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Old 12-04-2011, 04:03 PM   #11
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Re: Tire replacement costs

Good info. I've always been a fan of Toyo. I would probably use them as steers seeing we dont do a ton of miles. Michelins can be goofy at times on the front, so I have seen. Years ago we ran Michelins on the tandem drives of the Mack tractors we had. It was sand and gravel stuff and they couldnt handle the weight. We ended up going to Toyo and it was much better. Mind you, 25 yrs ago or so.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:07 PM   #12
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Re: Tire replacement costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
Seeing that I just got out of the tire business Ill throw my .02 in there on the subject. Keep in mind I no longer work for the tire company so I will spend your money as if it was mine and yes I like a good deal. I was an account manager for a tire company so I took care of VERY BIG (swift, fedex, Old dominion, arnold) and they buy at national account pricing so that will not come in to play here.

Good tires are expensive for a reason. Are they worth the price.... Yes they are. When we talk about a good tire we are talking about tier 1 manufactures. Those would be Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear and the big boys in the mix.

I am partial to michelin. I toured their plant where they make them so the quality is very good but that comes with that very good price.

Take a moment to access your how you use your bus and match up the tire. If you are a long haul (lots of miles) buy a very good tire. You made a nice investment on your vehicle so please put a good tire that wont give you any issues. If you dont drive that often you can go to a lesser grade tire. You wont get the mileage and wear that a tier one tire will but again it will be reflected in the price. If you are a weekend warrior and only use it a limited amount a cheaper tire wont be out of reason. What comes to mind chinese made tires. They use to be a bargin but the tariffs have made those not so much the bargin any more. if you put these one and are expecting high mileage out of them.... It wont happen. We have seen some semi trucks get less that 20k out of them. Just to get a perspective of what a tier one time will get in mileage. I have seen them go 300k.
Actually,. I was talking to an OTR driver last week. His tractor (a Kenworth T2000) had Doublecoin tires on the front. He said they were his second pair...his first pair of DC steer tires went about 180,000 miles. He then had them capped, they have wound up another 100K as drive tires. They cost about one-third as much as Michelins, half as much as the Kelly-Springfields he used to run, and last just as long. He also noted his last Michelin steer tires were thrown away...when they came off, they had enough sidewall checking that Bandag refused to cap them.

Realistically, the chance of anyone here actually WEARING OUT a 22.5" tire is miniscule. The drive tires on my truck at work have >129,000 miles and more than half their tread remaining.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:31 PM   #13
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Re: Tire replacement costs

A good indicator of how good a tire is.... when you cash it in for casing credit what they are going to give you for it. Tier one tires we gave 50 dollars per 22.5. We were a MRT plant (michelin retread technology) so we would not even touch a double coin even if it fell in to our parameters. I know they are a decent tire but my experience was people put them on there to just get from one place to another cause most drivers curbed them so bad they usually blew out the sidewalls. So they didnt think it was worth putting a good tire on their trucks.

I know many fleets I put Michelins on their trucks the picked up on average 3 mpg and sometimes more. Granted putting the right tire, with the right load range, and proper air pressures is everything. There was a customer who was a die hard michelin fan and got in to rock hauling. His selection was not correct for that application. I put him is a set of BFG dr444's and it was a night and day results. There are some good tire dealers out there but there are way more tire sellers (people that look more at the price and their commision) who dont know enough about tires and when people run them and they get a poor result they lable "x" tire as a bad tire? Not a very good way to look at it scientifically.

Toyo is not a bad tire. They have some speciality tires that are REALLY good in their application. But as said.... Unless you roll a crap load of miles you wont wear out a set of tires on a bus. This is why I said to look in to recaps for the drives. They should have the same cost per mile as virgin rubber.

