Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-25-2019, 07:33 AM   #21
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,881
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionsComfortBus View Post
Great post!

I have a appointment scheduled to have my 2 systems checked out. I suspect the front unit has a leak. Its output is not cooling as well as it did when it was first fixed. I am going to ask them to replace ALL the old freon lines, test the rear evap and condensor for leaks, 2 new compressors and maybe that will keep the interior cool(er) than sweating buckets before the AC was fixed.

I have a suggestion. Get your windshield tinted/covered with "Heat Blocking" film. That alone has made such a huge difference. It was pricey $500+ but nearly stopped the greenhouse effect in the drivers area. Its nearly clear so it will not effect night driving PLUS the reduction of UV exposure means less of a chance of getting skin cancer. Any little bit helps.

if you get new compressors, and yours are TM-16 ear mount style.. go with genuine SANDEN sd7H15 Enchanced.. these compressors have higher flow rates. and better flow at idle as well.. they make them in V-belt as well as flat belt drive.. I think yours are V on the DT360 (you lucky dog having 2 compressors on a DT360.. those brackets are absolutely unobtainable and I desperately need a second system...)..




I need to look into this heat film! I dont want to tint the windshield or really tint the windows for that matter but would love to block the heat..


My Andersen House windows have a film or pattern in their glass where they allow heat in at low sun angles such as winter and block it at higher.. and it really works!..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 08:23 AM   #22
Skoolie
 
BusT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Houston
Posts: 107
Year: 2003
Engine: Dt466e
Rated Cap: 30,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdothill View Post
lol truer words couldn't be spoken! i completely agree. the ac is an eyesore-- and literal headache if you keep bumping into it, but DEFINITELY worth integrating into your design if you'll ever be anywhere even "warm."

great post. thanks!
Iíve smacked my head .... HARD on the Ac like 3 times yesterday within an hour. With the trim off . Thought I could be bleeding but now just have a big sore knot on my noggin
BusT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2019, 06:52 AM   #23
Bus Nut
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 989
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
Good factory air is the way to go if you have it. Really do not understand those who take it out.

Mine has. Very tiny in dash a/c. I assume factory built? However the alternator does not get enough belt wrap and since I replaced the alternator with z new and working one the belts tend to slip at high load. So when I changed the engine last winter I left off the compressor . Also moving the radiator forward left little room for the condensor.

So rooftop air and a genny for now. With a curtain to section off just the front and a duct to put the air right where we need it we do stay cool
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2019, 08:20 AM   #24
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,881
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Ronnie.. yours had the optional LoadStar A/C.. International offered it as a Chassis option that wasnt part of the bus body.. it was an Under-dash unit very much like was offered in the Scout-80 (pre 73) or the Scout II (73-up).. its main purpose was to attempt to cool the driver, and to help wirth window defogging..



Superior experimented with it a step further and implemented an evaporator into the 'Circulaire' driver heater box to help with window defogging.. the condenser was in front of the radiator.. and in the Superior application they went to a non-standard taller condensor that covered more of the radiator..


Superior;s attempt iltimately never made it out of test. those busses were tested mainly in ohio, the results were the drivers running both the under-dash and defrosters (heater valve closed).. on hot days and the engine cooling system with belt driven fan at idle couldnt handle the extra condenser load..



Ronnie - did you happen to dave compressor brackets from your 392? I am unable to find any for my Superior and want to Air-Condition that bus...

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2019, 11:11 AM   #25
Bus Nut
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 989
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Ronnie.. yours had the optional LoadStar A/C.. International offered it as a Chassis option that wasnt part of the bus body.. it was an Under-dash unit very much like was offered in the Scout-80 (pre 73) or the Scout II (73-up).. its main purpose was to attempt to cool the driver, and to help wirth window defogging..



Superior experimented with it a step further and implemented an evaporator into the 'Circulaire' driver heater box to help with window defogging.. the condenser was in front of the radiator.. and in the Superior application they went to a non-standard taller condensor that covered more of the radiator..


Superior;s attempt iltimately never made it out of test. those busses were tested mainly in ohio, the results were the drivers running both the under-dash and defrosters (heater valve closed).. on hot days and the engine cooling system with belt driven fan at idle couldnt handle the extra condenser load..



Ronnie - did you happen to dave compressor brackets from your 392? I am unable to find any for my Superior and want to Air-Condition that bus...

-Christopher
Yes I saved everything. If I put some form of engine driven a/c I will start fresh , so you are welcome to the brackets, and the old York compressor.
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2019, 12:19 PM   #26
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Pensacola Fl
Posts: 28
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: International
Rated Cap: 7 Window 20 Passengers
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
OK.. so the heat wave this week and last has brought about quite a few messages to my inboxes on various social media platforms, sites, and my own email... "HELP! I took out my air conditioning to convert and now im sick on the highway...".. or "what can I do to get my A/C back? I gave away the parts...."...



and a couple other variations..





I get it.. you want to maximize your space and have an aesthetically pleasing conversion.. so the first thing you do is pull out those ugly damn things on the ceiling.. and take out those underbody condensors.. and plop a camper A/C on the roof and that will keep everything cool right? after all you are going to spray foam and do the floors and tint the windows...



