Illinois law(according to state police)

[Azuleslight]

So i just spoke to the state police today. In Illinois, until the vehicle has been inspected and officially accepted as an RV you are not exempt regardless of registration "RV shell" from CDL laws. You must have the proper license to operate the Bus. In this case you must also have the proper insurance, which in Illinois falls under Commercial/Private vehicle.

I plan to register the Bus as a personal vehicle to try to avoid commercial insurance. Does anyone know of any other tips or tricks to get around this or should i just wait and do it legal like? lol

[tincaneasybakeoven]

go to a place on the web like findlaw and do research in your state statutes. those who have taken an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the united States and the republic of illinois to the best of their ability; often do bend the rules to their advantage to maximize the revenue intake from sheep they serve.

rules of statutory construction are precise.

anything not specifically included in the act is excluded.

they wont tell you that.

agency rules regulations orders and tradition do not apply to a private man, and do apply to a employee of the state.

the state employee then tends to misinterpret the rules regulations orders and tradition to apply to a private man, who is not an employee. misery loves company.

[Azuleslight]

thats all a little confusing, ley mans terms please.

[Azuleslight]

just spoke with the person whom does the paperwork for specialty constructed vehicles in illinois. You have 24 hours to get the vehicle from point A to point B. You still must have any licenses or CDL's needed to drive the skoolie. (kinda got the feeling that you could sneak and as long as you do not get caught you do not even need those). Once the skoolie is in place you cannot legally drive it again(after those 24 hours) until you have the skoolie converted to the minimum standard required by Illinois. The items on-site mean nothing until they are installed completely. But the inspectors will come out to you to certify that the conversion is complete and that costs nothing. Hope this helps others in Illinois.

[CaptSquid]

Originally Posted by Azuleslight

thats all a little confusing, ley mans terms please.

In LAYMAN's terms, it means that the regulations can be misinterpreted by those people who wear lots of shiny leather, mirrored sunglasses, shiny badges and BIG (when you're looking at the business end) pistols.

I bought mine in Kankakee and had a 15 day permit in the back window, plenty of time to get it back to a state not driven by taxes (Montana). Once back, Brunhilde sat idle until I got rid of the seats and had flooring and a bed installed. During that time frame, I got her registered, unfortunately, as a bus ($$$$). When renewal comes around, I'll have made sufficient progress that will ensure that she is re-titled as an RV (¢¢¢¢).

I currently live in her, and even endured a rather frigid winter. Now, she's parked on private property, even though it is very legal for me to operate her. There is only ONE seat in her (driver's seat), so there is NO STEENKIN' WAY she can be misconstrued as a bus.

[Robin97396]

What color is it?

[Azuleslight]

Originally Posted by CaptSquid

In LAYMAN's terms, it means that the regulations can be misinterpreted by those people who wear lots of shiny leather, mirrored sunglasses, shiny badges and BIG (when you're looking at the business end) pistols.

I bought mine in Kankakee and had a 15 day permit in the back window, plenty of time to get it back to a state not driven by taxes (Montana). Once back, Brunhilde sat idle until I got rid of the seats and had flooring and a bed installed. During that time frame, I got her registered, unfortunately, as a bus ($$$$). When renewal comes around, I'll have made sufficient progress that will ensure that she is re-titled as an RV (¢¢¢¢).

I currently live in her, and even endured a rather frigid winter. Now, she's parked on private property, even though it is very legal for me to operate her. There is only ONE seat in her (driver's seat), so there is NO STEENKIN' WAY she can be misconstrued as a bus.

I am trying to avoid registering the skoolie. Because it will not be driven nor in a public space, I am told that this is acceptable. I will register the vehicle AFTER i make the conversion. This way it will start its life as an RV/motor home and not a bus in my possession. With my luck and Illinois being Illinois ill will probably be hit with fees for not registering the vehicle as soon as i buy it.

