Looking for a driver

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by plfking

I wouldn't mind hearing more of this story......

that one was easy... there was an active swat situation and a traffic crash occured all at once.. I was just getting out of the bus at a starbucks nearby to go write code and suck down some espresso.. the officer saw me and explained people were cutting through the nearby driveway and getting into their sterile zone trying to get througn but the accident was blocking anyway and cars couldnt really escape without back-tracking .. so they asked me if I would mind parking my bus across the driveway and turning on the hazards and headlight brights .. I left it run with the A/C on, told em they could move it or come get me when they were done.. after awhile.. things settled down.. I saw it pull into the starbucks lot and the officers thanked me lots for my help .. when I went to take off and head back on my road trip I noted the full tank of fuel that it didnt have before..
-Christopher

[mikeypj]

Drive it like you bought it!

[plfking]

Thanks.....that's a cool story.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

.. when I went to take off and head back on my road trip I noted the full tank of fuel that it didnt have before..
-Christopher

Too bad they didn't leave you a couple of tactical weapons too.

[Biscuitsjam]

We had a driver take our bus from Georgia to Alaska. We bought plane tickets (and taxi fares) to the airports in Georgia and Alaska, and paid a per diem. We also bought some basic safety stuff (fire extinguisher, tool kit, extra fluids and filters).

[Biscuitsjam]

Originally Posted by GWRider

LEO's have software designed for their job so they can find it in seconds. It is not that difficult these days to write software that could use the license class from your states license and query various databases (like those containing the statutes and vehicle registration) to determine whether it is legal to operate a certain vehicle.

It's a little more confusing than that.

Each state has different rules on classes of driver's licenses and endorsements. Rules about license class could depend on vehicle weight, air brakes, how many seats are installed, or how it is registered. A particular bus might require a CDL in one state, an "RV license" in a second state, an air brake endorsement in a third, and just a regular driver's license elsewhere. What is termed a class A license might be called a Class B or C or D elsewhere because there is no standard naming convention either. Sure, somebody could create software (updated frequently as laws change) but I strongly doubt there is enough of a market or desire. Even looking up statutes isn't straightforward, as each state has a different way of presenting the data and they aren't always written in a clear manner, often requiring multiple statutes to be referenced.

In short, it's going to require a fair bit of effort by a cop to figure out if you are licensed to drive a bus in your state of residence.

[Biscuitsjam]

Originally Posted by GWRider

LEO's have software designed for their job so they can find it in seconds. It is not that difficult these days to write software that could use the license class from your states license and query various databases (like those containing the statutes and vehicle registration) to determine whether it is legal to operate a certain vehicle.

It's a little more confusing than that.

Each state has different rules on classes of driver's licenses and endorsements. Rules about license class could depend on vehicle weight, air brakes, how many seats are installed, or how it is registered. A particular bus might require a CDL and a bus driver endorsement in one state, an "RV license" in a second state, an air brake endorsement in a third, and just a regular driver's license elsewhere. What is termed a class A license might be called a class B or C or D in other states because there is no standard naming convention either. Sure, somebody could create software (updated frequently as laws change) but I strongly doubt there is enough of a market or desire. Even looking up statutes isn't straightforward, as each state has a different way of presenting the data and they can be unclear or contradictory.

In short, it's going to require a fair bit of effort by a cop to figure out if you are licensed to drive a bus in your state of residence.

[MarkyDee]

I equivocated about posting here, but I thought I would.

Originally Posted by joeblack5

... it is insane that someone with no experience can hop into a 26000LBS vehicle without any proper training.

I had the exact same thought when I started my bus adventure. I actually had my bus delivered to me because I didn't feel "up to" the challenge of driving it home. It sat for a good 4 months as I researched the whole CDL issue. After all, I ended up with a 45' TRANSIT bus. There isn't a bus that is more "commercial" than that.

Ultimately I found the email address contact for the "Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Division of the Indiana State Police" (yup, I'm a hoosier at the moment), and I emailed them a list of questions. I was up-front and told them what I was doing (converting a 45' transit bus to an RV). I also told them that I needed to be able to drive it, so what do I need to do it legally?

Their answers both shocked and enlightened me. However, I won't go through the whole argument here, as this topic has been beaten to death elsewhere on this board. (If you want me to, PM me and I will run through the whole thought process with you. Its a bit lengthy and I find law to be very tiresome.)


First, IANAL (I'm not a lawyer)....


