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Old 06-08-2009, 10:29 PM   #1
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Re: Do you have concerns?

It's just a matter of time before older diesel engines are forced off the road. Drive now, be happy.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:28 AM   #2
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Re: Do you have concerns?

I don't worry about the environmental restrictions, as much as I do the paperwork angle. I have co-workers from Germany who tell me that my lifestyle would not be possible in their country because everyone is required by law to have a fixed residential address. On the other hand, the US has a large community of retired fulltimers...and given our vehicle-oriented lifestyle & economy it is hard to imagine marginalizing that voting block.

As for environmental regs...as long as the heavy trucking industry has a powerful lobby in our country, I think our buses will be safe. But I could be wrong.

On a related note, I burned a few hours this weekend looking at box trucks on ebay. Just daydreaming. But I DO like the idea of:
1. A conversion platform with flat surfaces and right angles (what ceiling curve?)
2. A living space separate from the driving area
3. A fiberglass shell.

Yeah, we lose the cool factor of a bus, and the steel frame & body. But the mind does wander....
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:04 AM   #3
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Re: Do you have concerns?

escapees rv has an address and mail service based in texas, their are also title/registration services based in the dakotas or somewhere in that because of favorable tax laws.

emission regulations are already here for diesel trucks and heavy construction equipment, research tier 3 and tier 4 diesel compliance for emissions.
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:29 AM   #4
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Re: Do you have concerns?

Smitty, All I can say is, these are scarey times we are in. One of the main reasons I bought my bus was for a bug out situatation. We have access to land a hundred miles from us (Inlaws) and if things really went south, be they natural or man made, I can load up the bus and be gone.
Of course in that situation there would not be any concerns for any regulations anyway. In the meantime and in slow order our rights are being stripped away and we are becoming a different nation. There being lost slowly so the majority of Americans won't notice. As long as it does not affect me personally, I don't care, Is the general mentality. Then all the sudden it does affect them and it's to late.
On a lighter note:
Why could'nt I just buy some carbon credits? There are companies and individuals who do this now. Check out Al Gores house in comparison to G.W. Bush's house, as to who has gone green. I hear Al buys credits. I'm sure others in government are cutting back as well.


http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/ ... houses.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ma ... sit-uk-g20
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:14 PM   #5
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Re: Do you have concerns?

I am not concerned. Emissions laws for vehicles are not retroactive. You can still run old 2 stroke engines in vehicles but just can't produce them for new vehicles. Boats, RVs and Busses are such a low number and impact on the overall carbon emissions that more than likely they would be the last on the list of vehicles to regulate farther than the current laws that are in effect. Power plants are a larger producer of greenhouse gasses, there are fewer of them and they stay in service alot longer than vehicles, these are what would be effected by new regulations and needed to be modified. Vehicles are pretty much self regulating due to the fact that there life cycle is relatively short so there is no need to make retroactive emission tiers on them, they will simply be at end of life and replaced by new vehicles that already meet current requirements. Very large construction equipment may be in the sights because their life cycle is also long due to the capital expenditures needed to purchase, lead time to build, they run many many hours per day and are used in an income producing envrionment which would help spread the costs of retrofitting. I believe that the regulations are good and warranted considering the overwhelming amount of scientific evidence with global warming and health factors that go along with emissions. Take one look at China, do we want North America to end up with the air pollution like they have and walk around the streets with masks on our faces? I do not believe that any regulator or scientist would argue that taking 1000 skoolies off of the road would help matters one bit.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:51 PM   #6
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Re: Do you have concerns?

Also, I don't think that our rights are being stirpped away per se. It seems that there are waaaaay too many special intrests in the USA and that is what is taking the rights away. They make more and more laws and spend more and more money on trying to appease and protect small pockets of individuals which in turn erodes away at the majorities intrests. Not saying that anyone of them is good or bad or that regulations should only be benficial to the majority (this isnt the correct forum to discuss it on anyways). Think about them all, you have hundreds of differing religions wanting their own rules placed on society, the ADA, equal housing opportunity, fair lending, HUB zone, 8A, MADD, anti tobacco, anti drug, pro marijuana, pro environmental, pro growth, anti growth, pro immigration, anti immigration, ACLU, NAACP, NRA, PETA, Green Peace, farming groups, commercial fishermen, recreational fishermen etc etc. Then you have the industry lobbyist and trade associations that want their way and they all throw alot of money at their issues. The problem is that they all have an agenda for better or worse that will in some way have a positive impact on some and a negative impact on others. Soon all of these regulations to make everyone happy start to cross over each other so they make more regulations and the snowball starts.
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:27 PM   #7
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Re: Do you have concerns?

