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willsmusicbus View Post
school bus fleet is a great page, read through many of threads on different engines bodys etc...

i keep thinking how much easier it would be to do a box truck. its like starting from scratch with a fresh set of directions vs picking up someone else's project with half the directions missing. but then yall wonderful people bring up good points i wouldnt think of until i get there, like the fact that the bod sits up so high. thats a good point! you would need a solid set of stairs and thats alot of up and down and limited access to any storage at the top of your build. even simple things like an awning or deck would be feet higher than the tallest skoolie.
A lot of box trucks have real chintzy fiber roofs. I don't dig that much.
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