!!!CHP is riding me seven years later! Need Vehicle Code help!!

[jibronee]

I bought a 68' ford superior school bus back in 2008/2009. It's all original; been painted once while in service. I went to DMV and CHP Truck division before I bought it and they both confirmed it's ok for me to personally own a yellow school bus (23' long) and use it personally, not for hire/limo stuff. Well someone turned me in saying I was for hire because they found a pic on facebook with a few friends in front of my bus. Now the Motor Division of CHP tried to bust me for 1) "using a school bus w/o a school contract and 2) providing tours w/o "PUC" authority. I proved to the official that I was not doing any of the above, and won. But he said rules are changing in Calif in 2016 and he needs to still inspect my bus for how many seats, vin verification, etc. He also said I can not have a yellow school bus.

For any that don't know, you can register your commercial vehicle for private/personal use only under VC 27603.

When I purchased my bus, I found in the CA Vehicle Code book stating that I am exempt because my bus is pre 1970. Well, I can not find that code anymore and I do not want to ruin/change my original paint color bus. I also have a 61' chevy wayne 20' long that is hammered that I do have to paint, so this is were I will spend my $$ and time. Does anyone have this VC handy? My eyes are popping out from reading all that fine print page after page!!!

Thanks in advance for any info!!!! Has anyone ran into any prob's with the CHP/etc with an original color/condition vintage school bus in Calif?

Thanks!!!

[CaptainInsaneo]

Who did you pissoff that they would turn you in for that?

[family wagon]

Is there any potential angle involving calling it "antique" or "vintage" or some such thing? Other vehicle equipment is given a pass based on the vehicle age (seat belts for example). Maybe there's a way to classify it such that it qualifies for a color exemption?

[Dragonpop]

I would tell them that it has been grandfathered in since it has been licensed
and run that way for over six years. Three years is standard statute of limitations.
When the inspector comes out demand he show you his oath of office and proof
of a bond. The U.S. Supreme Court says all public employees must have an oath of office as proper identification, without an oath of office and a bond he's personally liable and I wouldn't allow him on my property. If he's working for the city of_____ then he's just a corporate employee and not any kind of government agent. Trying
to use color of law against you, which really isn't law or lawful.

[jibronee]

Family Wagon, that's exactly what I'm asking is for someone who knows the vehicle code exempting me, because of age, from not having to paint my bus.

Capt Insaneo, I think it's probably another limo company that turned me in thinking I was cutting in on their business. Plus the commercial motor guy said he has a friend that just bought a bus and I'm sure he's a limo bus. Commercial motor guy won't answer any of my questions via email; just ignores them and calls me saying that he wants to inspect my bus. It's very fishy.

Dragonpop, I know he's not a peace officer. No badge what's so ever and dresses in plain clothes. He's just a guy doing inspections,etc for the chp truck/commercial division.

[REDD]

Can you put decals on both sides/rear of your bus stating...
"PERSONAL USE ONLY/NOT FOR HIRE" ?

[jibronee]

I could but don't know if it would do any good. The rep is being very suspicious in what he is looking for. He won't send me any paper work or email me his list of what he needs to check. He told me vin verify, insurance and registration. Needs to count the seats, which I told him I take some out when I'm camping, etc. He just hasn't made it clear as to what he is looking for; like he's doing it on the side/after hours.

[family wagon]

Maybe you could put on the prominent "not for hire" signage in such a way that the other limo guy will be sure to notice it, then go quiet on this CHP guy and test whether he just goes away.

[CaptainInsaneo]

Are you in the commercial transport business, not with you school bus but with other vehicles?

Also if they don't have a badge AND any type of writ of authority they can pound sand until they come back with something official and verifiable. This is true of police too. A badge isn't enough, with out a writ or probable cause it is still just harassment. If you have an attorney, I would suggest they take up any questions with them. "Grandfathered in" is a nicety and are not irrevocable, just because you had rights to something does not mean that you always will.

I would also put vinyl decals on the doors that say private coach: not for hire. Yellow paint doesn't sound like the hill to stand and fight on IMO.

[crazycal]

For any that don't know, you can register your commercial vehicle for private/personal use only under VC 27603.

Not sure what you read but the code you cite doesn't state what you wrote.

V C Section 27603 Color Required for Former Schoolbus

Color Required for Former Schoolbus

27603. When a motor vehicle formerly used as a schoolbus is sold to any person and is used exclusively for purposes other than the transportation of pupils pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 39830) of Chapter 5 of Part 23 of the Education Code, it shall be painted by the purchaser a color different than that prescribed by the Department of the California Highway Patrol for schoolbuses before it is operated on any street or highway other than to have the vehicle painted or moved to a place of storage.
The provisions of this section shall not apply where the ownership of a schoolbus is transferred to a nonprofit organization under a contractual arrangement under which the ownership is required to be retransferred to the original owner within 90 days of the date of the original transfer.

