Jacking up a bus?

[cadillackid]

I agree on a full size bus... im goping to drive mine over to the cat scales to see what the rear weighs.. I would also think of it much differently if I were lifting the front and puilling the engine or working directly under the suspension with the wheels off..

the nost reasonable stands ive seen are 10-12 tonners.. which wouldnt hold the business end of a 40 ft RE bus up with any room to spare.. I doubt the rear end of my bus weighs the 6 tons that my 6 ton stands hold. but im going with 10s.

i'll probably also leave the bottle jacks under as a secondary.. most of the pressure on the stands but the bottles as a backup...

when we did EC's roof raise his HF bottle jacks still had pressure a couple weeks later...
-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

good idea on the steel plates I like that idea!.. what do you mean by moving the bus under its own power and rams 10" high?

the stands ive got to use are 10 tons / pair.. the GVWR of the bus is 17500.
-Christopher

Moves under it's own power = drive it up a set of ramps like you do a car for an oil change. Obviously the ramps need to be rated.

I like the steel plate idea too. I need to buy some plate. I've got the 12 ton jack stands that go to 29" tall or some such. They are stout and I'd have no problem using them if/when I need to change a tire, raise a roof, etc. I'm not going to do it on dirt without large plates but the stands don't scare me.

[cadillackid]

my bus has a pretty low forward rake... i might get in trouble with ramps.. lifting the rear is the most sensible in my case..

I need to find where to by some steel plates. big enough for the stand footprint.. my stands have a pretty decent footprint on them.

the bus does still drive and run.. im just one to replace the transmission before it leaves me along the road someplace...
-Christopher

[jazty]

Ok, ok, just gonna throw this out there:

If you're planning on buying steel plates anyway, why not just buy the cribbing? Cribbing is safer and probably cheaper than a couple of 1/8" plates of steel..

Also, if you can stack a couple pieces of Lego then you can safely stack cribbing.

[cadillackid]

just standard 4x4's? I know i dont want to cut 36 pieces of 4x4 wit ha sawzall lolol
my circ saw doesnt go that deep.. lumber yard could probably cut em up.. how long do you make them? 24 inches?
-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

my bus has a pretty low forward rake... i might get in trouble with ramps.. lifting the rear is the most sensible in my case..

What????

If you're worried about the front clearing ramps to drive up them then don't drive up them. Put the ramps at the rear tires and drive up them.

If you're worried about the nose hitting the ground while having the rear lifted on the ramps, you're screwed anyway. You'll be lifting the rear however high regardless of ramps, jack stands, or cribbing. Only way around that it to use stands/cribbing up front first and then lifting the rear.

Originally Posted by jazty

Ok, ok, just gonna throw this out there:

If you're planning on buying steel plates anyway, why not just buy the cribbing? Cribbing is safer and probably cheaper than a couple of 1/8" plates of steel..

Also, if you can stack a couple pieces of Lego then you can safely stack cribbing.

Steel plates stack nicer and lower than cribbing. I'm going to buy plating so I can change a tire on the side of the road. Jack stands, bottle jack, chalks will all go somewhere on the bus. I do need to practice it once while it's dry , warm, sunny, level, etc. My bottle jack is only 6 tons, the entire bus is 10 tons. 6 tons should be good enough to lift a corner at a time. I've no idea the height or travel of the jack (hence the practice). I will probably see if I can't find a 6x6 somewhere so the jack will just fit under the frame (or railroad tie, etc).

[jazty]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

just standard 4x4's? I know i dont want to cut 36 pieces of 4x4 wit ha sawzall lolol
my circ saw doesnt go that deep.. lumber yard could probably cut em up.. how long do you make them? 24 inches?
-Christopher

24" should be fine. I cut mine to 32". It's likely that you'll only find pressure treated 4x4s at the box stores (which is fine, just a bit more expensive). A proper lumber yard should have untreated 4x4s. Most places will cut for free.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

What????

If you're worried about the front clearing ramps to drive up them then don't drive up them. Put the ramps at the rear tires and drive up them.

If you're worried about the nose hitting the ground while having the rear lifted on the ramps, you're screwed anyway. You'll be lifting the rear however high regardless of ramps, jack stands, or cribbing. Only way around that it to use stands/cribbing up front first and then lifting the rear.

