THINK!! before removing your factory A/C!

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

What kind of monster takes a single bite out of a Reeses cup and then sets it down?

lol when its 100 outside it takes one bit for it to melt till it needs to be chilled again!..

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

lol when its 100 outside it takes one bit for it to melt till it needs to be chilled again!..

It was 100 here in Ga. today, 97 at me.

[BarnYardCamp]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet

I could not agree more! This also goes for bus heaters.

I know this is a old thread...
In our first bus, we camped on the north shore of lake Superior in August, 1997 I think.
Ended up buying a electric space heater. When the sun went down we nearly froze.
On another trip in early spring we went to the Mississippi gulf coast, cold and wet weather all the way down. I regretted taking the bus heaters out on that trip as well.

[cadillackid]

im bumping this thread just for kicks..



its late spring and im starting to get the usual PM's on here and on facebook.. "Help I took out my factory A/C and now im sweating"....



its not even june 1 and we have had 3 days near 90f with humidity in columbus ohio... and Ahhhhh!! that 75,000 BTU of ice cold A/C has sure felt good in my DEV bus out on the hot freeways... alas has the 50,000 in my red Bus.. and both busses to handle the brunt of summer really need a few BTU more to keep it nice N cold.. so just thinbk about these numbers.. that an average full size school bus has over 100,000 BTU of factory A/C.. insulating one really nicely.. (floors, factory ceiling remove and insulate, RV windows and sidewalls.. re-sealing the engine compartment).. you can probably get away with half that and still be nice n cool on the hot road.. but dont expect that minisplit or camper A/C to keep it nice N cold on a hot sultry humid day going down the interstate.. .



just for kicks I tried my 12,000 BTU fancy portable A/C in my superior (42 year old bus).. I wrapped the clear shower curtains into a nice cab for me.. yeah I hardly felt more than just some cool air blowing on me.. and my portable is a 2 hose inverter style.. definitely not a way I would want to road-trip across the country...



im not saying dont yank out the air-conditioner? im just saying really think about it before you do it.. oh and if you do decide you dont want it and are near ohio? I'll gladly come and take the air conditioner pieces off your hands.. I have plenty of busses to Air-condition...
-Christopher

[wrenchtech]

It’s nice to have that factory AC, but what do you do when you’re parked for long periods? Nobody wants to idle their bus’s main engine all the time and if you’re in a campground you’re not allowed to make that kind of disturbance anyway. If you’re going to have a whole second system of air conditioning in addition to the factory A/C, I think rooftop units might be nice. Instead of cluttering up your interior with more hardware, you could keep it all outside on the roof. Some large motorhomes and fifth wheel campers have what appears to be three rooftop A/C units. The biggest rooftop A/C units I’ve seen for sale put out 15,000 BTUs. Three of those would give you 45,000 BTUs.That would give you just a little over 1/3 of the cooling power of a full factory school bus AC system. I think it might work if your bus was very well insulated and you were parked and plugged into shore power.

And then you start thinking about how you’re going to heat your bus. Maybe if you’re going to keep it in Arizona or Florida in the winter you can get away with some light duty supplemental heaters. Personally, I like to ski, and I think wintering in Colorado is more my cup of tea. Now the factory heating systems are pretty good, but the insulation is nonexistent. I saw something last winter that was instructive. As I was waiting at a light on a Wisconsin winter evening when it was about 8° I saw a school bus filled with kids pull up next to me and I noticed the windows were completely iced over on the interior side of the glass. Yes all those kids breathing inside the bus generates a pretty humid environment and all that moisture was going right to the windows and freezing on the glass. So I took it as a lesson that there’s only so much even the factory heating system can do in the really cold weather. And then we’re back to that question of how are you going to heat your bus when the engine is not running. Again another set of dual systems. Wow the HVAC infrastructure of the bus is getting pretty crowded and complicated now .

I will just say that I tried to heat an uninsulated 40’ bus last winter in Wisconsin with a 40,000 BTU residential forced air furnace on propane. It was futile. When it was 10° at night I had to run the furnace pretty much without a break to bring the temperature up to 45°. And now that it’s spring (late May) and we’ve had our first days with temperatures in the mid to upper 80s, I’m finding that it’s over 100° in the bus during the day. Luckily I haven’t had to live in the bus so far.

