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Old 11-13-2013, 06:15 PM   #1
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 89
Year: 1990
Coachwork: International/Thomas
Chassis: 3700
Engine: 7.3
Rated Cap: 73
BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

Been working on it for 4 months now, some notes on my progress.
1990, International/thomas 3800, 72 seats, 7.3 diesel, Conventional,

Removed all the seats, used vice grips on one side of the bolt so I could loosen it from the other side, was easier than griding them off for me. Removed everything from the floor down to the metal, sanded then painted with rustoleum, the few deeper rust spots got POR15, get POR15 in the half pint size because once you open it it drys fast, if you do want to reuse it the next day you need to put wax paper over the opening before you close the lid or it is permanently unopenable.

Put down a half inch of 40psi styrofoam board for floor insulation, the 40psi resists flattening/squishing much better than the normal 15psi pink board insulation found at home depot, put 3/4 inch of plywood on top of that, 4-6 tek metal screws per piece of plywood to attach it to the floor, dont use regular wood screws since they break easy, the tek screws are much stronger and they are self tapping,

I put one inch thick pink home depot insulation board on the walls, floor to ceiling, I then used large sheets of 24ga galvanized metal (prepainted white) as the walls, screwed them into the vertical supports. I placed 4mil plastic down first.

I did not remove the windows before I covered them from the outside or inside, I used a combination of (one inch) and (half inch and quarter inch) pink board insulation to make the outside of the windows flat against the vertical supports, I then used self tapping screws to cover the windows with 29ga galvanized metal, I should have used 24ga metal on this, may have to replace it later since the 29ga is paper thin and flexes too easy,
I did not remove the preexisting screws/rivets from around the windows/supports on the outside of the bus before I screwed the metal on, to prevent these screws/rivets from protruding through the 29ga sheets I first got some one inch wide x quarter inch thick pvc trim and glued/taped them to the bus around the windows so I could screw through the metal and into/through the pvc trim, this raised the metal above the rivets, this is why I used a variety of thicknesses of insulation so I could match them to the thickness needed to keep the 29ga metal flat and not bulging in or out, 29ga bends and folds way to easy which is why 24ga is the thinnest you would want to use IMHO. I layed them down in a tile fashon form the rear to the front. I did not secure the top of the sheets since they fit in tight on the top just sliding them under the rain gutter.

I put two new 850cca batteries in for the starter, I also added three deep cycles in for some extra power, I always thought having two large batteries was overkill for diesels until it got below 50 degrees and I saw how much harder it is to start a diesel. Be sure to use 1/0 or better cable all the way from the starter to all the batteries so you can actually use all the power in them. If you use smaller cable or small/thin connectors all the amps will not be available to start the engine. Always use gloves and eye/face protection.

I installed 4 seats (middle/rear)from a dodge caravan behind the drivers seat (4 seats which equals 5 seatbelts), you have to step over them to get into the back of the bus, bus has the front door and a rear door, the seats and seatbelts are all bolted to the metal floor.

I installed a 36in wide shelf and another 30in side shelf behind the passenger seats for storage and as a headache rack, It leaves a 18in side space to pass through, infront of the drivers side shelf is where I put 2 of the deep cycle batteries, the third deep cycle is in the underside box with the starter batteries with the isolator, the 2 inside deep cycles are on the floor and belted down behind the passenger seats, the inverter is just above the batteries bolted on that shelf, I will put a fuse box beside the inverter to power the small devices like lights, is a blue sea 2029 box with 12 fuses,
I raised the lowest shelf on all the shelving units to 7in above the ground so I can scoot plastic tubs under them.

The floor under the drivers/passenger seats has one inch thick pink board insulation, I added two inches of board insulation to the wall behind the pedals for engine noise dampening, screwed it behind 24ga galvanized sheeting. I prefer the galvanized sheeting when possible for fire retardent purposes.

A master kill switch is installed on the dash, I used a combination of 3/0 and 5/0 gauge wiring for the inverter/kill switch/isolator/batteries, it was a major pain fitting and bending the wire but efficiency was my goal and I got a really good deal on the wire at a store, it was 30 and 40 cents per foot,

Most any isolator you get will cut half a volt off of your alternators charging ability which means the batteries may not ever get to full charge, I will be adding a solar panel on the roof to keep the batteries fully charged. You need about 5-7 watts of charging capacity for each battery just to keep them topped off, if the battery is low it will take a week or more to charge it up so use it only for keeping it topped off.