I proudly live in the US, am a citizen and support our president and government. I'm in the top tax bracket and have no issues with paying taxes, I feel I get alot for my money. Not every politician is corrupt in fact I would venture to say that the majority are not. GM being guided by the government is not socialist, I will not argue this point, look at the true definition of what socialism is. If by your standards, GM is socialist then that in turn would make you socialist as well just by using your skoolie. You drive on roads that are built owned and maintained by the governement, in a true capitalist society they would be privately owned and you would pay a toll to travel. The state parks that many use, again owned and controlled by the government. Ever had to call the police or fire department? That would be socialist too by your standard. Did your children attend public school? The fact is that none of this is by definition socialist. There is alot of propaganda and bad information online that with a little diligence, can be disproved. As far as your vehicle having to pass emissions, it only has to meet the standards of the time it was produced so I don't see an issue. It's not like they force you to retrofit in order to meet current production standards. If there was no standard at the time of production, there never will be on a private vehicle.
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:57 PM   #8
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Re: Do you have concerns?

"Useful idiots".... You can't shoot them, and there is no sense in sending them to the re-education camps.....
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:18 AM   #9
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Re: Do you have concerns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamoo
I am not concerned. Emissions laws for vehicles are not retroactive.
I take it you aren't familiar with California's laws then? Remember...what's in California now can generally be accepted as being nationwide policy within 5 years or so. Diesel snap testing is what kills me because it is a test of the appearance of pollution, not actual production of pollution...
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:48 AM   #10
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Re: Do you have concerns?

emission laws and testing for heavy construction equipment is a reality in cali and more and more populated areas, if your engine doesn't meet the regs you either retrofit it or replace it. once they get the rules in place and start to enforce them it's only a matter of time until they expand the coverage of the laws.

iirc cali already does some sort of carbon credit trade for old iron hotrods.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:52 PM   #11
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Re: Do you have concerns?

If I'm not mistaken (and I'm not) The United Nations has taken over a large number of our national parks and historic sites in America. This is being done to protect the worlds heritage from distruction. The are specific bills already passed through our own government allowing this. We (the citizens) are not responsible enough to take care of things here. There are reasons a "Park Ranger" packs a glock .40 with 2 spare mags and dual handcuffs and has more authority than the local Sheriff. Do wrong in a Natl. Park and everything you have there (car, truck, camper, boat -whatever) in now the property of the U.S. Gov. No refund-no return.

And yes we do have to pay to travel the interstates. More and more states have or are in the proccess of putting in toll areas to travel the major hi-ways.

Smitty, No, my bus will not be very stealthy, but with my 12' wide plow on the front, toll booths and zombies will not be a problem reference a couple of my earliest posts
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:37 PM   #12
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Re: Do you have concerns?

The United Nations does not own or control our parks, fact check it all you want, this is not even remotely close to even being possible if you knew the structure and purpose of the UN. I don't know how you could call the national media propaganda and consider random websites and youtube videos as the gospel. You can find plenty of convincing vidoes and websites claiming 9/11 was a government conspiracy, AIDS was created by the military, the Pentagon plane crash and the Holocost never happened but it doesnt mean that it is true. There are many common sense reasons park rangers carry guns, I dont see why this is an issue. Its not like they can just take your RV or your possessions, there are very specific rights about illegal search and seisure and checks and balances in the court system to gurantee this right. As far as tolls, there are specific laws regarding their usage, they cant just randomly assess a toll on a road. If there is some sort of project that needs done such as a bridge that has no funding, then they will assess a toll until this is paid for, after this, the toll has to come down. There is a good example of this in Richmond VA about 15-20 years ago where they left a toll in place on either I95 or I64 long after the roadwork was paid back. They were forced to take the toll down and repay the profit they had made. You are seeing more toll roads and hotlanes built across the country that have tolls and these are privately owned and for profit, but it is setup like this at the get go. There are countries in the world with no government, no rules and complete freedom, many in Africa, doesn't look like a system I would want to be a part of. Travel to some third world countries or take a tour of S America. You would never complain about our form of government again. We live in one of the best countries in the world, I do not understand all of the animosity and hatred towards what we have and the opportunities afforded to us here.

