Won a pretty nice bus at auction, but then I realized it had a CAT3126 - Page 3

jake_blue · 06-02-2016, 04:05 AM

Gearing is exactly why I walked away from mine.

EastCoastCB · 06-02-2016, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake_blue

Gearing is exactly why I walked away from mine.

Whenever I bid on a bus, one of the few questions I ask EVERY time is "what's the rear axle ratio?"

jake_blue · 06-02-2016, 07:09 AM

And that's one of the reasons I'm not big on auctions as a source for buses. If the used bus dealer doesn't know how to find out the information with access to manufacturer build information, how confident can a buyer be that an auction seller isn't just making stuff up to push the auction through... And once you find out it was wrong or misleading then it's either too late or a huge PitA to try to get your money back. And as the OP said to launch this thread, it's also easy to confuse details between auction listings. I think last year someone posted about accidentally bidding on and winning two different listings. All that to say that yes there may be deals out there at auctions but please PLEASE know what you're doing and know what you are getting. And as disappointed as I am about not getting the bus I was looking at I'd rather be disappointed than saddled with a bus I can't use or that will cost me twice what I wanted to spend in mods to make it what I wanted in the first place.

EastCoastCB · 06-02-2016, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake_blue

And that's one of the reasons I'm not big on auctions as a source for buses. If the used bus dealer doesn't know how to find out the information with access to manufacturer build information, how confident can a buyer be that an auction seller isn't just making stuff up to push the auction through... And once you find out it was wrong or misleading then it's either too late or a huge PitA to try to get your money back. And as the OP said to launch this thread, it's also easy to confuse details between auction listings. I think last year someone posted about accidentally bidding on and winning two different listings. All that to say that yes there may be deals out there at auctions but please PLEASE know what you're doing and know what you are getting. And as disappointed as I am about not getting the bus I was looking at I'd rather be disappointed than saddled with a bus I can't use or that will cost me twice what I wanted to spend in mods to make it what I wanted in the first place.

Its not real hard to figure out what to look for.
You will pay 2-3x as much to buy the exact same bus from a dealer than you can buy at an auction. Dealers really DON'T do much other than buy up all the buses and play middleman. A dealer is MUCH more likely to lie to you than a secretary at the school board.

cadillackid · 06-02-2016, 07:35 AM

if you can find out where a bus came from, the fleet managers are often more than willing to talk about it..

I do all correspondence in email for any vehicle I buy... if I asked the rear gear ratio and they say "4.78" in an email and I get a bus that has a "5.31" i have a pretty damn good case against their reputation and possibly legally.. if a dealer lies to you on the phone or in person.. not much you can do..

obviously the best is if the busses are somewhat close to you and are allowed ot be inspected so you can crawl under and get the info off of the tags.. or perhaps see what the schools it came from were to try and contact them...

if they are a manufacturer still in business i thought I read somewhere someone that contacted blue bird or thomas and was able to find out what the bus had by the VIN.. (manufacturer has records on what was put on the bus.. the line card)..

-Christopher

RC000E · 06-02-2016, 09:57 AM

With any auction, you should obviously try and fill as many blanks as possible, but the risk of some auctions simply are that information is limited. On the same token, those buses tend to go at auction cheaper as a result, due to higher risk.

Doing some research, which is pretty limited on this Thomas, this black surround headlight saftliner was designed to compete with Crowns and Gilligs. They even offered a "WestCoasterER" option that installed the detroit 6v92 engine in it. So, I think it's hit or miss on what gearing this bus has. End of day, it's a 3500 bus...I figured I can't lose. The bus has to at least pull 4500 via craigslist (if not more), which will likely be near break even post transportation/registration/titling costs, so that I can resell it.

That said...I'm not sure I care what gearing it has. Numerically higher gearing would make it pull a trailer a bit better, and if its 55 on the highway so be it. My former Class A I never took above 60 and I did back and forth cross country trips with it. Frankly, I am exhausted doing interstate highway travel anymore, as the country just blows by you. I'm interested in a bit more secondary road travel, even at the slight expense of mpg. RV'ing should really be about the ride, not so much point to point travel. You can do point to point traveling via airplane.

EastCoastCB · 06-02-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC000E

With any auction, you should obviously try and fill as many blanks as possible, but the risk of some auctions simply are that information is limited. On the same token, those buses tend to go at auction cheaper as a result, due to higher risk.