[Robin97396]

If you get rid of most of the seats, presto, it's a van. You can register these like a car or truck and it's not difficult. How much easier would it be to use the bus to haul the materials and anything you need to do your build? You can keep it running better by driving it somewhat frequently too.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

If you get rid of most of the seats, presto, it's a van. You can register these like a car or truck and it's not difficult. How much easier would it be to use the bus to haul the materials and anything you need to do your build? You can keep it running better by driving it somewhat frequently too.

depends on your state...

--OHIO--
my previous bus was a short bluebird and its GVWR was under 26000 and I only had seats for whatever it was 12 or 14 people so i simply registered it as a Passenger car and no one said a word...

my new bus is a short Carpenter but is a Much heavier duty Bus and has a GVWR of 27,500 (hugh for a short bus).. so even though it only has seats for 15 people (factory built this way.. 12 + 2 wheel chairs + 1 driver.) I cannot register it as a passenger car because of its weight.. in Ohio it is considered a CDL vehicle.. so my only choice was to make it an RV even before the conversion.. good thing is in ohio no one gives a crap because like ive mentioned in other posts people drive school busses all over the place here.. go to any Ohio state sporting event and there are plenty of Non-compliant-RV's parked everywhere..

in Ohio a 'VAN' is actually stated as a type of truck.. (dry van) is a trucking term for an enclosed hauling area.. in ohio to register as a VAN you have to have a definite division between the driver's Cab and the Hauling area.. its grey area as to whether you are allowed to have a door to the hauling area or not...

again that 26000 lb GVWR comes into play.. if your vehicle is anything over that and NOT an RV it requires a CDL to drive.

I was thinking it was a Federal statute that required CDL for any NON RV vehicle over 26,000 lbs GVWR..

the other Part of this is you CAN get a CDL and just drive your bus however and wherever until its converted.. you dont have to keep your CDL forever... every state is different in regards to enforcement..

regardless of what you do i would equip your bus with the necessary equipment that DOT requires a commercial vehicle to have on board.. fire extuingisher, first aid kit, emergency flairs or reflector triangles,fuses, and such .. if you get stopped by DOT and they can see you arent a "cowboy" trying to blast through the law but are doing everything correctly to your knowledge they are much less likely to give you a fine...

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

I should also mention that in some states removing seats does not alter the capacity... ie in Michigan they expressly state that taking the seats out of a Bus does not change how the DMV views the capacity... if it was built by the bidy company as a 65 passenger bus then you cannot alter that... at least in their eyes... some states like Ohio the number of seating positions is determined by the number of installed seats..

theres a formula for school bus seat width as it pertains to capacity but I cannot remember what it is.. in my new bus my seats are perfect.. they are the type that had the built in child safety mechanisms which can be folded down... and each position has a seat belt.. so each seat is designed to hold 2 people.... child or adult.. theres no confusion...

as an RV alot of stuff goes out the window.. at least for now.. as most know some lawmakers want RV's to follow the same regulations as any vehicle its size...

-Christopher

[Scooternj]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

as an RV alot of stuff goes out the window.. at least for now.. as most know some lawmakers want RV's to follow the same regulations as any vehicle its size...

Now, if only RV manufacturers would take a page out of the bus coach body companies and build them to bus standards, instead of S&S

[Azuleslight]

Originally Posted by Scooternj

Now, if only RV manufacturers would take a page out of the bus coach body companies and build them to bus standards, instead of S&S

Then they might be worth half of what they charge for the rv's.

Also i have to make sure but in ill i believe anything over 26,001 lbs requires a CDL without an RV registration. Yes it would be glorious to register the bus as a car or van. If i wait to register the bus i wont be able to drive it, but i will save on all the fees until it is done being converted. Or so my hope goes i have to ask.

[Stu & Filo. T]

Wow, I had mine retitled in Ill & DMV said you want it as a Bus we'll title it as a Bus, you want it as a RV we'll title it as a RV you want it titled as a Submarine we'll title it as a Submarine, this is what it will cost.

[Tango]

Oooooohhh! I WANT a submarine title! Imagine flashing that at some highway patrol.

"You have no jurisdiction over this vehicle officer. I only answer the The Department of the Navy".