I can not stress enough... air pressure... air pressure. its the life blood of tires... on trucks and cars both. That and making sure you have a good alignment. That is usually the death of steers when a truck is out of alignement or has worn parts that causes premature wear.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:52 PM   #14
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Re: Tire replacement costs

I talked with an independent tire guy today. This place sells a lot of tires, including Double Coin. He said DC has the best casing out there. They sell a lot of them and the biggest issues they have are from the people that wont buy them because they dont have a brand name. He also said none of the tires ever come back with issues.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:04 AM   #15
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Re: Tire replacement costs

As said I did work for Michelin and they have the highest stanard for casing criteria when it comes to retreading. I use to talk to a lot of guys that worked for Bandage they will do them but they work on volume so short of having holes in it like swiss cheese they will retread anything.

You can make anything work.....They to me are a good spare tire, Just my opinion.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:09 PM   #16
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Re: Tire replacement costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
A good indicator of how good a tire is.... when you cash it in for casing credit what they are going to give you for it. Tier one tires we gave 50 dollars per 22.5. We were a MRT plant (michelin retread technology) so we would not even touch a double coin even if it fell in to our parameters. I know they are a decent tire but my experience was people put them on there to just get from one place to another cause most drivers curbed them so bad they usually blew out the sidewalls. So they didnt think it was worth putting a good tire on their trucks.
Lately, DC's share of the market has EXPLODED. They are pretty common on OTR trucks and coach buses...I have seen them capped by Bandag, Goodyear, and Oliver. I recall International is installing them on new school buses.

Quote:
I know many fleets I put Michelins on their trucks the picked up on average 3 mpg and sometimes more. Granted putting the right tire, with the right load range, and proper air pressures is everything. There was a customer who was a die hard michelin fan and got in to rock hauling. His selection was not correct for that application. I put him is a set of BFG dr444's and it was a night and day results. There are some good tire dealers out there but there are way more tire sellers (people that look more at the price and their commision) who dont know enough about tires and when people run them and they get a poor result they lable "x" tire as a bad tire? Not a very good way to look at it scientifically.
Anyone that claims to pick up 3MPG from changing tire brands on a commercial truck is LYING!

Quote:
Toyo is not a bad tire. They have some speciality tires that are REALLY good in their application. But as said.... Unless you roll a crap load of miles you wont wear out a set of tires on a bus. This is why I said to look in to recaps for the drives. They should have the same cost per mile as virgin rubber.
Actually, I have found they usually last LONGER. They are between 1/3 and 1/2 the cost of new tires.

After the way they treated people unlucky enough to have XRV tires, I will not use Michelins under any circumstances.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:10 PM   #17
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Re: Tire replacement costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
As said I did work for Michelin and they have the highest stanard for casing criteria when it comes to retreading. I use to talk to a lot of guys that worked for Bandage they will do them but they work on volume so short of having holes in it like swiss cheese they will retread anything.

You can make anything work.....They to me are a good spare tire, Just my opinion.
Bullshit. Absolute total and utter bullshit bordering on libel.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:57 PM   #18
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Re: Tire replacement costs

Dont want to get in to a pissing match with you. Apparently you know more than Michelin? I know we graded them as a C grade casing..... Period. New, used or other wise.

Michelins casing criteria is 10 years or less for a c grade casing. I know the bandag retreader in Dallas retreaded a casing from 1999 cause I did some scrap analysis in the dead pile at Swift in Lancaster Texas.


As for their explosion in the market.... Easy to justify. People buy cheap when money gets tight. Any retreader will cap them, NOW.... will they warranty them thats the bigger question. This is why Michelin has no issue backing up their warranty cause they go through a more stringent series of testing than any other retreader in the business. This is why Michelin has the highest rejection rate of any retreader.

3mpg is not hard to get when their air pressures were no where close to what they needed to be let alone they went to a tire compound that had a much better rolling resistance. I know this for a fact... I did the mileage calculations. But what they hell do I know... I use michelins and not double coins?


I have never ever said Michelin was ever a cheap product. I will never say that. They are expenisve for a reason their a good product. They are the best tire I have ever used on my personal truck. There is a reason why a Lexus is considered the benchmark of luxury cars for most of the common people. Its a quaility product but it also comes with a price.