Doing some research, which is pretty limited on this Thomas, this black surround headlight saftliner was designed to compete with Crowns and Gilligs. They even offered a "WestCoasterER" option that installed the detroit 6v92 engine in it. So, I think it's hit or miss on what gearing this bus has. End of day, it's a 3500 bus...I figured I can't lose. The bus has to at least pull 4500 via craigslist (if not more), which will likely be near break even post transportation/registration/titling costs, so that I can resell it.

That said...I'm not sure I care what gearing it has. Numerically higher gearing would make it pull a trailer a bit better, and if its 55 on the highway so be it. My former Class A I never took above 60 and I did back and forth cross country trips with it. Frankly, I am exhausted doing interstate highway travel anymore, as the country just blows by you. I'm interested in a bit more secondary road travel, even at the slight expense of mpg. RV'ing should really be about the ride, not so much point to point travel. You can do point to point traveling via airplane.

That's the spirit, man!
I know people who go coast to coast @ 55mph in buses.

RC000E · 06-02-2016, 10:33 AM

Yeah, my true intent is to somewhat micro explore the west, so given the terrain, hill climbs, etc, having a bit of extra torque multiplication via diff is fine with me. I've literally blanketed the Appalachians every which way I could dissect it, so I would like to do the western states. I believe most people often plan for the extremes, versus the mean average. I've traveled this country pretty extensively, major cities, all the major highways, via car, via train, via motorhome. I'm at the point now that i just really want to SEE some states, off the highway. Granted I have to get from the east to the west but, I'm cool with 55mph. Less passing necessary, easier driving, safer, a myriad of reasons.

If you have to do 70-75mph in a motorhome, then the old life routine must be waiting for you to get back to the grind, so you're in a hurry...what kind of vacation is that...lol. Truckers see the country at 70mph, RV is supposed to be about recreation.

Tango · 06-02-2016, 10:40 AM

I much prefer driving the backroads. It is one of the reasons I am building an RV...to see what's out there off the beaten track. But...I am also a believer in appropriate gearing because there will be times when you will almost certainly HAVE to take an Interstate or expressway. And given the average speed limits these days, anyone going too slow on them is a hazard and likely to get ticketed. The other side of appropriate gearing is being able to make reasonable speed without stressing the engine and wasting fuel. Many of the newer units are capable of getting along just fine for those limited but necessary stretches at reasonable highway speeds, but some just cannot be safely driven on any modern highway.

Mine for example.

Given that it was built before the US Interstate system even began construction, it was geared "appropriately for it's day". Top speed...40 - 45 MPH. That will get you killed just about anywhere today, so I really had no choice but to upgrade the engine & gearing...which also necessitates upgrading the handling & brakes.

My point is simply to make sure before buying any rig that you will actually be able to use it for YOUR intended purposes. That is what makes it vital to know up front what the gearing, top speed and RPM's are over the road. From there, at least you will be informed as to whether and buy and drive as is...or be prepared to modify as needed.

RC000E · 06-02-2016, 11:43 AM

On my bus:

I called Thomas to get some VIN specific details. They said my bus has spring front suspension and air ride rear. Allison MD3060 transmission with city gearing in the 5.xx range. So...we'll see. I need to call Allison for more specific info they said.

jake_blue · 06-02-2016, 11:47 AM

I've researched the MD3060 extensively so feel free to let me know what you'd like to know.

RC000E · 06-02-2016, 12:08 PM

I've talked to Allison here in the past few minutes. Seems to be up in the air whether the 2nd overdrive is available or optioned out. Either way, it seems the 5th gear is an overdrive gear, not 1:1, like apparently some bus transmissions have. The rear end ratio is still only a factor based upon your transmission gearing, so I just wanted to be clear where we are here.

So, knowing the tire size, rear diff and 5th, I'm calculating speeds/rpms as we speak here.

RC000E · 06-02-2016, 12:32 PM

So, the tire size on the bus is 295/75R22.5, a 40" overall diameter tire
The MD3060 5th gear shows it at .75:1
My bus has a 5.63 rear axle ratio
So speed/rpm is:

55mph 1950 rpm
60mph 2128 rpm
63-64mph 2250 rpm, limit of the 3126 CAT 250hp engine

IF 6th can be unlocked (or isn't locked at all):

55mph 1691 rpm
60mph 1844 rpm
65mph 1998 rpm
70mph 2152 rpm
73mph Limiter

Dooable I think. I've searched to see if Allison will unlock the 6th, and have gotten mixed responses and experiences. The Allison guy on the phone said they would, but...who knows.

