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Old 01-06-2009, 11:23 PM   #1
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Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Somebody PLEASE on schoolbusconversionnuts
"it would help if you said more. like for instance if they are air
brakes or hydraulic etc.
to make EXPEDIENT repairs just cut the line where it's leaking, slip
on a tight fitting piece of rubber hose and double hose clamp ( two one
each side=4 ). this repair works well for ANY rigid lines. for leaking
HOSE just cut at the leak, insert tight fitting tube and double hose
clamp."

PLEASE go on there and make that GO AWAY !!!!!!!!!!
EXTREME DANGER
HOLY COW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Never fix a hydraulic brake line that way NEVER EVER !!!!!!!!!

I am an Interprovincial Journeyman Mechanic..... I work for our school division full time on Busses and do provincial SCHOOL BUS inspections for government Insurance.
This is ILLEGAL, DANGEROUS and just plain WRONG.
If you got pulled over and that repair was spotted you would be pulled off the road.....
If your get in an accident you are SCREWED
PLEASE make ARKY take it back !!!!!!!!!
I would but I'm banned
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:32 PM   #2
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

If your banned why are you even over there?

I'm sure Arky will take care of it, he's god and knows everything (or so he thinks)
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:40 PM   #3
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillbus914
If your banned why are you even over there?

I'm sure Arky will take care of it, he's god and knows everything.
I had it relayed to me by someone who wanted to know if it was a good idea. I cannot make an account there to protest this advice because my IP is banned or something. I pissed him off 5 years ago(feb 04 ), and was never forgiven I guess. ARKY better take care of it ....... it is his advice.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:54 AM   #4
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
"it would help if you said more. like for instance if they are air
brakes or hydraulic etc.
to make EXPEDIENT repairs just cut the line where it's leaking, slip
on a tight fitting piece of rubber hose and double hose clamp ( two one
each side=4 ). this repair works well for ANY rigid lines. for leaking
HOSE just cut at the leak, insert tight fitting tube and double hose
clamp.
That is the same repair technique I have been using for 25 years on many types of high or low pressure lines, fuel lines etc..etc.. I have made it home many times with that repair and carry small bits of hose, tubing and a ring of hose clamps as part of my kit when I travel or go off-roading. On some applications such as a fuel line that type of temporary repair works so well that it becomes a permanent repair.

I don't like Arky's attitude either and I haven't bothered reading his website since about the second day after discovering this website but that is the same advice I would give anyone. Double clamp each side after inserting a rigid piece of tubing or after sliding a short piece of hose over the troubled area and enjoy the rest of your camp trip or road trip. It works for me.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:07 PM   #5
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

I was also sent a link somebody sent there from a vw group or something where the guy used compression fittings on a brake line. This is also unacceptable . For insurance purposes.....and fear of not being pulled off the road and towed, ALL connections in a brake system MUST be double flared. It is the LAW, everywhere period. If there's any interest I can bring home my inspection manual and list all the don'ts, but the last thing anybody here needs is a brake failure in a 20k bus...kill somebody or permanently maim somebody and have insurance throw you out. If you want to fix your own brake lines, It is not hard, the parts are not expensive, the tools are not unaffordable, and you will sleep better at night knowing you did it right. Compare the cost of a major screw up to the cost of a repair. Even a $200 roadside repair done properly is cheaper than an on road accident. And NEVER tell somebody that doesn't know better ,how to do a job wrong, they may believe that it is OK to do it like that, or leave it "till next payday" or "the one after" and forget it . Enough screw ups like that and we will all end up with mandatory inspections or something.

Anyone smart enough to listen is probably not going to reply to him, but the ones that don't know better may actually stick a piece of rubber hose on a line and kill somebody.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:09 PM   #6
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

snip
Quote:
That is the same repair technique I have been using for 25 years on many types of high or low pressure lines, fuel lines etc..etc.. I have made it home many times with that repair and carry small bits of hose, tubing and a ring of hose clamps as part of my kit when I travel or go off-roading. On some applications such as a fuel line that type of temporary repair works so well that it becomes a permanent repair.