Steel plates stack nicer and lower than cribbing. I'm going to buy plating so I can change a tire on the side of the road. Jack stands, bottle jack, chalks will all go somewhere on the bus. I do need to practice it once while it's dry , warm, sunny, level, etc. My bottle jack is only 6 tons, the entire bus is 10 tons. 6 tons should be good enough to lift a corner at a time. I've no idea the height or travel of the jack (hence the practice). I will probably see if I can't find a 6x6 somewhere so the jack will just fit under the frame (or railroad tie, etc).

with duallies that some wide ramps!.. no the nose wouldnt hit the ground.. the issue is my door step as I climb a fairly steep ramp.. my bus was designed with 19.5" wheels and a low front step.. it was an elementary kid bus... little tikes, short legs, low steps..

I still have to measure.. I may be able to get away with just running up the air suspension a few inches..

remember this isnt to work under the bus.. i can do what I need to with the bus on the ground.. its to wheel a transmission on its jack out and the new one in.. then I plan t odrop the bus back to normal height for the actual trans install and mount.. allows mew to keep the trans jack at a lower setting where I can see better too.. I dont want the bus tilted forward much at all when the trans goes in as I dont want to deal with the converter wanting to fall off.. best way to do that is level bus which means trans is tilted ever so slightly back.

-Christopher

[jazty]

Chris, can you take some pictures of the install? I'd really like to see what's going on down there. Some day - if I can find a 7+ speed manual transmission - I'll be swapping out my 5-speed. I imagine the mounts on my bus are similar to the 545 behind a T444e.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by jazty

Chris, can you take some pictures of the install? I'd really like to see what's going on down there. Some day - if I can find a 7+ speed manual transmission - I'll be swapping out my 5-speed. I imagine the mounts on my bus are similar to the 545 behind a T444e.

I plan to take pics and video of the build..

on my 444E, it comes off the engine.. goes to an SAE2 flywheel housing and then theres an SAE3 adapter on it... I bought an SAE3 bell transmission.. turned out I couldve gone SAE2.. but it seems like with that com,bo the 444E can accomodate about any trans you want to put on it.. of course I have a Flexplate and not a manual trans clutch wheel like you habe if you are running a stick..
-Christopher

[family wagon]

Is it workable to lower the ground rather than raise the bus? That is, dig an 8 inch deep ditch and then drive up near it? As an alternative, bring soil from elsewhere in the yard and make a mound to park on.

[jazty]

Awesome! Look forward to seeing it.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

with duallies that some wide ramps!..

They would be indeed. I dunno if anyone makes them that wide or not. For a static load you could probably get away with regular ramps and just using one wheel per side.

I don't see how the steps matter. If lifting the front, drive forward on the ramps. If the stairs are in the way either front or rear, then go the other direction. What says you can't back on to ramps? I've done this with cars before.

Originally Posted by jazty

I'll be swapping out my 5-speed. I imagine the mounts on my bus are similar to the 545 behind a T444e.

Can I have your 5 speed? Try life with a 4 speed. You kids and your fancy 7 speed trannies!!

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by family wagon

Is it workable to lower the ground rather than raise the bus? That is, dig an 8 inch deep ditch and then drive up near it? As an alternative, bring soil from elsewhere in the yard and make a mound to park on.

nah.. I live in a subdivision.. with a sloped driveway.. asphalt.. so im going to do the swap in my storage unit which is covered and nicdely paved and flat.. a bus in neutral doesnt roll..

the storage people dont seem to care if people work on stuff in there.. 2 days ago a guy was tearing apart his wrecked EVO and the storage dude on a golf cart didnt say a word.. ive changed oil and such there before without issue..
-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

They would be indeed. I dunno if anyone makes them that wide or not. For a static load you could probably get away with regular ramps and just using one wheel per side.

I don't see how the steps matter. If lifting the front, drive forward on the ramps. If the stairs are in the way either front or rear, then go the other direction. What says you can't back on to ramps? I've done this with cars before.

Can I have your 5 speed? Try life with a 4 speed. You kids and your fancy 7 speed trannies!!

i think his 5 speed is a Stick...
my 6 speed will be an auto

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

i think his 5 speed is a Stick...
my 6 speed will be an auto

And? It's a 5 speed not a 4 speed is the point.

I like a manual in a car. I dunno about a bus but I'm sure I could get use to that easy enough. The TDI is a 6 speed manual. I still try to shift into "7th". What I really need is something out of a semi. Maybe with a 16 speed or whatever I won't run out of gears while driving.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

And? It's a 5 speed not a 4 speed is the point.