So, to "cut to the chase", it comes down to this: the CDL law applies to commercial activity (activity engaged in for remuneration or a profit) first and foremost as that law's force comes from the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. The only way the CDL law will ever apply to you is if you are engaging in commercial activity (normally across state lines) in a vehicle described by the statute. So the question that must be answered is this: does simply driving a "commercial vehicle" cause you to engage in "commercial" activity? Remember, the Commerce Clause regulates commercial activity across state lines - not private activities.



So the answer to that question is "no" as long as you are not making money by driving the vehicle. Simply driving a described vehicle does not automatically cause your activities to be regulated (and fall under the statute) - there must be a profit motive in the mix somewhere.



So, driving a "commercial vehicle" no more makes you profit than standing in an office building makes you a salary. The Commerce Clause is not binding on you as it regulates commercial activity.


This is where the States' driver's license statutes come into play. You need a driver's license to drive privately on the open road. Some states want more regulation over private but large vehicles, so they did that (and generally followed CDL type classes in writing their statutes), others did not. My home state of Indiana does not regulate private driving in large vehicles any more than it does private driving in small vehicles. I can drive across the country with my home state driver's license due to the reciprocal agreements between the States (and Canada I think).



So, the shocking and enlightening answer is: yes you can use your home state's private "operator's license" to drive pretty much any vehicle privately across the country without any additional training AS LONG AS you have met the obligations of your private driver's license (i.e. training and insurance, etc.).


Now, is it a good idea to do so? Well, I'll leave that answer to the reader.


Finally, one more point - it could be assumed that vehicle insurance companies would be very aware of the legalities surrounding "commercial vehicles" and driver's licenses considering that insurance is mandatory for registering and operating vehicles legally nowadays.



When I went to get insurance for my bus one of the questions I was asked was "Do you have a CDL?" I truthfully answered "no". They still entered into an insurance contract with me.

[joeblack5]

For me in PA:
https://www.dmv.pa.gov/Driver-Servic...s/default.aspx





Pretty straightforward... above 26000 you need a class B for a motor home





This is related to commercial...and federal...



federal motor carrier safety page


https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registrati...icense/drivers


It would be interesting o go thorough all the individual states .


I looked at Texas and they have a non commercial driver license class B for everything heavier then 26000.


As long as you dont have problems or get caught then no problem. Essentially with that perspective you do not need insurance or a driver license at all.



Good luck, J

[Alan N]

I didn't realize this was so complicated!

[GWRider]

Originally Posted by Biscuitsjam

It's a little more confusing than that.

Each state has different rules on classes of driver's licenses and endorsements. Rules about license class could depend on vehicle weight, air brakes, how many seats are installed, or how it is registered. A particular bus might require a CDL in one state, an "RV license" in a second state, an air brake endorsement in a third, and just a regular driver's license elsewhere. What is termed a class A license might be called a Class B or C or D elsewhere because there is no standard naming convention either. Sure, somebody could create software (updated frequently as laws change) but I strongly doubt there is enough of a market or desire. Even looking up statutes isn't straightforward, as each state has a different way of presenting the data and they aren't always written in a clear manner, often requiring multiple statutes to be referenced.

In short, it's going to require a fair bit of effort by a cop to figure out if you are licensed to drive a bus in your state of residence.

Sure, the statutes vary but that data is stored in some database somewhere for the particular state. If the data can be accessed from state to state, it can be accomplished.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Alan N

I didn't realize this was so complicated!

anything legal is complicated... insurance companies pay people to find ways to deny claims.. Lawyers spend lots of money looking for reasons and lobbying lawmakers to put loopholes in laws so that litigation can ensue if one little thing is missed...



yeah its complex.. most of us end up without issues as we dont end up in situations where those little things pop up...
-Christopher

[o1marc]

I picked up my bus in Butte Montana and drove it to Seattle. Spent a few days with my brother and then drove the bus to Atlanta. I was approached by two officers both while I was parked, one on the side of the road on Bainbridge Island, Seattle, and once while pulled over on the side of the road in Kentucky or somewhere. Both officers asked about no tag and after showing them insurance and current bill of sale and the fact that I was just passing through their state to get home they saw no issue, even though technically in Washington I should have a drive out tag.
My question is what kind of driving are you doing that you're worried about getting pulled over by the police. Number 1, buses are invisible to the police, not all school districts are required to have license plates. I spent many miles going between 75 and 80, never got pulled over. States have reciprocity, so what's legal in your state is legal in the state you're in at the time as long as your vehicle is insured. I told the officers that since it's a decommissioned bus it is no longer considered a commercial vehicle in the state of Georgia and therefore I am not required to have a CDL to drive it.
Number2, have insurance, have a bill of sale, and drive like you normally safely drive and you will have no issues with LEO. If you all remember I had an accident at my first gas stop, had absolutely no issues with the police officer who showed up while I was on the phone with my insurance agent. The officer spoke to the agent just wanted to verify whether I was insured or not, agent verified I was. That was all the officer needed took his report and left.