[Azuleslight]

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

Wow, I had mine retitled in Ill & DMV said you want it as a Bus we'll title it as a Bus, you want it as a RV we'll title it as a RV you want it titled as a Submarine we'll title it as a Submarine, this is what it will cost.

After you finished the conversion right?

[Robin97396]

This may play into it in my case. My bus was a special needs bus. A wheel chair bus with only enough seating for the attendant and driver. A DMV representative did inspect the bus immediately after purchase and agreed it did not have a passenger capacity, as I don't have a bunch of handicapped friends, and neither was it practical for hauling freight in a commercial sense. Hence, the DMV titled this medium size FE ('97 TC1000) as a van. They did rattle off about four requirements for it to be considered an RV. I told them I didn't intend to go with a conversion. This is my fishing van, a dry cabin with a wood stove by a high mountain lake. No apparent regulations about wood stoves in buses, other than general caution about co2 emissions from fueled heating devices. They decided this was not a commercial van and was not practical as a bus without considerable modifications. Therefor as a POV it's a truck, car or van. Maxi-van in my suggestion. Now titled as a van, insured as a POV. Yes, technically I need to get a class "B" Oregon license, and I currently only have a class "C" license with motorcycle endorsement. Class B licenses are required here for anything with air brakes to insure that you are aware of how to deal with the air brakes so you don't cause a great big crash. I understand it's basically a test where you walk around the vehicle with the DMV representative and identify braking mechanisms as well as answer associated questions.
I do have a very old license with numerous vehicles listed that include many with air brakes, so you probably don't have to fear for your safety from me.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

This may play into it in my case. My bus was a special needs bus. A wheel chair bus with only enough seating for the attendant and driver. A DMV representative did inspect the bus immediately after purchase and agreed it did not have a passenger capacity, as I don't have a bunch of handicapped friends, and neither was it practical for hauling freight in a commercial sense. Hence, the DMV titled this medium size FE ('97 TC1000) as a van. They did rattle off about four requirements for it to be considered an RV. I told them I didn't intend to go with a conversion. This is my fishing van, a dry cabin with a wood stove by a high mountain lake. No apparent regulations about wood stoves in buses, other than general caution about co2 emissions from fueled heating devices. They decided this was not a commercial van and was not practical as a bus without considerable modifications. Therefor as a POV it's a truck, car or van. Maxi-van in my suggestion. Now titled as a van, insured as a POV. Yes, technically I need to get a class "B" Oregon license, and I currently only have a class "C" license with motorcycle endorsement. Class B licenses are required here for anything with air brakes to insure that you are aware of how to deal with the air brakes so you don't cause a great big crash. I understand it's basically a test where you walk around the vehicle with the DMV representative and identify braking mechanisms as well as answer associated questions.
I do have a very old license with numerous vehicles listed that include many with air brakes, so you probably don't have to fear for your safety from me.

thats ultimately the way out for anyone who cant get titled as an RV is to get a CDL.. however each state is different in terms of what you have to do to actually operate the vehicle.. ie do you have to maintain a DOT sticker and therefore maintain DOT sticker, log books, adhere to driver hour restrictions, etc.. some states allow for a ommercial vehicle operated permanently still requiring a CDL but not requiring the DOT compliances...

in ohio its purely by GVWR.. if i want to register it as a Bus and its over 26000 lbs I need a CDL.. the laws read very uncear about whether I have to maintain DOT certification.. as an RV all that goes out the window.. and like i have mentioned ohio is quite lax because there are "RV's" skoolies all over that have only the lights painted over and some of the seats removed.. or seats replaced with just plain sofas... (ie Ohio state tailgating busses are everywhere in the fall)..

-Christopher

[Robin97396]

It's a POV, operated just like a POV. No DOT certification, just common sense maintenance like your car or truck or even van. No commercial insurance policy either.

[Kubla]

I do not think Ohio will let me get away with the passenger car thing even though my bus only ever had 3 seats and places for like 5 wheel chairs

[Robin97396]

Yeah, you never know until you try. And watch your wording. It helps if you fill out the forms yourself too.