Amended Ch. 676, Stats. 1980. Effective January 1, 1981.

I have been in the transportation biz in California since 1984. I pay through the nose for everything especially insurance. If I KNOW someone is operating illegally, I WILL RAT THEM OUT, if I have the time. Mainly because I know they are not carrying proper insurance. I only tell you this because I want you to know where I am coming from.

That being said, I will go off of what you said that you are not transporting for hire. I would write a letter to the Motor Carrier Dude and send it certified, registered or whatever they call it with a return receipt. Also find out who is his superior is and copy him. In the letter, ask exactly what he wants, what vehicle codes give him the authority to inspect a private vehicle and why he has chosen you for his butt sniffing expedition. Ask how he specifically singled you out and why. Tell him that you want all communication in writing. Tell him that you will not discuss this matter over the phone until answers your questions in writing. State the you will take this up the chain of command until you receive satisfaction and you feel that you are being singled out for harassment.

That is where I would start. Now if you were fibbing about the for hire thing, you are on your own. No more help from me.

[ol trunt]

More info for you. It all starts with the Feds dictating school bus colors etc with the states being required to implement same. There is no provision to "grand father in" any former school buses as to color as you will see. The federal highway safety program is out to get you as is the Ca code of regulations Title 13, and the Ca vehicle code 34508. That's why my 1935 Chevy skoolie isn't school bus yellow. Hope this helps.

Calif has adopted the federal school bus recommendations found here: http://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsa/whatsup/t...sportation.htm.

Go to IV
B
2

These recommendations were accepted by the state as outlined here: (about 1/4 way down the page)
https://archive.org/stream/ca.ccr.13/ca.ccr.13_djvu.txt. and-----

The CHP is given authority to adopt these regs via the ca vehicle code 34508

http://www.oclaw.org/research/code/c...l#.VjGRjrerS1s

[family wagon]

crazycal, those are interesting points about trying to get rid of Mr. Motor Carrier Division. I once had a run-in with those folks in Utah -- it started with a business card from some guy in the compliance department or something. He left it poked under the door at my house (the situs address on the vehicle registration) with "call me about your bus operation" written on the back.

In my case the whole thing came about because my bus sat broken down on the side of a two-lane state highway, just off the interstate, for two days when the injection pump died. It looked very much like a bus at that point and because it didn't have any motor carrier registration numbers they wanted to follow up and be sure I wasn't running a transport operation improperly. In his line of work, a commercial-ish looking vehicle sitting abandoned on the side of the road has "improperly maintained, inspected, and registered" written all over it! It took a few more days for me to work up the nerve to call the guy back but in my case it went well. I convinced him it was strictly personal and never heard from him again.

Keep it nice and civil -- if you annoy Mr. Motor Carrier too much he might find a way to cause you trouble just out of spite.

[CaptainInsaneo]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

That's why my 1935 Chevy skoolie isn't school bus yellow. Hope this helps.

How many people even can tell that it was a school bus anymore?

Also the "School Bus Yellow" is a very specific yellow, which is defined by law. I wonder if you could just paint it canary yellow or a really light orange.

I still reiterate my point of the color of your bus isn't something to get in a fight over, especially a fight you probably won't win.

Follow Cals advice and jump through those hoops and go from there, it seems like solid advice. Chase the magic pixies away with good old fashioned bureaucratic paper trails.

Good luck

[jibronee]

Can codes change over the years? This VC is what the dmv gave me. That's amazing that dmv and chp saw my bus, years ago, and approved/allowed me to leave it yellow. I do remember seeing a code stating that buses pre 1970 were exempt from the color change. Does this ring a bell with you?

I have asked him to answer my questions via email, three times now, and he does not. He calls. His last email to me was "I can not give you anything official until it is complete". It being the inspection of my bus for the upcoming possible changes in 2016, so he tells me.

