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Old 12-21-2015, 07:17 PM   #1
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Trying to Decide between Two Buses

I am looking to buy my first bus to convert. I am trying to decide between these two:

1) 1993 International Genesis DTA360 Diesel, Auto, Hydraulic Brakes 8 row@ BGA School Buses, Inc. Hudson, FL

2) 2004 International Bus, Jacksonville FL - 113560700 - CommercialTruckTrader.com

The biggest differences I can discern are:

#1 = bump out giving me more headroom, painted, good tires, no rust that I could find *I have looked at this one in person

#2 = bigger DT466, 11 years newer *I plan to go look at this one soon

Any opinions on which I should go with? Although #2 is newer, maybe the 1993 was a better year?

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Old 12-21-2015, 11:01 PM   #2
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I would say that the first one is $9000 to expensive. I would pay $2000 without AC.
The second one is still way to overpriced. I would pay $4000-$5000 without AC.
I don't know how AC affects bus prices but I don't think it's that much.

Keep in mind that international "IC" busses are bout 5 inches narrower than say a blue bird or Thomas. The rear caps appear to rust out really badly also.

I think you should keep looking.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:20 AM   #3
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The 04 looks like its got a big ding over the 3rd window.

I've got a 9 window flat nosed bus. It's a 1988 bluebird tc2000 w/ 5.9 Cummins and AT545. I paid $2,500. It has 16x,xxx miles and 8,800 hours on it. No air conditioning.
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Old 12-22-2015, 09:31 AM   #4
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Update on Bus #1

Thank you for this helpful advice. It was just what I was looking for.

I just received more info on bus #1. I can get it for $9500. It has 4 new tires on the back, and the two on the front have about 80% tread left on them. The engine was also rebuilt about 40k miles ago. I am finding out what the "rebuild" entailed. Looking at the engine and other mechanical components, you can tell that this bus has just had a full service (new filters, fluids, grease). The paint job is brand new, and they did a commendable, professional job of it. They have also removed and covered with riveted panels the red/yellow blinker lights in front and rear. I guess all of this should add up to about $4000 in value, correct?

Thank you again for the experienced advice.
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:55 AM   #5
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Hank is incorrect about the widths of buses. All full size Type 'C' and Type 'D' buses are 96" wide.

The fact bus #1 is painted white does lend some additional value to the bus.

I would agree that both are way overpriced for what they are.

IMHO, I would go with the bus with the DT466. The DTA360 is a good little engine but in bus #1 it is the 170 HP version. If you ever expect to do highway miles and go over mountains you will find 170 HP lacking in the go department.

The two real advantages I see that bus #1 has are it is already painted white and it is a mechanically controlled bus. Painting a bus is a lot of work but you can do it in your driveway and get a credible job for a lot less than $4K. Electronics usually have no problems by the time buses are as old as bus #2 is.

All in all, both appear to be good buses. Both are waaaaaaaaaaay over priced.

At the end of the day I always say go with the one with the better engine.

Good luck and happy trails.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:10 AM   #6
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Very helpful. Thank you. While my lanky frame would REALLY appreciate the bumped up roof on #1, I am leaning towards the larger engine and rawness of #2...if I can get it for about half of what they are asking. Will post if/when I pull the trigger.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:49 AM   #7
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I vote for....Keep looking.
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank's P-O-S View Post
I would say that the first one is $9000 to expensive. I would pay $2000 without AC.
The second one is still way to overpriced. I would pay $4000-$5000 without AC.
I don't know how AC affects bus prices but I don't think it's that much.

Keep in mind that international "IC" busses are bout 5 inches narrower than say a blue bird or Thomas. The rear caps appear to rust out really badly also.

I think you should keep looking.
That's wishful thinking. $2k for a short bus with 102k miles, A/C, and painted already. I don't think so. It looks like no rust. 4 new 11R22.5 tires would be at least $1200 for cheap Chinese. A cheap paint job would be at least $2k. How much is A/C worth to you? With the way the prices are going on the auction sites, this bus would bring at least $4-6k.