I made a triple bunk bed for my children, I used two 5ft tall metal shelves from walmart, they are 36in wide, 5ft tall, 18in deep, I put them about 40in apart (for a 6.5ft long by 3ft wide bed) and put three 2x4's between them for each bed to hold up the half inch plywood, the shelves are bolted through the plywood floor to the metal floor with angle brackets, I put a 18 inch long 2x12 on top of the shelves to bolt the top of the beds/shelving unit to the ceiling, the 2x12's are screwed in both to the shelf and the ceiling with metal brackets. The master bed is made in the same way but it has 2 beds instead of 3. We value walking and storage space over a regular size bed. The shelves were $50 each at the depot so they probably cost as much as making the bunks with wood and bolts.

The 8 way (red/yellow) blinking lights on the top front/back of the bus are weldon 1020's and 7 inch in diameter with 8 screw holes, I found out that the weldon 1010 reverse light is the same identical fixture, I used the weldon 1010 clear lenses to replace the yellow/red lenses so I now have some nice front/back area lights, in texas you cannot have red or yellow lights showing from the front of a non emergency vehicle, I had a mechanic change them from blinking lights to just an on/off switch.

I painted the floor and ceiling white, I wanted to keep it white so I have to use less power to get the same brightness for my lighting, the drivers windows and the first set of side passenger windows in the front of the bus are not covered, the rear door window and the windows beside it are not covered, the last set of side windows in the rear of the bus are not covered, all the rest of the windows down the middle of the bus are covered, it makes the bus a little dark even during the day but it also makes it cooler (we live in TX), even at noon when the temp is 100 I cannot feel the heat coming through the walls or ceiling, before covering the walls I could feel the heat through the walls (they had no insulation), the ceiling was evidently insulated at the factory, I did not remove any rivet/panel from the walls or windows before I covered them with insulation and the sheet metal. I put down 4 mil plastic on the floor and walls before the insulation was placed.

I painted the outside of the bus is brown, 3/4th rustoleum leather brown mixed with 1/4th rustoleum gloss white. Several coats with no primer on the prexisting yellow, ,
1. wash/rinse outside twice with degreacer.
2. Sand with 400 grit, then wash with just a little degreaser after each sanding job,
3. paint with high densisty roller, dont press down too hard, dont paint it too thick,
4. let dry overnight, sand again with 600 grit
5. let dry overnight, paint then sand with 800 grit.
For the non painted galvanized metal you wash with degreaser, then rub down with ammonia, then wash with degreaser, then sand as above, then prime with rustoleum primer, then paint as listed above. Always make sure you wash with degreaser before you sand.
I dont have access to running water at the bus so I used a 5 gallon bug sprayer for water, surprisingly the sprayer with a 12in hand brush allows you to rince the bus, about 3 gallons per side of bus. Is a 38ft long conventional bus.

Bus empty weight 17000, gvwr is 29000, it has 11r22.5 tires, the tires are G load rated which are overrated for the bus, this is nice since I dont have to worry about overloading the tires,

Boondocking is our goal,
I will be putting in a few 55gal barrels inside the bus for water, I eventually will want a ~15gallon black tank that is wide and flat on the roof for keeping the water hot (warmer). I have some of the barrel mounts done, I used 6in long 3/8in grade 8 bolts, using 2 bolts per barrel, I will be using normal cargo ratcheting straps for the barrels, 2 straps per barrel, each strap is rated to break at 3000lbs, its rated usage strength is 1000lbs. The bolts will go through a 2x4 on the inside of the bus all the way through one of the rub bars on the outside. I am using 3000lb chain on the bolts. I cut the chain so it has just two links, one link has a bolt through it and the other will have the strap hooked into it.

Will be puttin on a full length roof rack, have already sources the parts, will use 2x2 square tube at 11ga for the vertical and horizontal supports, the vertical supports will be 40in long and bolted into each bus wall/frame support with two 3/8in grade 8 bolts, the platform cross beams will also be 2in square tube 11ga, each crossbeam segment (2 verticals with 1 horizontal) will hold at least 1500lbs safely when not driving and 400lbs safely when driving, it could make it very top heavy so I'm not sure how much I will feel safe putting up there when driving. It will be used for light stuff storage and as a patio.

