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02-23-2012, 06:34 PM
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#41
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MNT CITY TN
Posts: 5,158
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Mmm...we are planning three zones,bedroom,kitchen/lounge and driver/navigator....what is your 4th zone(or room)?
Are you planning to "heat" tile and other type heat sinks?or just wood floors
__________________
Our build La Tortuga
Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.
George S. Patton
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02-23-2012, 09:04 PM
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#42
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,489
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/AT545
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Wow, dude, that's cool. I mean... warm.
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02-23-2012, 09:30 PM
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#43
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon/Philippines
Posts: 1,660
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Looks very good.
__________________
Jesus Christ... Conversion in progress.
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02-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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#44
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,436
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Quote:
Mmm...we are planning three zones,bedroom,kitchen/lounge and driver/navigator....what is your 4th zone(or room)?
Are you planning to "heat" tile and other type heat sinks?or just wood floors
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My four zones are bedroom,bathroom,kitchen, and front computer/living area. Floor will be 3/4 plywood that has a plastic coating on both sides. Pex will be in a sandwich with plenty of room around it for warm air to circulate (ie: not captive in grooves) I am also adding provision to put a heater/fan in each room if needed. Original front heat/defrost will be plumbed into the front zone.
I'm not an engineer, but I have been around the block a few times. I don't really know if any of this will work, but I will have warm floors.
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02-24-2012, 09:59 AM
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#45
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Almost There
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Burton,Ohio
Posts: 77
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: Genesis
Engine: Cornbinder 466
Rated Cap: 71
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Your doing all of this just for your dogs comfort? Good dogdad... Looks great, what type of compression tool are you using on the rings?
Tracy
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02-24-2012, 10:12 AM
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#46
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,436
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Actually the dogs will probably think it's too warm, although Kate will be 9 this year and may be looking for a warmer spot.
I got this tool from Lowes.com
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1
I wanted the one with the ratchet for tight spaces. I had to order it on line, the stores seem to carry the Apollo brand that has a lot of bad reviews. This one has good reviews.(It's probably the same tool with different colored handles)
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02-24-2012, 11:27 AM
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#47
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Almost There
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Burton,Ohio
Posts: 77
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: Genesis
Engine: Cornbinder 466
Rated Cap: 71
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Thanks,
I have been wondering which to buy once I start running plumbing. Looks like it will work in tight spaces as well. I have a place I can rent one from but as you know its always better to have your own.
Tracy
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02-24-2012, 06:54 PM
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#48
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Sounds like it could be really cozy, but I have to wonder about condensation on the lines in the closed plywood areas. Packed into concrete, it's not really an issue, but plywood, even coated...and mold...??? Just thinkin out loud.
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02-26-2012, 07:01 AM
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#49
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,436
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Quote:
I have to wonder about condensation on the lines
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Unless you have some information I don't, condensation is only a problem on pipes with water that is colder than the air temp around them.
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02-26-2012, 09:38 AM
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#50
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 635
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Bookmobile body by Farber
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466/Alison MT643
Rated Cap: 1
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa
Unless you have some information I don't, condensation is only a problem on pipes with water that is colder than the air temp around them.
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You're right—condensation won't be a problem for hot water lines (as long as you don't spring a leak somewhere, so be VERY careful with nails after you've installed the tubing under the floor).
I do question, however, the idea of having a "PEX sandwich with plenty of room around it for warm air to circulate." Air is an insulator and will tend to minimize the amount of heat transferred to the flooring. The reason they normally place the PEX into grooves is to transfer the heat directly to the floors, which then radiate that heat up into the room. Frequently, the PEX tubing will also be placed into aluminum channels that help to further radiate the heat. In either case, the PEX is held in those grooves very tightly to minimize insulating air and maximize heat transfer between the water and the surrounding surface.
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02-26-2012, 09:49 AM
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#51
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Re: Somewhereinusa
My thought was that (unless the lines are constantly charged with hot water), the normal cycle of the lines going from hot to cool would create condensation. Could be way off, but it seemed possible, especially in a closed space. And it doesn't take much moisture to get mold started.
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02-26-2012, 10:00 AM
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#52
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 635
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Bookmobile body by Farber
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466/Alison MT643
Rated Cap: 1
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
My thought was that (unless the lines are constantly charged with hot water), the normal cycle of the lines going from hot to cool would create condensation. Could be way off, but it seemed possible, especially in a closed space. And it doesn't take much moisture to get mold started.