Also, the seller is a dealer. He is in business to MAKE MONEY, not give stuff away. What makes you think that he will do all the legwork and not mark it up.

I do agree that the prices are too high but they are just a starting point. The post by cowlitzcoach is spot on but I wouldn't want the second bus with the electronics.

Last thought, how far away is the bus? Is it in your backyard? That could be worth anywhere from $500 to $2000 to get a bus home. Airfare, fuel, meals, lodging, money for repairs.
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:18 PM   #9
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I vote for....Keep looking.

Deals do come up sometimes. Someone just bought a bus in Spokane for $1300. It looked like a nice bus. But those deals don't come along every day.
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Old 12-22-2015, 02:08 PM   #10
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Thanks, crazycal. Bus #1 is close enough that I could pick it up quite easy and drive it home. I am thinking that if I could pay $8500 (considering the very good condition it is in), I'd be on the high end of an acceptable deal. Part of the that price would be the fact that I love the look and feel of that bus. It's a little brute.

I am having second thoughts on its DTA360 engine though since I do plan on driving out west over some formidable terrain. At the same time, I don't mind going a bit slower than buses equipped with the DT466, and I like the idea of gaining a couple more miles per gallon. The bus is 27.5 feet long, so I do not feel that it is grossly underpowered. I am trying to stick to just under a 30 foot rig so that I can access most national park campgrounds.
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Old 12-22-2015, 02:16 PM   #11
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I would prefer a mechanical DT466. The other thing to look at is the transmission. That bus has an AT545. No lockup. Bad for the open road especially if you hit mountains. The other transmission to look for is the MT643. It has lockup in 3rd and 4th. Much more heavy duty.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:27 PM   #12
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Update

Bus #2 was just sold. Someone liked what they saw and was willing to pay up.
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal View Post

Last thought, how far away is the bus? Is it in your backyard? That could be worth anywhere from $500 to $2000 to get a bus home. Airfare, fuel, meals, lodging, money for repairs.
I have to agree with Crazycal, those additional fees are something you need to keep in mind. The seller is overpriced but is in the business to make money. If you could get him to drop 3k-4k on his prices they seem like a pretty good deal. I live in Houston (960 miles away) and his price to deliver it to me is only $1300. To me that is worth it compared to what I would spend going to get it myself and putting up with the aggravation of it breaking down along the way.

Best of luck to you in whatever direction you decide to go in.
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Old 12-22-2015, 05:04 PM   #14
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I vote for KEEP Looking. I paid $8K for my 84 passenger Thomas HDX and it has MUCH more room.

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Old 12-22-2015, 07:21 PM   #15
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Agreed, keep looking. I paid 2500 for my 2003 75 pax Amtran.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Hank is incorrect about the widths of buses. All full size Type 'C' and Type 'D' buses are 96" wide.

.
My appologies! I do not mean to spread misinformation.
I misspoke. What I should have said is:

I Have never seen any data sheets, or actually mesured one, however, having riddied several times on IC busses they seemed much narrower. Based on seat and isle guess-estimations and measuring with my arm.

I have found from a rider stand point, that I don't like IC busses.
On busses that were bought different years by different companies I was not able to fit in the bus seat. I am 5'7'' and 180 lbs, I have never ever encountered that on any other bus.
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:00 AM   #17
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$2K for my '89 Thomas Saf-T-Liner. Better deals ARE out there!
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Old 12-24-2015, 09:29 AM   #18
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If I had to, I'd probably choose the 2nd one. Although both are overpriced imo, the 2nd one should have a newer Allison electronic trans with OD. While the 1st probably has an at545. Both engines are great, with my preference going to the dta360 purely because it's mechanical. If you're worried about the 360's power, a pump shop can bump that up but with the at545 I wouldn't do it.

I'd look for something similar to the 2nd but a little better priced imo. I'd also want something longer if you're going to be traveling with it. Floor space seems to be a premium for the full timers.
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Old 12-29-2015, 07:41 AM   #19
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Update on Bus #1

Bus #1 also just sold. I've learned that 8 row models with desirable features demand a higher price than their counterparts with more rows. The market value reflects the fact that they are harder to come by.
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