Stupid question ???

KaptnKAOS · 07-17-2007, 12:01 AM

Hey All...

This has got to be one of the stupidest questions I have ever had to ask.
.
Does anyone know how to remove the windshield wiper arms on my '68 Ford Bluebird ?
I assumed that they would have the little clips like 67-72 F-series trucks.
Tonight, I messed with removing one of the wiper motors for well over an hour, but could not get the wiper arm off.
arrrrggg ...

Thank you,
KaptnKAOS

wmah · 07-17-2007, 02:05 PM

Its hard to tell exactly what your looks like from the photo. If it has a nut to hold it on the pivot point take the nut off and you may have to work it off. And then it may two pin holes that go through near the pivot point where you slide a nail or paperclip all the way through when you pull the arm outwards and then it will be away from the window then you can work it off.
This is how my 1992 bluebird is and I have seen others this way.

delbertinie · 07-17-2007, 06:29 PM

looks like there is a nut on a splined shaft that the wiper arm is on, right?
after you loosen nut, reverse nut to end of threads. When nut is flush with end of threads, then take a open end wrench put under wiper arm around the shaft. place small pice of wood or srew driver handle ect. under wrench to use as a fulcrum. push on wrench to cause upward pressure on wiper arm, then tap on nut with a brass hammer if you have so you don't mare the shaft.( thats why i told you to back the nut all the way to the end of the threads so you won't damge the shaft) after a few hard raps with pressure applied to the bottom of wiper arm it should pop up. remove nuts take wiper arm off. hope this helps, oh buy the way when you reinstall you might want to use some antiseeze compund on it. chances are the wiper arm is aluminum and the shaft is steel dissimular metals tend to sieze together. If I had and unclose picture I tell you better.
and please pardon my bad grammer and poor spelling. I'm just a dumb body man/mechanic

email me if I can help more\
dale

delbertinie · 07-17-2007, 06:32 PM

wmah may be closer to the mark than I am. I just looked at your front view on your web shots from a distance
dale if his advice doesn't work then try mine

KaptnKAOS · 07-17-2007, 08:01 PM

hey Guys...

I pretty much did delbertinie's suggestion last night to no avail. I tried using a claw hammer, a small prybar, a wrench (that was the first thing I did after removing the retaining acorn nut and lock washer).
This morning before work, I soaked it down real good with some pentrating oil.
I learned today that it is wedged onto a tapered shaft buy the retaining nut. I am assumng that this is the first time that someone has tried to remove it in nearly 40 years and it is just frozen there. I am worried about abusing the shaft very much because when I removed the retaining nut, it looked like some of the threads were stripped.
I was thinking of going to Harbor Freight and getting a small two jaw puller, and getting a standard nut to screw back on until it's flush and use the puller to break it loose...
Any input on that approach?
I will aslo look to see if I see any small holes like wmah suggested.
with it beging a '68 Ford I just assumed that it would come off just like the ones on my '68 F250, but it don't..
Thanks guys...
KaptnKAOS
aka
Allan

the_experience03 · 07-17-2007, 08:16 PM

If you get a puller, get a 3 jaw. I've never had much luck with two jaw pullers. They always seem to just want to collapse sideways. Of course I'm not very patient either. A quick trick I've learned with pullers...tighten it down fairly tight...then smack the object with a hammer. If it doesn't come off tighten it some more...then smack. This is my trick for getting pitman arms off and it seems to work rather well. Just be warned...when it goes it GOES.

delbertinie · 07-17-2007, 09:20 PM

have you got out your butane torch and heated it. It wont't be hot enough to melt the aluminum
last ditch effort.
dale

KaptnKAOS · 07-17-2007, 11:19 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the replys....
I was able to get the wiper arm off without a problem...
I ended up using a home made pickle fork a budy gave me years ago.
I slid it under the arm smacked the end a couple of times and the arm came right off.
The threads were stripped... so I'm not to sure what I'm gonna do about that.
I could probably rethread it to the next smaller size, or go metric?
Unforunately, I did all that work for nothin'. The motor still won't come out.
It seems like the tapered piece with the teeth needs to come off of the shaft as well.
The shaft is a round piece that goes thru the cone shapped piece.
It comes out of the cone with two sides flattened out. Behind it, (going toward the cowl)is a rubber boot that the shaft would have to go thru. Then, there is a nut and spacer. When you loosen the nut, the whole assembly inside moves as if it would come right out if the cone piece came off.
I got everything reassembled, but when I tested it, the wiper arm travel was about half of what it was before I messed with it... I'm not sure wuuuzzuupp with that.
I am unable to look up there and get my hands in there too. I am possitive that the unit was assembled before it was installed, because there isn't any way to disassemble it under the dash.
I can see it enough to tell that... unless there are large headed phillips head screwdrivers 1/4 inch long there is no way possible to get to the screws, unless there were put in before the unit was installed. Even if you get get to the them the screws are longer than the space you have to get them out.
I feel like boxer.. I've gone a few rounds with this thing, and so far Olde Skool is winnin' ....