Point is, rear axle ratio doesn't say it all if you don't know the transmission type/gearing.

RC000E · 06-07-2016, 10:45 PM

Stopped in Louisville on a trip I'd made this past weekend. I decided to look at the bus in person and then leave a deposit. Bus looked very clean inside and out, I felt pretty good about it.

128k on the odometer

Hrs on the tach

opus · 06-07-2016, 10:53 PM

Nice!

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cadillackid · 06-08-2016, 05:14 AM

in my experience you'll fid that driving a school bus over 65 isnt always as easy or comfortable as it seems... esp if you are in traffic, hills, wind, etc... your bus may be heavy enough and have enough power that unlocked 70 MPH would be perfectly fine.. but many busses ive driven after 65 they can get a bit squirly...

-Christopher

Tango · 06-08-2016, 07:48 AM

One of the issues in the bus driving learning curve that many people don't take into account until it scares the beejeezus out of them is crosswinds. Whether natural or from a line of tractor trailers. Most buses are built like a pair of billboards and it really doesn't take that much moving air to start seriously pushing them around. You have to keep up with crosswind conditions or you can find yourself either in a ditch or headed into oncoming traffic.

Be careful out there.

cadillackid · 06-08-2016, 08:34 AM

the other piece is driving a flat-nose bus... the steering reaction-perception often gets a lot of people with the bus swaying... or people try to correct every little movement the bus makes within a lane...

when a tractor trailer passes you.. its tendency is to suck the bus in.. when the trailer passes the tendency is to blow the bus away... you may have to correct a little if the windows are just right... otherwise I tend to let the bus suck in a little knowing it will blow right back when the trailer passes...

the bigger the tires you have typically the more steering input you perceive to need because the reaction is not instant... the tire actually flexes a bit and the gyroscoping of a spinning round object makes you think you moved the wheel and nothing happened.. then the tire "catches up" in direction to the rim and the bus changes direction...

many car-drivers criticize semi trucks for seemingly "moving around within their lane".. when in actuality its a relaxed driver not stressing over little movements.. knowing how their truck reacts...

its all a learning experience and driving the bus is the best way to get used to it...

the faster you go the more gyroscoping effect of the tires and more effects of wind...

I like to run fast enough to be safe in traffic but not so fast that its no longer fun to drive..

in the hills its perfectly acceptable to drive nice N slow if that makes you feel more comfortable behind the wheel.. hills / mountains often bring some fierce winds...

-Christopher

RC000E · 06-08-2016, 08:46 AM

Interestingly, this past trip I took was in my large box truck. As stated prior, I simply don't drive the box truck over 60 as is. 60 is a comfortable highway speed that many semi's run at, and frankly you're not always doing lane changes to pass either, which makes the drive easier. The difference between 60 and 65 mph, across the country adds up to small advantages in time, so if you're making money for your mileage so be it. For recreational purposes though, I don't see the need whatsoever. In my case, while my box truck is monetized, I drive slower because my trucks brakes just aren't fantastic, and the gas mileage is better at a slower speed.

For me, unlocking or having 6th is more about running 60 at 1850rpm vs running 70mph down the road. I want the gear for reduced wear and gas mileage.

On the high profile, blowing around deal, that's definitely a fact I got familiar with in my class a that I had. I went from PGH to Las Vegas for SEMA and decided to take my motorhome. I was approaching toward Vegas from the south and nearing the area of the Hoover Dam. The winds were very gusty and it was moving anything with large profiles all over the place. Here, as I turn the corner and approach this bridge, a sign says "High profile vehicles use the center lane to cross bridge"...something along those lines, then a flashing sign saying "High Crosswinds"...I was like...awww hell...lol. It was interesting I tell you that....but yeah, you have to learn to get comfortable letting them move around a bit beneath you, instead of fighting every twitch.

My old whore here:

RC000E · 06-08-2016, 09:15 AM

I uploaded my snapchat vid I sent to a few people. I'm in the end...sorry. I got an old 240Z that I'm restoring and had to pick up the body. Officially the third car I've transported in my box truck...lol.

Here's a quick vid of the bus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiFWN5L7DCM

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