I will use an 80 watt panel to keep all 5 bus batteries topped off, in addition to that...
I will be adding (hopefully) 1200 watts of solar panels to the roof, with an additional ~800ah of deep cycle batteries inside the bus (beside the driver, vented to outside), more power than we will ever really need but just enough to run a 5000 btu window AC unit (on solar only without batteries hopefully), the AC unit lists as using 4.5 amps but my killawatt shows just 3.5 amps draw when cooling on high.
So its 5 amps (easier math than using 4.5) alternating current draw will equal 50amps direct current draw when running, the 1200 watts will put out ~60 amps at the panels, hopefully I can make it efficient enough to work.
I have already run the air conditioner unit for a few minutes on the three deep cycles already installed, which means we now have air conditioning when the bus is running, I would never try to run the air conditioner on just 3 deep cycles for any period of time without the engine running.

I want to install the air conditioner unit installed above the windshield, will cut a hole and fit it in, the measurements work just fine, I think it will look less getto up there,

I got two 15ft long LED light strips, hope they work well with running them on the walls just below the curve.



I plan to make a bumper platform, 7ft wide x 4ft long, I plan on using two 2x2 hitch receiver tubes, just the tubes about 18 inches long, I want to cut two 3x3 inch holes in the rear bumper right next to the frame pieces, then bolting the two receiver tubes to the frame pieces, I can then use two standard 2x2 inch bumper hitch inserts that are 5ft long, I will have 4ft of the tubes stick out behind the bus, from there I can build a platform as long as it does not block the lights or license plate.
I think it will be too heavy to ever remove in one piece but I think that by just using bolts instead of welding it can still be removed or reinstalled in less than an hour.

It's gvwr is 29000 lbs, which is above the texas limit of 26000 lbs so I need a Class B non-cdl drivers license, have talked to many cops and they all disagree but the regulations are pretty clear, just one written test and a simple driving test,
You cannot drive a bus titled as a school bus for your class B non-cdl test, you either need to rent a class A RV or wait until your bus has the correct title.
I have retitled it from school bus to reconstructed MH (mobile home) which is the tx laws description of an RV, just had to take a few inside/outside pictures to the local tax assessor collector, I now have regular plates, is much cheaper to do the yearly registration when it is a RV,
The law is also clear that if it is titled as a school bus or private bus I would need a class B CDL drivers license. GMAC (now national general is the only insurance company what would insure it, 300 per year.
I have talked to over a dozen employees at several drivers license offices and two tax assessor offices and they are all ignorant of all these regulations, totally ignorant, you will want to bring all the documents, bring a copy of all the regulations or they will just tell you crap.
Attached Thumbnails
yellow bus.JPG   seats gone.JPG   wall insulation.JPG  

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Old 11-14-2013, 01:54 PM   #2
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Year: 1990
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Rated Cap: 73
Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

more pictures 2
Attached Thumbnails
wall insulation w metal panels.JPG   under battery box.JPG   brown w windows covered.JPG  
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:56 PM   #3
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

more pictures 3
Attached Thumbnails
headache racks.JPG   front seats.JPG  
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:57 PM   #4
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

more pictures 4
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barrel mounts.JPG   triple bunk beds.JPG  
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:00 PM   #5
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

To answer a question on the strength of the bed shelves,
I used the shelves, home depot part number gr5 3012 5pcb, angle bracket model number a21z,
I put a nut/bolt in each corner of each shelf to keep it from shaking itself apart, the shelf itself does not have any screws/bolts so it will not work in a moving object,
I screwed the shelves into the vertical supports in the bus wall to keep it from swaying.
I used the angle bracket listed above to screw each leg into the metal floor of the bus,
I only used tek metal screws in this bus, hex head self tapping screws, I strip phillips head screws like nobodies business which is why I like the hex heads,
From what I have seen regular screws and even deck screws are not strong enough to be used for structural support, the tek screws are many times stronger than those regular screws.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:29 AM   #6
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

what color is it?
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:48 AM   #7
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Rated Cap: 73
Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

The bus is a medium brown, but the picture makes it look a little pink
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:24 PM   #8
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

I thought it was skittles purple thanks for clearing that up
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:37 PM   #9
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

I installed a 20ft long strip of LED lights, they come with tape to stick it to the wall but with my children I did not think it would last so I put the lights into a long clear plastic tube, one inch inner diameter, I had to cut the tube longways to get the lights in it, I then bolted it to the ceiling down the edge of the center aisle, not quite bright enough to read a book but find to cook and do other stuff, is really low voltage, it was a pain getting and installing a light switch with a box that it must connect to,
http://www.amazon.com/Strip-light-Water ... e+rv+light

I also installed one LED light in the bathroom that already had a switch installed, was easier but was really cheap plastic,
http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Stars-F35280 ... d+rv+light

In the future I will just use magnetic battery powered LED lights, much cheaper and no time used installing them,
I know I cut corners on looks but everything I do will survive a roll over and I still see the bus as a metal tent not as a luxury RV.