Again.... Im just adding my personal experience in the tire business. I think a lot of people are not well educated on the subject. Again let them decide for themselves. Im sure with whatever they decide to put on for a 2nd set will let tell the tale.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:58 PM   #19
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Re: Tire replacement costs

Interesting discussion. Lots to learn about brand names. I will keep this all in mind.

Sometimes the brand name in any product is nothing but advertising. Sometimes the Toyota is equal to the Lexus. The few trips I have driven in CDL vehicles did not involve any tire servicing or changes, etc. I have experiences with various passenger and light truck tires only.

For example, the new work Chevy in '86 came from the factory with Tiger Paws, and they wouldn't hold the road unless it was bone dry. The truck would turn sideways at 30 MPH if it hit a spot of geezer spit. I was glad when they wore out in under 30,000 miles. I discovered [EDIT 2: COOPER] made a good rain tire, which is what I had needed for driving 365 days/year in rain, snow, sleet, etc. (EDIT 1: I have been buying them for over two decades.) I used to get 60,000 miles of on and off road use out of a pair, 12 months as steers (winter/summer) followed by another summer on the rear when the snows came off. Last tire replacement for our personal car, an independent dealer let me know Kelly also made MasterCraft, and I have been getting good service from a set in all kinds of weather on our AWD, despite the unknown name.

What the equivalent of these brands are in the truck world, I had no clue. I expect whatever I buy for a used skoolie will need new shoes pretty much right away. Thanks to all of you with personal experiences chiming in with your stories.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:00 PM   #20
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Re: Tire replacement costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
Dont want to get in to a pissing match with you. Apparently you know more than Michelin? I know we graded them as a C grade casing..... Period. New, used or other wise.
Who graded whom as a "C" grade casing?

Quote:
Michelins casing criteria is 10 years or less for a c grade casing. I know the bandag retreader in Dallas retreaded a casing from 1999 cause I did some scrap analysis in the dead pile at Swift in Lancaster Texas.
So? If the casing is in good shape, I do not see the problem. There's an old pup trailer where I work that has tires (10.00-20) from 1996 and 1998 on it...one looks to have been capped at least twice, maybe more.

Quote:
As for their explosion in the market.... Easy to justify. People buy cheap when money gets tight. Any retreader will cap them, NOW.... will they warranty them thats the bigger question. This is why Michelin has no issue backing up their warranty cause they go through a more stringent series of testing than any other retreader in the business. This is why Michelin has the highest rejection rate of any retreader.
No idea. Never been an issue for me, I haven't bought truck-sized caps. (My F350 & my wife's Blazer run Treadwright caps. Mine are 265/75R16E on BFG All-Terrain casings, hers are 33x12.50R15C on BFG MT casings.) I know Bandag warrantied a cap on a Hankook RH01 casing on my B700.

[qquote]3mpg is not hard to get when their air pressures were no where close to what they needed to be let alone they went to a tire compound that had a much better rolling resistance. I know this for a fact... I did the mileage calculations. But what they hell do I know... I use michelins and not double coins?[/quote]

That's not what you said. You claimed, "I know many fleets I put Michelins on their trucks the picked up on average 3 mpg and sometimes more." Again: anyone claiming to get 3MPG more (about a 25-30% jump!) from changing only tire brands is LYING.

Quote:
I have never ever said Michelin was ever a cheap product. I will never say that. They are expenisve for a reason their a good product. They are the best tire I have ever used on my personal truck. There is a reason why a Lexus is considered the benchmark of luxury cars for most of the common people. Its a quaility product but it also comes with a price.
They are expensive for a reason, all right: the name molded in the sidewall! That, and the fact that thousands of drones will line up to get overcharged. They will frequently defend Michelin, often with religious fervor, not wanting to admit that they paid three times as much as they should have.

One of the drives on my bus is a Michelin...it is coming off before next spring...I'm probably paranoid, but I do not like the big sidewall scuff.
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