YES! to some extenmt you are right.. all of this will help that mini split or camper A/C or 2 keep you cool.. .. when you arent creating a 70 MPH windstorm on a 100 degree freeway with gosh knows how many BTU of solar heat blasting in the front windshields as you roll along... just like you find out pretty quickly in cold weather every single air crack in your bus... heat is no different.. and you are essentially putting your bus into a windstorm everytime you drive it.. not to mention if you are front engine there is engine heat... and lots of it...



a conventional school bus from the factory will have 120,000 - 140,000 BTU of air conditioning... and even at that it will take quite a while to make your bus cool inside.. thats right 10-12 TONS.. enough A/C to cool a 40 employee office..


insulating and fixing up cracks and such will make things MUCH better.. but still you arent likel;y gonna be comfy in a heat wave like this with your genny running the minisplit...



one suggestion is that you incorporate your inside units into your build... I was at a bus rally last weekend and a fellow forum member has built his cabinets for his plumbing systems and pumps.. and his electrical systems and panels below those units.. so they are no longer head bangers or are they going to be ugly... they are integrated into necessary components of his build..



second suggestion is remove one system but keep the other.. most busses do have 2 compressors, condensors and 2 or 3 evaporators.. so keep one system mounted near the front where you and your family ride.. that can give you 60,000 BTU of A/C for driving... if you are willing to part with a little coin you can even buy evaporators that mount inside that useless space above your windshield where the school lights used to be...





I talked to one sad soul who bought a beautiful bus in an auction in arizona with 2 A/C's that kept him very comfortable driving in 115 degree heat last year.. only to pull them out.. hacked up all the wires and hoses and threw away the plastic covers for the evaporators and the screens for the condensors... drove his bus on its first camping trip this week.. with his minisplit on .. ended up with heat exhaustion and cut his trip off and came home before ever making it halfway to his first destination.... now he wants his A/C back... its over $3k in PARTS alone to restore those systems from Trans/AIR... the controls... the many feet of hose, all the fittings, wiring harnesses... those plastic evaporator covers? not cheap... and they are the drain pans for the condensate so they are pretty necessary.... Not to mention the labor involved in putting them back together...



LUCKILY he left the compressors and brackets on the engine.. the bracket set for a DT-466E for dual compressors is about $1000 new from bracketry systems...





im not saying dont take out the A/C.. but im saying THINK befiore you do... and if you want A/C in your bus for driving, then hold out for an auction with air-conditioned busses anbd buy one so-equipped.. bus A/C is expensive to add unless you find someone from category A above thats tossing them in the trash...



DRIVE YOUR BUS IN THE HEAT!!! with said factory A/C turned off.. and I mean really drive it... 2-3 hours in the interstate traffic with a few windows open heading into the summer sun.... then go back home and sleep on whether you deal with a little lost space over and under or wish to sweat... make an educated decision..


obviously there are those who plan to chase the 75 degree weather year round ... or live way up in the mountains and travel mainly there which have no use for driving A/C... or your rig is 99% stationary... or just a weekend warrior to the lake and back.. .


but alot of what i read is "we are going to travel the country... " or "spend our summers on the road all over the place".... etc etc...





-Christopher
One of the best articles I have seen on here. I have two units, one has a stuck Osage Valve & the other one need gas doing that today. Plan to get the other one going as well. This small 27 foot handicapped bus generates a ton of heat. I have a new roof top as well but of course can only run that with a generator. I like everybody else thought yank those older units out but glad I didn't. I have put a sink under one & will have other counter space under the other one so I won't bang my head anymore.
MrBoogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2019, 06:39 PM   #27
Bus Nut
 
TJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 368
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
Good thread Christopher! I can't imagine pulling a working or repairable AC system. Part of the reason I bought my bus was because it had AC.

Ted
TJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2019, 11:43 PM   #28
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 806
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Glad you found a source for your bracket, Christopher!
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2019, 06:33 AM   #29
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,881
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Glad you found a source for your bracket, Christopher!

that one will work for the Superior.. im still searching for the brackets for the DT360 on the DEV, I have another lead im working.. the condenser upgrade i did to the DEV bus over the past couple days made a HUGE difference.. the new ACT condenser dropped my inside Discharge air temps by 15 degrees or more.. im now able to get 30 degrees drop across the evaporators with both running on that bus.. plus with more dynamatting and insulating of the firewall and driver footwell areas ive stopped pretty much all the engine heat I can.. theres always going to be some but ive got it down by at least 75%.. to now where the heater panels and other metal around me are cool or just warm to the touch and not hot like previous.



the old condenser was rated 75,000 BTU by the company that sold it to me.. but manufacturing says its 60,000.. well I have close to 70,000 BTU of evaporators.. which technically over-runs the capacity of the compressor.. however the Sanden Enhanced compressor is under-rated on their Spec sheet.. something ive known of sanden for a long time, they are conservative.. I also increased the line sizes.. so instead of 6-8-10. for liquid-discharge-suction. im now at 8-10-12. which is more in line with what I think they should be .. vs the original designer.. i think the "tech" who helped design my original system was out of his element in having me Spec out a completerly custom bus A/C.. I had my ideas he had his.. rather than butt-heads I left the sizing to him as they are the manufacturer of the equipment and know it more than I do.. I been doing A/C (mobile and fixed) a long time but I dont profess to know more than engineers that manufacture the kit.. the new guy at the same place I worked with this time was 100% on-board with my ideas for sizing and the condenser size.. and now I have Ice cold Dash and Mid-ship A/C..



Live and Learn.. I have enough Busses and projects I'll find a home for that under-body condenser, after all it did make my DEV bus drive-able in summer for 3 years.. although maybe just really 2. since last year I blew up the transmission in june and didnt get the new one installed till fall..



the DEV bus is going to get its re-vamped A/C tested as its going to Key west from ohio this week...



IMG_0671.jpg


-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2019, 09:45 AM   #30
Mini-Skoolie
 
Gorzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: St. Charles County Missouri
Posts: 42
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 35
Have you tried making your own penetrating oil. Use a 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. It work very well. There are people that have done YouTube vids on this mixture and say it works better than any store bought stuff.
__________________
Michael G.
1997 Bluebird IH 3800 6 window T444e
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/m...ird-28058.html
Gorzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.