Take care and thanks for your input...
KaptnKAOS

PS: I wuz gonna take pics, but the batteries in the camera were dead... arrrrggg

delbertinie · 07-18-2007, 11:19 PM

take the wipers back off run it through the motions and make sure the wipers park when you shut them off. In otherwords go to the resting position when they are off then put the wipers back on and try again. The should be really close to operating the way they did before. If not jump 1 or 2 splines back and forth and they should be there. hope this makes sense
let me know if this works dale

delbertinie · 07-18-2007, 11:23 PM

also wiper motors usually are mounted in rubber sleeves between the wiper body and the screw that actually mount them to the body, if they are wore out or gone they let the wiper motor rock back and forth this also makes wiper travel irratic as well.
dale

eggman · 07-19-2007, 10:23 AM

There may be a small roll pin that is pressed in there keeping it from coming apart. I have seen this on a few trucks that I have worked on.

KaptnKAOS · 07-19-2007, 11:57 AM

Thanks Eggman...

I'll check that too... I didn't know that this was gonna turn out to be such a big deal...
All I wanted to do was install an Intermittant wiper switch instead of the stock two speed one...
Now, I have one speed.. "on" and about half of the wiper travel I had before I started... aaarrggg
I do have to admit, it looks alot better...even if it don't work right ... lol

KaptnKAOS

wmah · 07-19-2007, 02:25 PM

You do know that on a bluebird bus with the two speed contol on the dash can be swapped out for a different control that has the delay for the wipers. That is all I did, I just got the other control and changed it. I just had to figure out witch wires to put where.

KaptnKAOS · 07-19-2007, 06:06 PM

Hey Wmah...

Apparently I didn't know that... other wise I would not have gone thru all this work to do a swap.
I can't find squat for info about my '68 Ford Bluebird...
I know a lot about '68 Ford pickups, cause I've had two of them.
The one I have now, I will have had for 20 years in Oct.
It took me a whole 15 minutes to upgrade my '68 pickup to intermittent wipers.
Since the bus is also a '68 Ford I assumed that it would be the same. However, it isn't.

My first assumption: Bus needs intermittent wipers

My second assumption: It's a '68 Ford and should be the same as all the other '68 Fords.
The wires on the bus are individual ones that plug in via bullet style plugs into the back of the original switches, a standard Ford wiper plug would need to be wired in to replace the individual bullet plugs for each switch.
You may or may not be aware that my '68 Ford Bluebird has two separate switches and two separate wiper motors. So, I need two intermittent wiper switches (which I have)
Come to find out that when wired as any other '68 Ford truck (I have the original Ford wiring diagrams for '68 Ford F-series trucks F100-F-750 as well as the factory shop manuals)
When I wired it up, there was constant power to the motor, and the motor would not respond to the switch, so it ran wide open and wouldn't shut off.
The standard '68-'72 Ford truck wiper motor has 4 wires going to it, whereas the motors on the bus only have three.
The newer intermittent wiper switches that swap directly with the '68 -72 Ford trucks each have 6 or 7 wires I can't remember exactly. Two wires can easily be eliminated as they go to the washer motor, which is a separate switch on my bus. The '78-'79 wiper delay units are a direct plug-in swap into the '67-'72 wiring harness and everything will work as intended. In 1980 the wiper delay switch's plugs were slightly re-designed. The '80-'86 units will still plug into the '67-'72 trucks' wiring harness and all normal wiper functions will work, but one wire on the delay unit (the power wire to the washer pump) will need to be moved to supply power to the washer pump.
Since the motors are wired different, it was suggested that I check to see if the motors would interchange... which is what led me through the whole ordeal and brought me to where I am now...
I have one wiper that works with full travel, but only has one speed. The other wiper (which happens to be the driver side wiper) also only has a single speed, but now only has about half the travel as it did before I messed with it. It used to travel from the 10am position to the two pm position. Now, it only travels from 12 to 2. It feels like there is another hole that the cam bolt could go into which would shorten the length of the piece that rotates the shaft, causing the wiper arm to travel farther to the left. However, I am unable to get the bolt into the hole. There is only about 1/4" of clearance and the bolt is 1/2" long. The assembly fits into an upside down u shaped channel roughly 2-3 inches wide by 6 inches long. The motor attaches on one end and the shaft that goes thru the cowl comes out the other end and goes thru the cowl. There is a conical shaped splined piece on the end of the shaft, with about half an inch of threaded rod protruding from that. Eggman suggested looking to see if there was a rolled pin holding the piece onto the shaft... I don't recall seeing one, but if there is that would make matters a lot easier. If I can get the conical piece off the whole assembly will come out in one piece and I could reassemble the linkage correctly and see if the truck wiper motors, I already have can be adapted to fit. (I have two motors, two switches and two intermittent relays).
If you have info about an intermittent wiper switch that might work in place of the stock switches, let me know. I contacted the Bluebird service dept, and they didn't have anything that old.