I don't like Arky's attitude either and I haven't bothered reading his website since about the second day after discovering this website but that is the same advice I would give anyone. Double clamp each side after inserting a rigid piece of tubing or after sliding a short piece of hose over the troubled area and enjoy the rest of your camp trip or road trip. It works for me.
for fuel lines and other low pressure lines yes, but for a brake line NEVER.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:33 PM   #7
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

I have used the compression fitting many times for brake lines. Yes I know they are not exactly legal but that said I have never had a problem with one failing and if you ask me it is a better connection than a legally crimped brake hose on to a steel line.

I haven't done the hose over the lines and clamp on brakes but have done that for power steering or transmission lines. I have heard of the hose repair for brake lines though just never done it. If I did it would be to get me to a parts store where I can get what I need. I have used vise grips to crimp a flex line going to a caliper that decided to leak. Keep in mind this was a temporary solution to get to a repair garage. I would not recommend for anyone to do what I have done and it is done at their own risk.

Some of these things that are illegal today used to be common practice many years ago and were legal to do. It wasn't until someone discover one of these fixes and made it illegal.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:43 PM   #8
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick78EFI460
snip
Quote:
That is the same repair technique I have been using for 25 years on many types of high or low pressure lines, fuel lines etc..etc.. I have made it home many times with that repair and carry small bits of hose, tubing and a ring of hose clamps as part of my kit when I travel or go off-roading. On some applications such as a fuel line that type of temporary repair works so well that it becomes a permanent repair.

I don't like Arky's attitude either and I haven't bothered reading his website since about the second day after discovering this website but that is the same advice I would give anyone. Double clamp each side after inserting a rigid piece of tubing or after sliding a short piece of hose over the troubled area and enjoy the rest of your camp trip or road trip. It works for me.
for fuel lines and other low pressure lines yes, but for a brake line NEVER.
Fair enough. However I have used that same repair on hydraulic brake lines a few times over the years with no issues. If I were stuck off-road, or on the side of the road or close to home I would use a similar repair to carefully move the vehicle a short distance to where I needed to be to do the job properly. I would certainly strengthen and carefully test the repair if the technique were to be used on a brake line. It is not "by the book" but for me it is a practical and proven emergency repair that can be used by those that are only smart enough to get the job done. As stated above I have learned over the years to carry the parts needed for that exact repair with me when I go off-road or plan to put on lots of highway miles.
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:50 PM   #9
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

The advice Arky gave is ok for repairs on systems running less than 20 PSI. Above that and other measures must be taken. For instance, I have fixed many tranmission cooler lines (mostly on GM products) by using barb fittings, transmission cooler hose (rated for the temp, pressure, and chemical content of ATF), and high pressure clamps (not the cheap little screw type ones). The trick there is to put a small single flare on the hard line, slip the line on, and place the clamp close to the flare. This prevents it from slipping.

Similarly, I will do the same repair on fuel lines, but with fuel rated hose. I tend to use the high pressure rated (fuel injection hose) stuff on anything over 10 psi. Call me paranoid, but it doesn't fail.

Cooling systems typically run under 20 psi so you can use barbed fittings and clamps on those. Heck, that's how the hoses attach to the radiator in the first place.

Power steering lines are a little different. I will not make a hackjob repair on the high pressure side. I will only use professional hydraulic hoses. I would sooner cut the hose, loop it back into the reservoir, and fill the system leaving me without power assist than have a dodgey repair that could unexpectedly let loose. The return side, on the other hand, is low pressure so transmission cooler line, small flares, and clamps work fine for that.

For air lines I use DOT approved compression fittings. I think this is acceptable more because the compressor could theoretically compensate for leaks and the system is fail safe rather than the fact that the fittings are so great.

For hydraulic brakes I will plug the line at the nearest available joint rather than use a compression fitting. Again, I would rather drive cautiously knowing that I am lacking braking power than risk having the line fail. Having even a front caliper capped off will yield surprisingly good brakes compared to loosing a quick fix and pumping out fluid every time I hit the brakes. Modern master cylinders might be redundant, but it isn't pretty losing a circuit, even in a diagonally split system.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:19 PM   #10
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick78EFI460
snip
Quote:
That is the same repair technique I have been using for 25 years on many types of high or low pressure lines, fuel lines etc..etc.. I have made it home many times with that repair and carry small bits of hose, tubing and a ring of hose clamps as part of my kit when I travel or go off-roading. On some applications such as a fuel line that type of temporary repair works so well that it becomes a permanent repair.

