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Old 02-11-2009, 05:39 PM   #1
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change

I have yet to do this; however, I read on busnut.com that one bus owner uses a second jack on the lug wrench handle to break the nuts loose. Safer than jumping on a breaker bar I guess. Thought I'd pass it along.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:57 PM   #2
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybus
What is the best way to go about this? How tight should I torque the lug nuts? 22.5's. How can I break the bead on non split rims. Thanks. What is a good price to pay for a new tire? Thanks.
A bottlejack and cribbing is a slow, but safe way to do this. Torque spec on the nuts is Ingersoll tight. Seriously. As tight as a good 1/2 drive impact (like an IR 2135 or Aircat 1000TC, 1000TH, or 1100K) would be about right. Of course I'm not sure that those guns are going to be able to break them loose. A pipe, a 3/4 drive or larger breaker bar, and some big guns are probably the best way to get them loose. I have yet to try my Aircat at getting the nuts loose using the air onboard.

As for breaking the beads...driving over them with a vehicle works, but honestly, your best bet is just to bring the tires in some place to get them mounted. I know it will cost some money, but it's for good reason. They will have the equipment and patience to deal with it. Expect to pay $250 or more for a new radial tire for your 22.5's.
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:33 AM   #3
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change

I did a search on my other fav bus site, busnut.com yesterday, just to remind myself what I'd read. Ingersall tight is NOT correct. This can stretch your studs. I'm not an expert, and can only repeat what I've read. Seems between 450 and 500 ft. lbs. is correct for bus lug nuts. I can't imagine that it's different for skoolies. I also did a quick search on torgue, again to verify. Distance x force = torque. So If I weigh 250 lbs, and put all my weight at the 2' point on a cheater bar, I apply 500 ft lbs to the nut. If I weigh 100 lbs, I need to be at 5' on the bar to get the same value.

I searched (I think): lug nuts tire change on www.busnut.com
Read probably the first 3 threads. Some excellent info out there. Little tidbits like having a 4x10 to drive the flat tire up on so there's room for the jack.......do I need a 1/2, 3/4 or 1" impact wrench to break the lugs......how do I tell if my studs are stretched............
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:32 PM   #4
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change


I was going to say "have a pro do it", but I also admire your DIY spirit.

If it is an outside rear that needs changing, just drive the inside rear up on a block of wood and you will not need a jack.

Yes, you may be able to sneak into the next town on one rear tire -- we do it with 18-wheelers occationally. We call it to "single it out". But it is iffy. Sure, it would be best to have the single tire out for stability, but I cannot see flipping the inner just for that. Drive 45 MPH max and very gently, and not far.

Odds are, you will not need any significant force to break the beads. These wheels do not have the safety hump that car wheels have. Big rig tires often separate from the rim just by losing all air pressure while parked.

But you may need a very high volume blast of air to seat the new tire. Pros carry a portable tank with a short one inch I.D. hose and a ball valve to deliver such a blast. The hose has a wide flat nozzle, a bit like a vacuum cleaner nozzle. Set the regular air hose flowing on the valve stem, and a big WHOOSH seats it. (MUCH safer than the old explosion of ether!)

I have seen a guy change such a tire without removing the rim! This guy was a pro's pro. The flat was an outside rear and I drove the inside tire up on a block. He then popped the tire off with a bar and a foot and the other hand. New tire back on same way -- and fast, and it looked easy!
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:49 PM   #5
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkoskoolie
Ingersall tight is NOT correct. This can stretch your studs. I'm not an expert, and can only repeat what I've read. Seems between 450 and 500 ft. lbs. is correct for bus lug nuts. I can't imagine that it's different for skoolies.
Have you ever actually measured the output of most half inch impact guns at say 100 psi like you might see feeding it from the air brakes? 500 ft lbs would be on the upper end of what you could expect to see so long as you aren't sitting there hammering on it for 3 minutes. I know with my Aircat, for example, on the lowest setting I can get 150-175 ft lbs after 3-5 raps when it stalls out. I have verified this with my torque wrench. It makes tightening spindle nuts really easy. Most upper level impacts are rated at 1000 ft lbs, but if you start to read the fine print they are only rated at 800 or so ft lbs working torque. On top of that, most are weaker in forward rotation than reverse. Now understanding that they work by hammering means that you know that they get incrementally tighter based on how many times you let it hit. It's all a matter of knowing your equipment. Ever met that 80 year old engine builder that has a torque wrench built into his forearm? Same idea.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:24 PM   #6
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_experience03
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkoskoolie
Ingersall tight is NOT correct. This can stretch your studs. I'm not an expert, and can only repeat what I've read. Seems between 450 and 500 ft. lbs. is correct for bus lug nuts. I can't imagine that it's different for skoolies.
Ever met that 80 year old engine builder that has a torque wrench built into his forearm? Same idea.
i actually knew an engine builder who did all of his engine assembly with an impact, I couldn't fathom it, but comebacks were practically non-existent for him, though I would never trust a 1/2 in impact gun to put the wheels on my c-60 or any vehicle that size, no matter what they are rated, air supply through the couplings is never enough and going forward you can't trust them to reach torques high enough (my c-60 spec is 360 ft-lb) at work we never put medium duty wheels on with anything other than the 3/4 drive impact but that requires its own special air supply because the piping and hoses to rest of the shop are to small of a diameter to feed the gun