During our first phone conversation he said he had a flier of mine advertising my bus for rent and was adamant that I was for hire. When I asked him to email it to me, he said he couldn't. So I went into the chp truck division and asked for him to see if this guy was for real. He came out, was a very nice older guy, almost ready to retire he told me; and brought out the flier. It was some pic of a few friends in front of my bus that was taken off facebook. I was dumbfounded because he said he had a flier advertising my bus for rent; I didn't know if he was serious or what? This whole thing is weird. I think I will go back into headquarters and bring all emails and show his supervisor what I have been dealing with.

thanks for advice

[jibronee]

Hey Capt, I agree with you that the color is something not to argue about, but it's so weird that I've been cruising this yellow bus for 8 years+ now and it wasn't until they thought I was a limo that they're after me for color change now. The moto carrier guy told me it just had to be a non school bus yellow. I asked if I could add metallic/sparkle to it and he said yes, as long as it does not look like a current school bus. The chp truck div actual officer (8+yrs ago) told me that I had to paint my bus a non school bus yellow if i decided to do a limo business, but that if was fine for personal/private use. That is why I bought the bus; because it was all original, dirtier than dirty, but I saw the potential in her, plus she came out of the area I grew up in. I have since met one driver of her from 70-72. He said that driving my bus was the first job he got out of college. He had driven my bus all over Cali, SF GGBridge, LA DisneyLand, San Diego, etc. Tons of field trips. I met him at a vintage trailer campout i took the bus to, pulling my 56' camping trailer. I talked him into driving her around the rv park, and an hour and a half later we finally stopped. He was thrilled to drive her again! We'll see what happens.

[CaptainInsaneo]

Ok so I read the vehicle and education codes I am no lawyer but, as best as I can tell. If you bought the bus after 1981, you HAD 90 days from when ownership was transferred (any transfer of ownership) to paint a non School Bus Yellow color. So you were allowed to register a SBY former school bus but you can't keep it SBY. If I understand what have read. Who ever told you it was ok was probably just wrong or not completely informed. I am actually shocked this isn't a more common problem.

However it seems that if the bus was NOT a former school bus (never owned by any entity that was authorized to transport pupils as laid out in part 23 chapter 5 article 3 in the education code) you could in theory paint it SBY as the law only applies to former school busses, good luck with keeping all that paperwork in line. Also the color is set by fiat from the CHP. If you actually go read education code part 23 chapter 5 article 3, If the CHP said school busses need to be lime green it would be the law of California, although I am sure there are internal protocols with checks and balances to keep that from happening. Also there is fascinating stuff in that section of the education code as to what can happen in states of emergency as declared by the president.

Can they change codes? yes; do they? no, not often. When they do is when they have to state if something is retroactively applied or not. If it is not stated then well the new law applies to you. Look at the seat belt law It expressly lays out the exemptions about pre 1962 vehicles. However you can not drive a passenger that needs restraint in a carseat, booster seat or basically any child under 13 in a pre 1962 without seat belts as the activity of unrestrained children riding in a car are not exempted and are governed by a different law.

Most of the legal get arounds and ways to less hassle with enforcement is to get retitled as a motorhome or house car. Which does give you certain protections, only because it is specifically written into laws. Is your rig titled as an RV?

I am guessing the reason you cant find anything written about the loophole is because I don't think the loophole exists, at least not in CA.

The fact they haven't bothered you sooner is well quite sad really. As it shows how easy it is for a bright yellow school bus to slip through the cracks. They probably wanted to see if you were trying to transport students without a contract, insurance, CHILD RESTRAINTS... all that mandated jazz. You know to hit you with mad fines more than a simple color violation.

[crazycal]

Originally Posted by Dragonpop

I would tell them that it has been grandfathered in since it has been licensed
and run that way for over six years. Three years is standard statute of limitations.
When the inspector comes out demand he show you his oath of office and proof
of a bond. The U.S. Supreme Court says all public employees must have an oath of office as proper identification, without an oath of office and a bond he's personally liable and I wouldn't allow him on my property. If he's working for the city of_____ then he's just a corporate employee and not any kind of government agent. Trying
to use color of law against you, which really isn't law or lawful.

That line of thinking will get you a one way ticket to the big house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Freemen

[crazycal]

Can codes change over the years? This VC is what the dmv gave me. That's amazing that dmv and chp saw my bus, years ago, and approved/allowed me to leave it yellow. I do remember seeing a code stating that buses pre 1970 were exempt from the color change. Does this ring a bell with you?

Did you even bother to read the code to begin with? Do codes change? Sure they do. CA Penal Code 187 is murder. Last week it was no watering your lawn on Sundays and the week before that it was no open carry in a Starbucks unless you are wearing a pink tutu and a cowboy hat.

[Kubla]

paint black spots on it and label it the cheetah bus ;)

[CaptainInsaneo]

Originally Posted by Kubla

paint black spots on it and label it the cheetah bus ;)

No officer it is a BLACK bus with yellow patches.