I like a manual in a car. I dunno about a bus but I'm sure I could get use to that easy enough. The TDI is a 6 speed manual. I still try to shift into "7th". What I really need is something out of a semi. Maybe with a 16 speed or whatever I won't run out of gears while driving.

I thought about a 9 speed.. then thought.. hmm i drive this thing like a daily driver to starbucks in the city.. yeah give m,e an automatic.. oh and yeah my '6th' wont have to be unlocked.. it just comes that way...

-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I thought about a 9 speed.. then thought.. hmm i drive this thing like a daily driver to starbucks in the city.. yeah give m,e an automatic.. oh and yeah my '6th' wont have to be unlocked.. it just comes that way...

-Christopher

We still talking semi trannies? In a shortie, you're starting at the red light in 3rd no doubt. And you wouldn't use 6-9 in 35mph traffic.

As for unlocked, are you saying the MD3060 has an unlocked 6th gear in an auto but locked in manual? Sounds backwards to me.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

We still talking semi trannies? In a shortie, you're starting at the red light in 3rd no doubt. And you wouldn't use 6-9 in 35mph traffic.

As for unlocked, are you saying the MD3060 has an unlocked 6th gear in an auto but locked in manual? Sounds backwards to me.

the MD3060 is an automatic transmission... ion school bus applications the 6th gear is "locked out" or "disabled" for use by the manufacturer via the computer.. the transmission is capable of being a 6 speed.. its not a manual clutch trans.. you can "tap shift" it like other autos to set a maximum gear.. but that max in a school bus will be gear 5. (Overdirve 1)..

its theoretically possible to get 6 "unlocked" or "enabled". but im not sure anyione has been able to break through the red tape to do so...

you could buy another TCM (trans computer) from a 3rd party that may have 6th enabled.. but thats $$$..

the allison 1000 / 2000 series transmissions were built as both 5 and 6 speeds deopending on the year... again never as a 6 speed enable on a school bus...

the allison 1000 was / still is. widely used in the GMC / Chevy 'HD' trucks.. its an option in many of the 3500,4500 trucks.. it is sold as a 6 speed in those applications.. that isan OEM factory application.. those transmissions are built by allison to GMC specs..

allison 2000s in Medium duty trucks.. (navistar 4300,4700, etc) were offered with 6 speeds enabled... navistar controlled this by requiring certain tire sizes and gear ratios based on the engine and HP selected.. so the 6 speed would match the power / drivetrain..


in my case i bought a late model allison 1000 thats been "built up" with all the updated spec parts.. warranted for 3 or 5 years.. cant remember which..

the computer in it is being programmed to match the specs that my bus has.. weight, engine power, gearing, tires, matches the billet trans and upgraded converter as well.. etc.. knowing full-well i might be over-geared.. I went with 6 speeds anyway knowing i can disable 6th myself if I feel im lugging the engine..

as for manuals.. im thinking medium duty manuals not semi truck manuals.. I believe there is a 7 or 9 speed made for medium duty trucks.. which would have a coupole close ratio early " granny" gears and then the ratios would widen a bit as you went up to having 2 Overdrive gears.. and I *THINK* 2 reverse speeds.. im omnly going omn what I read awhile back about a freightliner FL100. which was a fairly heavy medium weight box truck (28 ft)...
-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the MD3060 is an automatic transmission...
.. so the 6 speed would match the power / drivetrain..

Ah ok.

in my case i bought a late model allison 1000 thats been "built up" with all the updated spec parts.. warranted for 3 or 5 years.. cant remember which..

the computer in it is being programmed to match the specs that my bus has.. weight, engine power, gearing, tires, matches the billet trans and upgraded converter as well.. etc.. knowing full-well i might be over-geared.. I went with 6 speeds anyway knowing i can disable 6th myself if I feel im lugging the engine..

What's this costing you?

as for manuals.. im thinking medium duty manuals not semi truck manuals.. I believe there is a 7 or 9 speed made for medium duty trucks.. which would have a coupole close ratio early " granny" gears and then the ratios would widen a bit as you went up to having 2 Overdrive gears.. and I *THINK* 2 reverse speeds.. im omnly going omn what I read awhile back about a freightliner FL100. which was a fairly heavy medium weight box truck (28 ft)...

I wouldn't want or need 2 reverse gears. I don't plan on driving backwards often or for long distances. My reverse gear is 5.4:1 IIRC. 1st gear is only something like 3:1 so if I do any stump pulling, it'll be in reverse.