[firebuild]

IMO, no one should have to defend their comfort level especially around driving a big ass vehicle without the right paperwork. Good for you if you sidestepped the rules, but the OP does not want to. Which is 100% his/her call.

I called the one person I know in CA who might have been able to drive it but he's got a load and is booked for the foreseeable future. If I come up with anyone else I'll send a message.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by firebuild

IMO, no one should have to defend their comfort level especially around driving a big ass vehicle without the right paperwork. Good for you if you sidestepped the rules, but the OP does not want to. Which is 100% his/her call.

I called the one person I know in CA who might have been able to drive it but he's got a load and is booked for the foreseeable future. If I come up with anyone else I'll send a message.

I didn't sidestep any rules, I was working under the rule of reciprocity. The state of Georgia allows me to drive unregistered for 30 days on a bill of sale as long as I have proper insurance. Neither officer wrote me because they couldn't really argue with me because they didn't know Georgia law, but with the rest of my paperwork in order and nothing else out of whack I was on my way, I still believe totally legally.
I realized the rules are different state to state. I am a native Californian, grew up in New England, and recently spent time in Southern California. I am no longer proud to say I am a native Californian.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by firebuild

IMO, no one should have to defend their comfort level especially around driving a big ass vehicle without the right paperwork. Good for you if you sidestepped the rules, but the OP does not want to. Which is 100% his/her call.

I called the one person I know in CA who might have been able to drive it but he's got a load and is booked for the foreseeable future. If I come up with anyone else I'll send a message.

No ones having to defend anything here, IMO. We're simply trying to assuage someone's fears and report what happens when we drive buses across the country. I don't have a CDL and rarely ever a tag on the buses when I buy them. Taking a written cdl test isn't really much for safety, more for legality. Anything learned on that test can be learned in ten minutes of googling.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by o1marc

I didn't sidestep any rules, I was working under the rule of reciprocity.

I'm not talking about you. I'm commenting on the thread in general.

I'm not judging anybody, believe me. I'm not even going to tell you the big risk I took on my own drive from CA to MA because I know I'd be the one getting judged! But that was a decision I made, which is what everyone gets to do.

The point is, someone asked for help finding a driver. They didn't ask to be cajoled into doing something they're not comfortable with. Suggesting is one thing, but they've obviously done their research and made a decision how they want to handle getting their bus home.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by firebuild

I'm not talking about you. I'm commenting on the thread in general.

I'm not judging anybody, believe me. I'm not even going to tell you the big risk I took on my own drive from CA to MA because I know I'd be the one getting judged! But that was a decision I made, which is what everyone gets to do.

The point is, someone asked for help finding a driver. They didn't ask to be cajoled into doing something they're not comfortable with. Suggesting is one thing, but they've obviously done their research and made a decision how they want to handle getting their bus home.

True. But since no one's stepping forward yet I don't see the harm in a bit of dialogue.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by firebuild

I'm not talking about you. I'm commenting on the thread in general.

I'm not judging anybody, believe me. I'm not even going to tell you the big risk I took on my own drive from CA to MA because I know I'd be the one getting judged! But that was a decision I made, which is what everyone gets to do.

The point is, someone asked for help finding a driver. They didn't ask to be cajoled into doing something they're not comfortable with. Suggesting is one thing, but they've obviously done their research and made a decision how they want to handle getting their bus home.

I do agree with you and feel there is some pressure from others to just do it.

[MarkyDee]

Did the OP found a way to get their bus home? Did you find a driver to help?

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by CaptSquid

Why would you need a driver with a CDL? Are you transporting kids or more than 16? If not, drive it yourself.

I don't know how other states handle it but here in WA you are required to have a CDL to operate a vehicle that is equipped to carry 16 or more. (15+driver)

I have attempted to comply by removing the seat cushions from most of the seats to reduce seating capacity. It might fly if I got pulled over. It might not.

When driving home a drove very conservatively and payed close attention to traffic laws.

Good luck.