I think the solution that I’m settling on is going to be about 6 inches of foam insulation in the roof and 3 inches in the walls and on the floor, plus the elimination of about 1/3 of my windows. The astute observer will recognize right away that with 6’4” of standard headroom It is going to quickly become a bus for short people or I am going to have to raise the roof, or some of the insulation is going to have to be placed outside of the roof structure. I am leaning towards insulating the exterior of the roof, as I think a roof raise is not a job for me. I would construct some ribs with the correct profile for the roof and depth for insulation. Then I would have to skin it over with some kind of sheet goods, probably 20 gauge steel and of course work out some elegant front and rear contoured panels to make an aesthetically pleasing beginning and ending of the roofline.

Anyway what I’ve learned in the six months that I have owned my bus is that insulation, heat loss and solar gain through the windows, and air tightness have to be addressed before HVAC systems can be spec’d out.

Of course there’s the other school of thought too. It’s the one where you move your bus with the seasons. For example, a well shaded spot in the high country of Colorado to beat the heat of summer and then wintering down in Arizona or Texas. It might work, but almost certainly it’s not always going to work. There are going to be those days when you’re caught out in the hot midday sun or nights where the temperature is dips Into the 20’s, and for that you will have to have to endure more than I am willing to.

[cadillackid]

It doesn’t matter if you are taking short trips or it’s a mainly stationary home.. but I get messages and emails every summer from peeps sweating and can I fix their rooftop AC that “claims to cool 600 soft “ when their bus is 300.

Commercial motorhomes are designed with front dashboard AC usually 25,000 or more btu to cool just the front driver area.. cutaway van motorhomes have 12,000. It’s expected for you to run the generator to cool the living space in the back if people are using it. This works because that space is insulated better and away from the hot windshield( and engine in a front or CE style).

The cooling loss comes from the driving. Your bus is essentially In a windstorm as it traverses the highway. Air leaks from cracks, seals, windows etc are taking in outside heat and sending your cool air outside. Not to mention zero shade and road heat from concrete and other vehicles ..

There are a lot of conversions built that don’t get hyper insulated. Lots of them keep the factory sidewalks and bus windows / bus door. This model works for many as they may not camp in winter. And may park the bus in shady camp areas for their summer trips.. when parked in shade 2 rooftops will make a bus nice n cool on even hot days.. at night you likely only need one.

Driving is a different story.. and many drive lots bs driving a little. This is wherr were keeping at least one of the factory units makes sense.. no not for living but for driving. Making it your only AC is not the idea..

The pints in this thread are that sq ft capacity ratings on the box of AC units don’t apply to a driving bus. It’s closer if you are one who has gutted and spray foamed and built with high quality RV windows.. even stilll you’ll need a few to cool your driving bus. Even minisplit s which will run at 10-20% above rated capacity in turbo mode struggle to cool a moving bus..

[Rsurf]

Does anyone here have experience relocating their internal factory A/C unit?

I've got the big full-width TransAir cooler in the very back of the bus, and would like to move it to the front of the bus. My main goal is to have A/C when I'm driving, and it'll be mostly useless all the way back in the bedroom. I'll put in a separate mini-split in the back for cooling, when I'm parked and on shore power.

[WIbluebird]

Lots of buses have 2 interior evaporator units (my factory Transair setup was 2 units mounted directly across from each other in the middle part of the bus).

Not sure how you could add a 2nd one without some extensive plumbing work. Not saying it couldn't be done but it would take some legwork.

I ended up deleting my factory AC system for 2 reasons. First, the 8.3 Cummins with dual AC compressors have a bad habit of developing front cover cracks over time. Second, there were multiple leaks and both compressors on my system were shot so for the cost of fixing that I was able to buy 2 roof AC units and still have money left over.

[BeNimble]

I plan to repurpose the two condenser units, one for another a/c setup inside, one for the fridge setup. Haven't done it yet, so not too helpful for you right now, but it should work. ;)

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by Rsurf

Does anyone here have experience relocating their internal factory A/C unit?