Anyways, this is way off topic at this point. Ill agree to disagree and check back on this in 5 years to see what happens with the emissions on the skoolies. Maybe I'll be wrong, maybe not.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:44 PM   #13
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Re: Do you have concerns?

BTW, I do like the idea of a box truck as a conversion, basically would be a large class C? U-Haul is selling their old 89-90 Int'l 26' vans (24' floor) many with air ride rears. They all have 7.3L NA engines with 5spds. Would be perfect but the $$ for a used box truck is usually quite a bit more than an old school bus.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:53 PM   #14
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Re: Do you have concerns?

Your on point Kamoo, don't let the crazies get to you. Some people just don't get it. Paranoia induced by social inactivity, Or lack of bus. hehe! Maybe we should start a boxtruck.net........naw I think skoolies are the way to go and I'm gonna walk that talk again throughout the month of July across the west....again! RECYCLER
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:46 PM   #15
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Re: Do you have concerns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
I've spoken to enough people over the years to know when someone isn't willing to hear or see the truth, others aren't that far gone.
Smitty
Likewise. I really appreciate you incinuating that I am stupid or have a low IQ when you havent a clue about who I am.
That is a stupid list of inaccurate facts that do not even merit a response. If you would really like the answers to these "facts", they are all available online and in public record.

I'm done with this conversation, I have a bus that needs some attention before football season!
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Old 06-10-2009, 09:23 PM   #16
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Re: Do you have concerns?

"I've got bigger fish to fry" Shine on crazy diamonds. I think I'll move on to more fact based threads!
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:42 AM   #17
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Re: Do you have concerns?

You got it all figured out, I put it up here to boast. Among other things you obviously have little to no grasp on our current taxing system. Being in an upper bracket does not mean that you have alot or make a ton of money, there are more middle class people paying the highest percentage since it is based on AGI.

I would suggest that if you want to start an arguement that you at least have a fairly good understanding of your own view. Your questions posed show your complete lack of comprehension of your own conspiricy theory on 9/11 that you are arguing. Not only are the facts of this theory incorrect and disproven in their properly presented form, you have also managed to butcher them so bad that the theory would no longer even be remotely plausible. Im not here to educate you on something that you do not have a firm grasp of and I did not feel that rewriting your questions to correct your inaccuracies and be able to logically respond to them would be worth my time just so I could turn around and regurgitate a rebuttle that is easily found online. Maybe you should spend a little time brushing up on your own views and get a more thorough understanding of the inner workings of this before you start pointing fingers at someone else.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:56 AM   #18
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Re: Do you have concerns?

conspiracy people sure can be amusing. I wonder what kinds of things they could accomplish If only they used all of their wasted time effort and energy for something useful instead.

you forgot to mention that the moon landing was filmed in a disney studio! lol
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:59 PM   #19
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Re: Do you have concerns?

Kamoo - Sir, I've been in more countries than I care to remember(can only count to 11 without my toes) Being an Air Force brat, I have seen a lot of the world. England, Italy, Germany, Cyprus, France, Tailand, Veitnam, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, Yemen, Korea and Honduras (does Mexico and Canada count?)
You want third world? I have stood on the western mountains in Honduras. From that vista you can see Guatemala, Nicaragua and El Salvador and Honduras. Don't get much more third world than that. Did you know we had military and a base(Soto Cano) there? In fact I will be in Tonga next month for three weeks.
I can guaranty you that I love this country. My family has served this country in EVERY war since and including, WWII, and have them now in "The Stan and The Cat Box" Being with the Shefiff's Dept. I see a lot of information that is passed down from the Gov. that the public never hears about. But it's a moot point to most sheeple.