Thanks...
KaptnKAOS

wmah · 07-19-2007, 06:18 PM

I'd assume you could use one from a 2000 model (which is what I did) and you should be able to make it work. Remember I am assuming.

KaptnKAOS · 07-19-2007, 09:01 PM

Hey Wmah...

2000 what ? Ford or Bluebird ?
Do you have a single switch & motor ?
Having two, I would need two of them wouldn't I ?
The technology has changed so much since '68, I am not sure what interchanges and what doesn't.
I'll stick with my '68 Ford truck.. I had it for 20 years and know nearly every single piece of it personally.
I know what interchanges with what.
I have a '95 Caravan that I can barely change the oil in...
when I look at a newer rig, I get a headache.. what the heck were these guys thinkin '???

Take care KaptnKAOS

wmah · 07-20-2007, 10:14 AM

2000 bluebird
The wiper motors you have now are most likley put there by bluebird and not ford. Your current switch is also most likley put there by bluebird. I have seen them witch two switches and one switch for both. On the one I have it works for both but I am sure if I felt like it I could get another switch and have two switches but it realy isn't a big deal to me since I hardley use wipers anyways. I use rainx on my window and it does a ok job on a bus with flat glass but on my truck it is great and I never use wipers unless I am just going too slow or it is a light drizzle. Rainx works best the faster you go and the harder the rain comes down.

delbertinie · 08-01-2007, 06:59 PM

hey did ya ever get it done or what?
how about asn update
dale

KaptnKAOS · 08-01-2007, 10:57 PM

Hey Guys ...

Sorry for the delay in posting an update...

There really isn't any thing to say... she sits just like she was... except I did manage to get the one nut and bolt on.
I have contacted Bluebird and of course they don't have anything that old...
They did give me the name of a company who might have one of the original switches... one of the originals wasn't any good anyway. I called and emailed them pics of my switch.
I also called and emailed the switch manufacturer today. I sent them the same pics... I havent heard back from either of them
As far as the intermittent wiper update, so far not looking good... the motors on the bus are completly different than the Ford truck ones... so no swap there... I haven't been able to find a manufacturer on the bus wiper motors yet.
One of the main problems is finding out which wire feeds what function on the motor to see how the motor isself is wired. I though I had it figured out, but when I hooked the battery up, the motors got hot fast, and one had not even been turned on so that wasn't right.
So there ya go... it looks like I might have to stick with the one working stock switch I have until I can figure some thing else out.

PS: I was never able to get the splined cone piece of the shaft So I couldnl;t get the assmebly out to see if it could be adapted to be able to use the Ford truck motors.. they won;t swap, but was thinking maybe soemthing could be fabricated to make them work...

KaptnKAOS

KaptnKAOS · 08-05-2007, 11:57 PM

Hey Guys,

Just a quick update on my progress with the wiper situation...
I was finally able to get the bolt in the second hole...
Thought my hand was gonna break in the process, but I got-er done.
Having the bolt in the rear hole, pulled the linkage bar further back, which in turn caused the wiper to follow it's normal arc.
After messing with the wiring, experimenting with every possible connection, came to the conclusion that the 3 wire motor just won't work with any other style switch. In the process, I called Bluebird, who, just like the other wiring problem had nothing that old. They referred me to their NW distributor, who didn't have a clue where I might find something that would work either.
While, trying to figure out how the switch itself worked, I dismantled the non-working switch. I wanted to see if I could make the Ford truck switch do the same thing as the unreplacable Bluebird bus stock switches. After cleaning all the rust and crude of of the switch, I found the name of the manufacturer "Cole Hersee" out of Boston Mass. I gave them a call and they gave me the number of their NW distributer... I called them, and they wanted me to take some pics of the switch and email it to them... which is why I ended up dismantling the one switch, so I could get pics of the parts and connections. While it was disassembled, I cleaned all the parts and carefully reassembled it.
Now, the switch felt like it worked perfect...
After figuring out the function of each of the wires, I hooked the Ford truck switch in the way it should have worked. I got power, so I plugged in the intermittent wiper switch and control box. i had slow, fast and park functions. When I turned the switch to the intermittant position, I had one speed, but no intermttant function. I tried the other IWS and two other control boxes... still, I had nothing more than I could get with a working stock switch... but i had all this extra hardware... well, I figured I might as well try the stock switche since they would gave me the same functions if they worked right... neither of them really did ( one barely worked and the other didn't work at all) which is what started this whole process.
I am happy to report, that everything is reassembled and working to stock specs.. which is still better than what I had before, even if i couldn't get the IWS to work... two speed wipers on both sides is a lot better than none.

KaptnKAOS

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