I've got the big full-width TransAir cooler in the very back of the bus, and would like to move it to the front of the bus. My main goal is to have A/C when I'm driving, and it'll be mostly useless all the way back in the bedroom. I'll put in a separate mini-split in the back for cooling, when I'm parked and on shore power.

I have no experience relocating units, however I do all sorts of other work on bus AC units. It should be fairly simple, it's just wiring for the blowers and rubber hoses. You can either fabricate new hoses, they are custom fabricated to start with, or reroute them. The latter will ensure you won't have to figure out a new charge amount.

Just be mindful that those evaporators can weigh a lot and cracked supports is not an uncommon thing, especially on transit buses. Design accordingly.

Sometimes those big evaporators are actually two separate systems. Take careful note of your system including hose routing and number of compressors and condensers before removing. BTW You should fill in your profile with the information of your bus, it can help for giving advice like this.

[cadillackid]

yep you definitely can move them.. im guessing you have a short bus (bluebird brand)of some short so there is just one Air conditioner in the back cross-wise?


if that was installed at the time the bus was built, you can call or email Trans / AIR and they can look your bus up by VIN and tell you what model number and how many BTU and send you wiring diagrams of your unit which can help in the move..



Trans/AIR usually used full diameter barrier hose with crimp fittings.. you can buy this hose in bulk and the fittings as well.. the crimper you may be able to rent from a NAPA ..


your condensor will stay where it is..



Trans/AIR typically on those cross-back units put two pieces of Unistrut on the roof of the bus and drilled holes down through to hang the ceiling coil.. that unit likely weights 50-75 lbs so get a helper to take it down..


if your system works now you will need to either find someone to recover the freon or if you have the tools and equipment you can do it.. (or if you live in ohio I can do it for you)...


you will need to either replace or alter the Liquid line (goes from condenser up to the evaporator.. and the suction line (larger line that goes from evaporator to compressor)..


wit ha front engine bus you likely will be able to shorten the suction line and just crimp a new fitting on it..



if its like many, you will need to use a new and longer liquid line..



im not sure your plans for mounting the relocated unit.. will it be across the front? or will you try and side mount it? or are you going to build it into cabinetry and duct it?


-Christopher

[cadillackid]

as if being able to stay cool in 104 degree Texas heat isnt enough reason...



here is a pic of my bus after driving 6 hours in a near blinding rainstorm.. kind of mundane.. but Perfectly CLEAR windows free of fogged-up-mess!!. anyone who drove across the great lakes or PA / new york the last couple days will know what im talking about.. the rain was endless and it was often heavy.. outside temp was 60f when i started and 42f when I arrived at the "barn".. that is a recipe for seriously fogged up windows.. trying to open a driver window resulted in being soaked instantly..







so you turn on some heat.. and you crank the A/C!! yes the A/C.. it dehumidifies the inside air very simkilar to how any car with factory A/C (made since the 60s) does.. I used my custom dash A/C to refrigerate the defrost air then re-heat it so I was still warm..



the result was completerly clear glass to see out of and I wasnt soaked, nor was I roasting having to over-use the defroster heat..



my red bus doesnt have custom dash a/c but it has factory ceiling mounted unit.. which dehumifies just as good.. in fact its actually nice as you can have warm air on your feet and cool air on your head.. perfect for driving..


reason 129 to keep your bus's road A/C..

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

as if being able to stay cool in 104 degree Texas heat isnt enough reason...

here is a pic of my bus after driving 6 hours in a near blinding rainstorm.. kind of mundane.. but Perfectly CLEAR windows free of fogged-up-mess!!. anyone who drove across the great lakes or PA / new york the last couple days will know what im talking about.. the rain was endless and it was often heavy.. outside temp was 60f when i started and 42f when I arrived at the "barn".. that is a recipe for seriously fogged up windows.. trying to open a driver window resulted in being soaked instantly..

so you turn on some heat.. and you crank the A/C!! yes the A/C.. it dehumidifies the inside air very simkilar to how any car with factory A/C (made since the 60s) does.. I used my custom dash A/C to refrigerate the defrost air then re-heat it so I was still warm..

the result was completerly clear glass to see out of and I wasnt soaked, nor was I roasting having to over-use the defroster heat..


my red bus doesnt have custom dash a/c but it has factory ceiling mounted unit.. which dehumifies just as good.. in fact its actually nice as you can have warm air on your feet and cool air on your head.. perfect for driving..

reason 129 to keep your bus's road A/C..

