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Old 08-30-2019, 09:48 PM   #81
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Interesting article here on the history of diesel emissions standards: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/hd.php#pre04

Definitely backs up the 2003-and-earlier general advice given here (woo hoo!). Interesting that it also says compliance with the 2004 standards actually started in October 2002 (not woo hoo). I thought I read somewhere that there is about a one year lag between when an engine is produced and when it goes into a vehicle, so maybe that would explain the early compliance requirement.

I've been curious as to how effective emissions controls actually are, and the lowered (or rather raised) NOX standard is pretty surprising. My 2003 engine is likely emitting 10 times as much NOX as a 2007 and 100 times as much as a 2015. I did not imagine that any of the emissions reductions were by orders of magnitude.

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Old 08-31-2019, 12:32 AM   #82
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Says someone that lives in Kansas. Also love when people say " the high cost of living" My feelings on that statement is what are really saying is that you do not make enough money to live here. Oh well. When did you live here?

I have been to CA several times and had friends who lived there. It really does not matter where someone lives nowadays. This is not the 1800's and there is plenty of resources and data to determine what is going on in any state or Country. Hopefully, your not that naive to believe you have to live somewhere to know.

As for your feelings, they are way off and your statement seems to imply I am low income or something. Just so you know how ignorant a statement that is, I have worked in Information Technology sector for 30+ years and do well. Our home has been paid off for years and I have the assets to buy a home there or most anywhere if I so pleased.

I have read some of your recent replies to various posters and they come off as very combative. I made no personal comments about you or anyone else, so you should do the same and stay on topic.
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:33 AM   #83
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Why does someone buy a Kia? Because they cannot afford a Honda. That is my point. No Blame or shame. Do not insult me and I will not call you out on it. This is a forum about schoolbusses. Not for individuals to scream " zealots" Review my posts, most all of them are about busses .I am sure that someone will have to have the last word here but I am done. Have a great day. Joe
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:44 AM   #84
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Why does someone buy a Kia? Because they cannot afford a Honda. That is my point. No Blame or shame. Do not insult me and I will not call you out on it. This is a forum about schoolbusses. Not for individuals to scream " zealots" Review my posts, most all of them are about busses .I am sure that someone will have to have the last word here but I am done. Have a great day. Joe



You mean - besides the 9 posts in this thread alone? LOL



Maybe they buy a Kia because they like Kia...or they are Korean...or....
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:57 AM   #85
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Can we like, talk about buses or something?
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:03 PM   #86
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Can we like, talk about buses or something?

Sure, buses or something?


Sorry, thought that was funny.


Wouldn't we have to go to another thread to talk about something other than the Ca mess?
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Old 08-31-2019, 02:30 PM   #87
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I am not sure what the problem is with eliminating old worn equipment that is used in a commercial setting... people / companies making money with it.

Carb identifies these uses and puts a restriction on its use.



Something that pollutes the environment and that has better solutions should be implemented for the well being of the people.. nationally and globally. So this is pre 2003 stuff.... ... 16 yrs old.






I am always amazed how the lax the environmental vehicle laws are. Inspecting your tail pipe emission not under load ... oil leaks no problem.
In other countries ( japan) there are taxes in place to compensate for older vehicles. The revenues can be used to compensate for the pollution these vehicles cause. As a result people maintain there vehicles better.



If you do not take.. or want to take the full cost of your action to the environment and other people in consideration then the government has to step in. I do not see that as limiting your personal freedom but as protection for the people in general.


I wish more states would follow some of Californias examples.



Johan
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Old 08-31-2019, 04:45 PM   #88
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I am not sure what the problem is with eliminating old worn equipment that is used in a commercial setting... people / companies making money with it.

Carb identifies these uses and puts a restriction on its use.



Something that pollutes the environment and that has better solutions should be implemented for the well being of the people.. nationally and globally. So this is pre 2003 stuff.... ... 16 yrs old.






I am always amazed how the lax the environmental vehicle laws are. Inspecting your tail pipe emission not under load ... oil leaks no problem.
In other countries ( japan) there are taxes in place to compensate for older vehicles. The revenues can be used to compensate for the pollution these vehicles cause. As a result people maintain there vehicles better.



If you do not take.. or want to take the full cost of your action to the environment and other people in consideration then the government has to step in. I do not see that as limiting your personal freedom but as protection for the people in general.