Ranger Authority:
I have not "heard" of this-I have been a part of it! A local Natl. Recreation Area. The beach area is closed to the public at 10P.M. A man with a friend were on the lake, drunk in his boat. Pulled onto the beach and started a campfire. Park Ranger called S.O. for back-up. Man was arrested for DUI/tresspassing/Interference. Jailed and boat,trailer and truck impounded to our (Sheriff) lot, where it was later taken to a Government lot. The Passenger was not arrested, but could also NOT drive the other guy's truck home. I personally heard the ranger say "well, that boat is ours now."

Toll Roads:
Our state is legislating towards toll roads on I-80 and others. Last I heard the interstate was not privatly owned. The reason that this is being concidered in the big drop in goverment funding. But then our infastructure is falling down around us everywhere.

National media propaganda:
You state the internet is filled with different views on things, but are not nesseccarily true. Do you take everything that you see and hear on CNN, Fox, CBS, NBC, etc. to be gospel? Ignorance is bliss-you must be a happy person

I did not say the UN own's our parks. They do govern how we run and protect them. The UN is not only about our Historic sites, they are into a lot of different things including the "global Education" of our children.

In 1972, our government signed the United Nations' World Heritage Treaty, a treaty that creates "World Heritage Sites" and Biosphere Reserves." Selected for their cultural, historical or natural significance, national governments are obligated to protect these landmarks under U.N. mandate.1 Since 1972, 68 percent of all U.S. national parks, monuments and preserves have been designated as World Heritage Sites.
Currently, the United States has 20 World Heritage Sites and 47 Biosphere Reserves encompassing 51 million acres - an area nearly the size of Colorado. The U.S. is required to regularly report to the U.N. on the status of its World Heritage Sites, specifically its "preservation and protection techniques and its efforts to encourage public awareness about cultural and national heritage."What is especially disturbing about U.N. World Heritage Site and Biosphere Reserve designations are that they can be made by the executive branch unilaterally without congressional approval. Under the terms of the World Heritage Treaty, the President doesn't need to consult anyone before placing U.S. territory under the thumb of the U.N.

On November 17, 2004 at UNESCO's headquarters in Paris, UNESCO signed a 26-page "Cooperation Agreement" with Microsoft Corporation to develop a "master curriculum (Syllabus)" for teacher training in information technologies based on standards, guidelines, benchmarks, and assessment techniques. The Agreement states that the Syllabus will "form the basis for deriving training content to be delivered to teachers," and "UNESCO will explore how to facilitate content development."

Anyway, I have spent to much time here. I will go back to talking buses. There are other Tin Foil Forums where this can be discussed. I will leave ya with a couple links to school up on. I know, it's all B.S.

http://www.un.org/Depts/Treaty
http://whc.unesco.org/en/conventiontext/
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/protected_areas/UN_list/
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/ed ... -gates.htm
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:14 PM   #20
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Re: Do you have concerns?

By the 1970s the National Park Service recognized that in order to protect visitors and park resources effectively, the service needed professional rangers dedicated to law enforcement, Emergency Medical Services, firefighting, and Search and Rescue. Although modern NPS Rangers in this specialty are primarily engaged in law enforcement duties, the many varied environments they work in may require these employees to be competent in a variety of public safety skills. These rangers wear the standard NPS uniform with the DOI Law Enforcement badge.
FYI-DOI=Dept. Of Interior
"Protection rangers" are Federal Law Enforcement Officers with broad authority to enforce federal and state laws within National Park Service sites. In units of the U.S. National Park System, law enforcement Rangers are the primary police agency; their services may be augmented by the U.S. Park Police, particularly in the Washington, DC and San Francisco metropolitan areas. The U.S. National Park Service also employs "Special Agents" who conduct more complex criminal investigations. Rangers, Agents and Park Police Officers receive extensive police training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and annual in-service and regular firearms training. According to Department of Justice statistics NPS Law Enforcement Rangers suffer the most number of felonious assaults, and the highest number of homicides of all federal law enforcement officers.

Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property
PART 1-GENERAL PROVISIONS

1.2 Applicability and scope.
(a) The regulations contained in this chapter apply to all persons entering, using, visiting, or otherwise within:

(1) The boundaries of federally owned lands and waters administered by the National Park Service;

(2) The boundaries of lands and waters administered by the National Park Service for public-use purposes pursuant to the terms of a written instrument;

(3) Waters subject to the jurisdiction of the United States located within the boundaries of the National Park System, including navigable waters and areas within their ordinary reach (up to the mean high water line in places subject to the ebb and flow of the tide and up to the ordinary high water mark in other places) and without regard to the ownership of submerged lands, tidelands, or lowlands;
Excerpt from RM9


Jurisdictional Status

3.1.1 Responsibilities of NPS

The ability of the United States to accept responsibility for law enforcement
activities occurring on Federal lands or within park boundaries is directly
related to the jurisdictional status of that land.

3.1.2 Criteria

Law enforcement authority on Federal land is directly related to:
The authority bestowed by Congress.
The laws applicable to an area.
The type of legislative jurisdiction exercised by the Federal government.

3.2 TYPES OF JURISDICTION

3.2.1 Exclusive Legislative Jurisdiction

The Federal government possesses all the authority of the State, subject only to
the right of the State to serve criminal and civil process for actions occurring
outside the unit. Law enforcement must be provided by the United States since
State law may not be enforced by a State officer.

3.2.2 Partial Legislative Jurisdiction

This type of jurisdiction is very similar to exclusive jurisdiction, except that the
State has reserved the right to exercise certain authority, such as the right to tax
or to sell fishing licenses.

3.2.3 Concurrent Legislative Jurisdiction

The United States and the States jointly hold and exercise all rights accorded a
sovereign, with the broad qualification that such authority is held concurrently.
The United States, however, has the superior right under the supremacy clause
of the Constitution to carry out Federal functions unimpeded by State
regulation.

3.2.4 Proprietary Jurisdiction

The United States has no legislative jurisdiction or measure of the State's
authority over Federal land, but exercises all the rights of a property owner.
The United States, however, has certain other constitutional powers that a
private individual does not hold. Congress has delegated a measure of that
constitutional authority to NPS to make and enforce regulations (36 CFR
Chapter 1) in all NPS areas (see 16 U.S.C. 1a-2(h), 1c and 3). A State may
exercise its legislative jurisdiction (police power) over the acts of private
persons in park areas to the same extent as on privately owned lands. The State
may exercise its full civil and criminal jurisdiction over private activities on
Federal lands held under proprietary status. The State may not impose its
regulatory power directly upon the United States without specific congressional
consent, nor may it tax Federal land. Neither may the State regulate in the
Federal area in any way that might directly interfere with the performance of a
United States function, law or regulation.
Insofar as possible, NPS will seek to acquire concurrent legislative jurisdiction
for all units of the National Park System (16 U.S.C. 1a-3).

4. ELEMENTS OF PROPRIETARY AND CONCURRENT JURISDICTION

4.1 Proprietary Jurisdiction

4.1.1 NPS Regulations and Certain Federal Laws

Under proprietary jurisdiction, NPS rules and regulations and certain Federal
statutory laws must be enforced by commissioned employees. Federal laws,
such as destruction of government property, assault on a Federal officer, and
Federal drug, firearms, finance and environmental laws describe crimes against
the United States and are offenses wherever they are committed.

4.1.2 Criminal Statutes

Federal criminal statutes that define crimes such as murder, assault, maiming,
rape, robbery, and theft do not apply to Federal land unless it is held under
exclusive or concurrent legislative jurisdiction. Consequently, in areas of
proprietary jurisdiction, only individuals delegated law enforcement authority
by the State (or any of its political subdivisions) have authority to enforce State
criminal statutes that address such crimes. The major disadvantages of
proprietary jurisdiction are that commissioned employees: (1) cannot enforce
most laws pertaining to crimes against persons found in the U.S. Code because
Congress has restricted the use of these statutes to areas of exclusive and
concurrent jurisdiction, and (2) cannot use a section of the U.S. Code
commonly called the Assimilated Crimes Act (18 U.S.C. 13). This law makes
acts or omissions punishable under State law also punishable under Federal law
where there is no applicable Federal statute to cover an offense. Laws enacted
by a State would become Federal law within the park and could be tried in the
Federal court system. This statute may be used by commissioned employees
only in areas of exclusive or concurrent legislative jurisdiction.

4.1.3 Felonies

In a park area with proprietary jurisdiction, the burden of most felony
investigations, arrests and prosecutions (with very few exceptions) rests with
the State.

Any Questions?
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