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Except that they would never be filled with cold water, they would only be filled with water that is at or above the ambient temperature. When the heater is working, the water is hot. When the heater is off, the water is cooled by the surrounding materials, but it is never cooler than those materials. The only way to get condensation is to have water flowing through the tubing that is cooler than the surrounding air, which just can't happen unless you have some means of cooling the water.
Now, if the water were held in a tank exposed to the outside air, and that outside air were dramatically cooler than the air inside the bus, you could get some condensation on the lines, but that would make for an extremely inefficient heating system, and is thus highly unlikely.
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02-26-2012, 11:30 AM
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#53
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Roswell, NM
Posts: 3,588
Year: 1986
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: 40 ft All American FE
Engine: 8.2LTA Fuel Pincher DD V8
Rated Cap: 89
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Radiantec's DIY page
Mother's Amazing Fin Press Make your own fins to place over the PEX to get the heat to the floor.
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02-26-2012, 11:57 AM
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#54
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New Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 5
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Bluebird TC2000
Engine: 8.3 Cummins pusher
Rated Cap: 45
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Re: Somewhereinusa
My 94 bluebird had a total of 3 ac units, one on each side and a smaller unit for the rear. As they we meant to keep 45 people cool I removed one of the main units. I stay as cool as I can stand with the others. Enjoy the project, it's fun. Gslocobrea
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02-26-2012, 04:33 PM
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#55
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MNT CITY TN
Posts: 5,158
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Curious why pex and not copper?
I have seen several expedition type rigs use copper tube laid into router'd grooves but not pex type tube.
__________________
Our build La Tortuga
Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.
George S. Patton
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02-26-2012, 07:20 PM
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#56
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Re: Somewhereinusa
These days Pex is preferred because they discovered that even when well affixed, engine & road vibrations will anneal copper lines over time making them hard, brittle and prone to failure. At least that's the story I was told.
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02-27-2012, 09:12 AM
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#57
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon/Philippines
Posts: 1,660
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Must be a long time, cause the two 1970ish campers i stripped, the copper lines were just fine...
__________________
Jesus Christ... Conversion in progress.
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02-27-2012, 10:02 AM
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#58
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,436
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Best reason I can think of.
Quote:
PEX Prices
3/8" - $0.38
1/2" - $0.40
5/8" - $0.62
3/4" - $0.76
1" - $1.26
Copper Prices
3/8" - $4.87
1/2" - $5.67
5/8" - $7.31
3/4" - $10.21
1" - $13.38
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I don't know how current those prices are but probably the article was written in the last couple of years
More from the same article.
Quote:
Advantages of PEX:
Adaptable and easy-to-use plumbing system
Can be used with hot and cold water
Can also be used with metal and PVC piping
PEX has fewer fittings, making it faster to install and with less of a chance to leak
PEX is more burst-resistant due to its flexibility to expand and contract
It has a shutoff valve at each supply line, making it more convenient for you when you have to get repairs done
PEX can have a pressure balanced system
Since it is flexible, the pipes can be bent around most corners and usually won't need a coupling or fitting
Disadvantages of PEX:
It cannot be used outside
Cannot be recycled, due to its shorter life use
It provides an impermeable membrane that may allow the possibility of water contamination
The pipes may be damaged if left outside for a long period of time
Advantages of Copper:
Durable and flexible, making it easy to install Safer in natural disasters Weather and bacteria-resistant Resists corrosion, more so than other metals Unaffected by ultraviolet rays, so it can be used outside Copper does not release toxic gases in a fire because it resists burning In earthquakes, the slightly elastic pipes flex so that they don't snap Copper is recyclable, making it a more sound environmental choice
Disadvantages of Copper Piping
Can corrode
Has become expensive
With higher levels of copper from corrosion, water can have a metallic taste
Copper can freeze and break during cold water
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The ability to withstand some freezing is a big plus in a schoolie
Since I found this on the web it has to be true.
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02-28-2012, 10:05 AM
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#59
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon/Philippines
Posts: 1,660
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Disadvantages of pex..
Shorter life span...
Tell that to all the people who have pex installed in their new houses....
__________________
Jesus Christ... Conversion in progress.
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02-28-2012, 12:27 PM
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#60
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Roswell, NM
Posts: 3,588
Year: 1986
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: 40 ft All American FE
Engine: 8.2LTA Fuel Pincher DD V8
Rated Cap: 89
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Re: Somewhereinusa
Pex will last as long or longer than PVC.
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