THIS. There is a reason that most vehicles cycle the A/C compressor on front windshield defog -- the cooler air it supplies helps to defog the windshield.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.. Three things you don't screw with on a skoolie unless you know what you're doing -- air-conditioning, cooling, and brakes (air or hydraulic).

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

as if being able to stay cool in 104 degree Texas heat isnt enough reason...



here is a pic of my bus after driving 6 hours in a near blinding rainstorm.. kind of mundane.. but Perfectly CLEAR windows free of fogged-up-mess!!. anyone who drove across the great lakes or PA / new york the last couple days will know what im talking about.. the rain was endless and it was often heavy.. outside temp was 60f when i started and 42f when I arrived at the "barn".. that is a recipe for seriously fogged up windows.. trying to open a driver window resulted in being soaked instantly..





Attachment 50523

so you turn on some heat.. and you crank the A/C!! yes the A/C.. it dehumidifies the inside air very simkilar to how any car with factory A/C (made since the 60s) does.. I used my custom dash A/C to refrigerate the defrost air then re-heat it so I was still warm..



the result was completerly clear glass to see out of and I wasnt soaked, nor was I roasting having to over-use the defroster heat..



my red bus doesnt have custom dash a/c but it has factory ceiling mounted unit.. which dehumifies just as good.. in fact its actually nice as you can have warm air on your feet and cool air on your head.. perfect for driving..


reason 129 to keep your bus's road A/C..

the telethon desk is interesting
in a world of "where do I put my wood stove" and you have what looks like norad

love it

can we ask nosey and see the rest?

[Native]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

the telethon desk is interesting
in a world of "where do I put my wood stove" and you have what looks like norad

love it

can we ask nosey and see the rest?

Here is the interesting thing about Christopher's /Dev/Random bus ... it is a standard bus in all respects except for the A/C, engine tune, transmission, driver's heater and dashboard, and a development desk. If you were to see tht picture from the other side, it would look just like a ... what's that word ... school bus.

[cadillackid]

Native has it right!..

See I’m 90% bus enthusiast 10% conversion interest so for me it’s about the Bus and driving it. My other 3 busses are all still completely stock interiors fully seated..



Christopher

[cadillackid]

Since this is an Air conditioning thread....

[veglorde]

Thanks for this thread. I’ll admit I haven’t made it all the way through, but thus far in my search, haven’t see one quite like mine, so here we go...

Carrier in-wall (HV?)AC isn’t necessarily in the way, as it is quite sleek, but honestly, assuming I can only use it while driving, I likely won’t be using this rear unit. This is my solo project, and the only time I’ve turned the rear AC on is when my mom and I transported the bus cross-country. Sure, it helped in the hellish heat of Texas, but we only got about 7mpg while the AC was on, and as long as I’m in the driver’s seat (100% of the time), I don’t plan on using it.

SO, I’m assuming there’s nothing different about removing this one than most other, older models? Probably should have someone remove it professionally (anyone in the Western NC area want this one?), but any other considerations or tips?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cS8...xHzqsh-2J/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qwM...OkUET4B-y/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ztc...smDRhsAMI/view

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Removing factory A/C is a lot like a bad marriage (no offense to the ladies here). Think twice, it's cheaper to keep her!

[cadillackid]

if that is on a separate compressor and condenser from your front unit you surely can yank the rear one and still keep the front one pretty easily. I love those bulkhead units.. my favorite kind of unit.. an d I definitely would have a use for it..



now onto the bus.. theres no info on your bus in the deascription.. is it a van-front bus? or a large bus? are there 2 compressors under the bonnet and 2 condensers? piped separately? 2 sets of controls?



van front busses often share a compresor with the front system but full size busses usually dont unless they used just one l;arge compressor, then it gets more complicated to remove just the rear system.. pics of the underhood area with the compressor would help.



-Christopher