I don't like Arky's attitude either and I haven't bothered reading his website since about the second day after discovering this website but that is the same advice I would give anyone. Double clamp each side after inserting a rigid piece of tubing or after sliding a short piece of hose over the troubled area and enjoy the rest of your camp trip or road trip. It works for me.
for fuel lines and other low pressure lines yes, but for a brake line NEVER.
Fair enough. However I have used that same repair on hydraulic brake lines a few times over the years with no issues. If I were stuck off-road, or on the side of the road or close to home I would use a similar repair to carefully move the vehicle a short distance to where I needed to be to do the job properly. I would certainly strengthen and carefully test the repair if the technique were to be used on a brake line. It is not "by the book" but for me it is a practical and proven emergency repair that can be used by those that are only smart enough to get the job done. As stated above I have learned over the years to carry the parts needed for that exact repair with me when I go off-road or plan to put on lots of highway miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmah
I have used the compression fitting many times for brake lines. Yes I know they are not exactly legal but that said I have never had a problem with one failing and if you ask me it is a better connection than a legally crimped brake hose on to a steel line.

I haven't done the hose over the lines and clamp on brakes but have done that for power steering or transmission lines. I have heard of the hose repair for brake lines though just never done it. If I did it would be to get me to a parts store where I can get what I need. I have used vise grips to crimp a flex line going to a caliper that decided to leak. Keep in mind this was a temporary solution to get to a repair garage. I would not recommend for anyone to do what I have done and it is done at their own risk.

Some of these things that are illegal today used to be common practice many years ago and were legal to do. It wasn't until someone discover one of these fixes and made it illegal.

i cannot believe what I am reading here RUBBER LINE on HYDRAULIC BRAKE LINES? and claiming you have done this and it worked?!! no, for air brakes ok I'll believe that, but the best rubber hose anyone is going to be carrying is not going to be rated any higher than 150 psi and the clamps will not hold any more than that, hydraulic brake systems run more than 3,000 psi the only emergency fix is to completely block the line and maintain pressure to the rest of your system and that should be done only long enough to get to help, I've seen people attempt copper line as a "temp" fix it split the entire lentgh of the line the first application after the vehicle was started, proper parts or no parts when it comes to hydraulic brakes
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:33 PM   #11
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
i cannot believe what I am reading here RUBBER LINE on HYDRAULIC BRAKE LINES? and claiming you have done this and it worked?!! no
It looks like you are saying you don't think it would work in an emergency but have no idea if it really would work or not based on you're opinion. Whatever you think is fine with me. I will stick with what I have seen work and I will continue to carry a small kit of parts for just such an emergency repair.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:37 PM   #12
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_experience03
For hydraulic brakes I will plug the line at the nearest available joint rather than use a compression fitting.
Yeah, isolating a brake or an axle is another emergency repair that will get you off the side of the highway and to somewhere that proper repairs can be made. Been there and done that to.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:10 PM   #13
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:


i cannot believe what I am reading here RUBBER LINE on HYDRAULIC BRAKE LINES? and claiming you have done this and it worked?!! no, for air brakes ok I'll believe that, but the best rubber hose anyone is going to be carrying is not going to be rated any higher than 150 psi and the clamps will not hold any more than that, hydraulic brake systems run more than 3,000 psi the only emergency fix is to completely block the line and maintain pressure to the rest of your system and that should be done only long enough to get to help, I've seen people attempt copper line as a "temp" fix it split the entire length of the line the first application after the vehicle was started, proper parts or no parts when it comes to hydraulic brakes
You and me both !!! I cannot believe this.

I'm gettin a better understanding why skoolies are hard to find insurance for.