I wish more states would follow some of Californias examples.



Johan

Most of what I have seen has to do with population density. I think that in Korea engines have to be replaced at 30,000 miles mandatory. If the engine is still good then that is a huge environmental disaster manufacturing an engine (or whole vehicle) to replace a perfectly good engine. It also takes away any incentive to maintain/repair problem engines or build good engines to start with. But I'm sure that it is profitable for someone and costs everyone else. Looks win-lose-lose-...lose to me. I don't think disposable is the answer.


In the USA, states that I have lived in, inspections in heavily populated areas are a bigger thing than in areas where few people live. A smoggy car or less safe car in the middle of nowhere that is not driven very often is not going to make much of an impact on smog or public safety compared to the same car in a big city. The really low insurance rates in the country reflect the safety issue just as the lessor inspection requirements reflect the environmental issue. School buses and commercial vehicles are a different case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post

Something that pollutes the environment and that has better solutions should be implemented for the well being of the people.. nationally and globally. So this is pre 2003 stuff.... ... 16 yrs old.

In other countries ( japan) there are taxes in place to compensate for older vehicles. The revenues can be used to compensate for the pollution these vehicles cause. As a result people maintain there vehicles better.

I wish more states would follow some of Californias examples.

Johan

Japan:127 million people living on a few highly industrialized islands is a little different from most areas/counties of the USA



How does a little money (tax) from a poor person compensate for the smog the vehicle produces? Your talking about keeping poor people from making a living. If people can't make a living, what do they do? Steal.


Buy the vehicle from him at a more than fair price and take it off the road or help him repair it.


"I wish more states would follow some of Californias examples."


You don't have to mess up another state...just move to California or just wait a while. With the number of House seats that Cal has they are causing changes whether anyone else likes it or not. If Cal is so great, why are there internal movements in Cal to split it into 3 states. Apparently not everyone that lives there agrees.
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Old 08-31-2019, 06:03 PM   #89
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Why does someone buy a Kia? Because they cannot afford a Honda. That is my point. No Blame or shame. Do not insult me and I will not call you out on it. This is a forum about schoolbusses. Not for individuals to scream " zealots" Review my posts, most all of them are about busses .I am sure that someone will have to have the last word here but I am done. Have a great day. Joe

You must be referring to someone else regarding the comment "...Do not insult me and I will not call you out on it..." so I will leave it at that.
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Old 08-31-2019, 06:09 PM   #90
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The only good thing in California is the weather, Clint, and relatively rust free surplus buses.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry Rivetboy...
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Old 08-31-2019, 06:11 PM   #91
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The only good thing in California is the weather, Clint, and relatively rust free surplus buses.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry Rivetboy...
I dunno, man. Sequoia National Park is pretty fantastic.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:04 PM   #92
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And I really enjoy my trips to lava bed national monument. It's a very striking place, with respect to both the landscape and the hiistorical events that played out there.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:48 PM   #93
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The only good thing in California is the weather, Clint, and relatively rust free surplus buses.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry Rivetboy...
OK, understand that you have no feelings for all of our Family and friends, but the ones that live in Ca. Grandparents and couple hundred nieces, nephews , brothers .sisters. Aunties and Uncles, in laws and quite a few amiable exs , veterans, plenty of friends, aquaintences, felons, parolees, a few drug addicts and even more relatives in Texas, Arizona, Oregon, Washington,Idaho and Colorado are the most important thing in our lives. So , the weather really is superb here and Clint is a personal favorite ,my bus came from Simi Valley school district and has "0" rust.
Have a great Labor Day
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:45 PM   #94
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Apparently not everyone that lives there agrees.[/QUOTE]




That is the beauty of the system, .. you do not have to agree,.. it just happens anyhow.
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:13 PM   #95
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Apparently not everyone that lives there agrees.



That is the beauty of the system, .. you do not have to agree,.. it just happens anyhow.[/QUOTE]


What does that mean? Cal is going to split up? What happens anyhow?

I am going out on a limb & assume that by "system" you mean government. Usually, in my experience, when people refer to the gov as "system" they are talking about how to manipulate the "system" to their advantage. Or how the "system" is going to mess you over.

Do you mean that no matter what you want/think the gov is going to do what it wants?

That statement is so ambiguous that it mean everything and nothing. I could think of a lot of possible meanings. Are you in politics?



I don't know whats up with the quotes
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