also does the vehicle in question have normal lug nuts and studs like your car or is it using wedge-lock type fasteners which require careful attention to the runout of the wheel during installation
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:31 AM   #7
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change

If you're serious about doing your own tire work find a competant tire service person and have/pay them to teach you how to properly service the wheels and tires on your bus. their are enough variables in wheel designs and mounting systems that any advice here sight unseen could be extremely hazardous to your health and well being. translation if you make a mistake it could cost you life or limb or both.

a 10.00 x 20 tire with 90 psi of air inside has enough stored energy to loft a 16 lb bowling ball from the sidewalk to the top of the empire state building.

their is a reason that their are osha guidelines for tire service and that tire shops have safty cages to inflate tires in.

find out what kind and size of wheels you have, "dayton" wedge type or "budd" disc type. if budd type are they hub or stud piloted? is it worthwhile to carry a spare? if so what about some extra hardware, studs,wedges,washers and nuts for daytons or right and left threaded inner and outer dual nuts and front nuts for budd type wheels, or whatever is required for a hub piloted wheel, then round up the right tools and information to do the job an you still have to be in good enuff shape to handle a 200 pound tire assembly without hurting your self

for meit's like elliot started to say carry a spre and credit card, call the professional and be safe.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:54 AM   #8
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change


Yes, kaboom is entirely possible.

Last year I inadvertantly detonated a car wheel in my yard. It was one of those racing tires in my avatar, and it would not seat. I put it behind the house and clipped on an air chuck. Every once in a while I stopped the compressor, bled off a few pounds for a taste of safety, then checked the tire, keeping my head away. Last time I checked it, it was around 50 pounds, and still not seated. Fired the compressor back up and after a while... it seated. With a bang. Loud bang. The tire went over the house and landed on the front porch. The wheel, which failed catastrophically when the bead of the tire impacted it with maybe 60 PSI behind it, landed in the neighbor's yard.

Now I use professional tire lube, put in 30 PSI, and let it sit in the sun until it seats.

Sometimes when an 18-wheeler tire blows, the shock wave blows out (in!) the axle oil seal.

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Old 02-14-2009, 03:28 PM   #9
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

, and it looked easy!
the pro's do make tire changing look easy ! It once took me half a day to replace a leaky valve stem on a bus tire. The biggest vehicle we had was a jeep and it wouldn't break the bead. After driving on it several times, we finally parked the jeep on the tire and used a sledge hammer.

A cheap bottle jack can easily lift a skoolie....although not as easily as elliot's idea of driving onto a piece of wood.
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Old 02-14-2009, 03:59 PM   #10
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Re: Jacking Up The Bus For Tire Change


I should have pointed out that big tires do NOT ALWAYS pop loose from the rim by themselves. The pros use some very big sledge hammers when they don't.

But the big difference is the absense of a "safety hump" inboard of the tire bead. That's what makes it so hard to get a car tire on and off.

And the block of wood can only be used of it is an outside rear tire that needs changing.

As for that very stuck bus tire.... Had it been on there for lots of years? I'm thinking that the rubber might stick to the metal after many years. In trucking, we drive over 100.000 miles per year, so tires don't get time to grow roots.

While I'm at it, let me give you guys some good news. In trucking, we very rarely have front tire punctures. Luckily! But the rest of the tires pick up tons of nails and such. What happens is that the nail is snoozing comfortably on the pavement, all stretched out flat. Thus the first tire that hits the nail is not harmed. But the nail sure is awakened from its nap, kneaded by the squirming rubber of the front tire, and now it bounces off the ground and goes tumbling like a rag doll in a clothes dryer. And if it is somewhat upright when the next tire comes along... in it goes like a nail is designed to.
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