I'm starting to understand the people who think annual inspections should be mandatory

I'm gettin scared to go outside

I don't like it at all...A skoolie is a great DIY project that can command the respect and admiration of others. but DIY is not a license to do things half assed or stupid. DIY is great BUT the implication is that you DIY PROPERLY. The actual cost of doing it right is no more than it costs to do it wrong, but the rewards of doing it right are pride in a job well done , and a reasonable expectation of safety for all . If you want to save the money by doing it yourself , buy the tool and use it. A roll of steel tube and a few connectors will fit in your kit too.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:22 PM   #14
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
It looks like you are saying you don't think it would work in an emergency but have no idea if it really would work or not based on you're opinion. Whatever you think is fine with me. I will stick with what I have seen work and I will continue to carry a small kit of parts for just such an emergency repair.
C'mon here you're driving a 20k lb bus !!!!!!!!
If your brakes don't work, get off the road and fix it right. Anyone driving any vehicle this size has a responsibility to do so safely. We all know what can happen if a bus hits a car, THEY DON"T DESERVE TO PAY THAT PRICE. Do it right or pay someone to do it right , you owe it to the rest of us on the road. Rubber hose repairs on hydraulic brake lines is not fixing it right in any way shape or form.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:40 PM   #15
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick78EFI460
If your breaks don't work, get off the road and fix it right. Anyone driving any vehicle this size has a responsibility to do so safely. We all know what can happen if a bus hits a car, THEY DON"T DESERVE TO PAY THAT PRICE. Do it right or pay someone to do it right , you owe it to the rest of us on the road. Rubber hose repairs on hydraulic brake lines is not fixing it right in any way shape or form.
I haven't seen anyone in the thread claim it was the correct repair except for maybe a fuel line. It is an effective (and proven) temporary repair that can get you off of the side of the road, out of the woods or to somewhere the repair can be done properly. And I don't owe anyone anything except Chrysler-Daimler and two mortgages.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:01 PM   #16
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick78EFI460
If your breaks don't work, get off the road and fix it right. Anyone driving any vehicle this size has a responsibility to do so safely. We all know what can happen if a bus hits a car, THEY DON"T DESERVE TO PAY THAT PRICE. Do it right or pay someone to do it right , you owe it to the rest of us on the road. Rubber hose repairs on hydraulic brake lines is not fixing it right in any way shape or form.
I haven't seen anyone in the thread claim it was the correct repair except for maybe a fuel line. It is an effective (and proven) temporary repair that can get you off of the side of the road, out of the woods or to somewhere the repair can be done properly. And I don't owe anyone anything except Chrysler-Daimler and two mortgages.

bull#### it will not survive one brake application, you may just as well let the proportioning valve to shut off the leaking end of the bus and nurse it off the road, which is the only way you ever got a rubber line to stay on an hydraulic brake repair, the failsafes had already shut off pressure to that end and your rubber line did absolutely nothing
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:03 PM   #17
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

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Originally Posted by bbbrt76
bull####
Whatever you think is fine with me. I will go with what I know.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:32 PM   #18
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

im all about safety 3rd, and even i am not crazy enough to try to use a rubber hose to fix a high pressure brake line, especially on a 20K pound bus! That is stupid and just plain dangerous.

most pressure rated items have a burst strength 3x their rated pressure. So that rubber fuel line in your toolbox rated for 100 psi will probably hold up to about 300 psi. No way will it stand up to 3000 pounds per square inch. And hose clamps? come on? There is no way they can safely withstand that sort of pressure. Even specially made high pressure fuel injection hose clamps are rated for pressures 30 times less than that of the pressure inside the brake lines.

DON'T DO IT!
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:49 PM   #19
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapeer20m
That is stupid and just plain dangerous.

DON'T DO IT!
I bet you will be the first one to try it the next time the need arises and you have to get back to civilization to get the parts to do it right. It works as a temporary solution.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:53 PM   #20
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Re: Dangerous and irresponsible advice

How about posing it a different way. What advantage does fixing it with hose have over capping the line? I know it's not cost because 4 clamps and a length of hose is going to cost as much as a double flare plug. Is it the tools? It takes a wrench to tighten clamps or to tighten a nut in. Is is the amount of time it takes? Possibly. I've had some lines that were a serious pain to break apart, but I've also had a heck of a time shimmying a hose on over parts before. I guess I just fail to see the advantage to the hose versus blocking off the line. I can't imagine how spongy that pedal is with soft hose on it. I upgraded from factory rubber lines to DOT stainless braided lines on my wheeling rig and couldn't believe the difference that made, let alone how soft a pedal must be with unreinforced rubber line.
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