I just purchased but have not yet received a wood burning stove:
http://www.walltentshop.com/Cylinder.html their Cylinder Scout model,
I have spend dozens of hours searching for the right one, right size and tiny enough.
From all the ones I have seen it is the only sub $500 model that actually has sealed seams to prevent leakage,

I also ordered 948 watts of solar panels from DMsolar, 6 panels at158 watts, 12v panels, was under 90 cents per watt, will hook them up in pairs for 24v on the roof, I also got a morningstar MPPT 60amp charge controller, still looking for batteries,

Just started the process of sanding and painting the roof rack pieces, 2in square tube at 11ga, will use 40inch vertical pieces bolted to the outside ribs of the bus, will use 8ft horizontal pieces to connect each pair of verticals,
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:40 PM   #10
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

Picture from under a bed, it shows 2 of the 3 2x4's, the 2x4 is flat even though it does not look it
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2 of 3 2x4\'s holding mattress.JPG  
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:41 PM   #11
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

wow, the picture came out sideways, the left side of the picture is the bottom of the bed, just tile your head to the left while looking at this picture
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:42 PM   #12
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

This is a picture of the bed bolted to the floor with an angle bracket.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:47 PM   #13
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

I used home depot shelving to make the bunk beds, the shelves do not bolt to the vertical pieces so I had to do something to make sure the shelves don"t pop out when driving, I have my finger pointing to a bold which holds the shelf in place, all 4 corners of each shelf has a bolt like this.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Edsal-36-in- ... /100203714
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bolt holds shelf in place.JPG  
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:00 PM   #14
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

Should work fine, as long as you fit in them
I would hit my head every morning
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:13 AM   #15
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Roof rack begins,

Roof Rack,
I have the first vertical support for the roof rack installed,
It is 2 inch square tube at 11ga, I am using 2 bolts for each vertical and they are grade 8 at 3/8 inch diameter and 6 inches long,
Just 2 simple holes through each of the internal bus vertical supports/frame bars and then bolt my square tube on the outside of the bus,
The board you see in the picture is not part of the rack it is just to allow me to measure to make sure the top will be 3 inches above the high point of the roof.
Note to self: It would have been easier to get the holes drilled if I had done them before I covered the outside of the windows and before I added insulation and walls to the inside off the bus.
It took a strong detergent and a stiff bristle brush to get the black powder stuff off of the tubes so I could sand, primer and paint them, must always remember to really wash/clean metal before you begin any sanding and painting.
I will be using the same 2 inch square tube for the horizontal supports, to test the 8ft long tube I put each end of the tube on blocks and then I stood in the center, My 220lb weight made the bar bend about 1/4 inch, when I bounced it bent to 1/2 inch, but remember this is all my weight in the center of the bar not distributed across the length of the bar as it will be when fully installed,
I had to grind off a 2 inch section of the rain gutter to get the tube to fit flush against the bus,
I drilled the two holes into each square tube first, then I held the bar in place with my hand as I started the higher drill hole through the bus frame, I then used a bolt to hold the tube in place before I drilled the lower hole into the frame, it is important not to drill the holes into the bus first since the hole are not likely to line up properly, since I do not have a drill press my drilled holes are never totally straight, and being just a 16th of an inch off will prevent the bolt from fitting,
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:15 AM   #16
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First roof rack vertical support

First roof rack vertical support,
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:02 PM   #17
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

I am half way through installing my wood burning stove,
The picture shows the stove bolted to some plywood which is covered by sheet metal and a one inch thick ceramic blanket, the blanket can withstand 2300 degrees,
From what I have read a wood stove must be 36 inches away from any material that can burn, if you put up a sheet of metal then it can be 18 inches away, if you add other insulation then it can be closer.

For my installation I will have a one inch air space (open at the ends) above the ceramic blanket so some of the heat can escape.
From closest to the stove going out it will be metal sheet, one inch air space, one inch ceramic blanket then another sheet of metal,

The spacers I have picked are 2 inch tall metal wall outlets/fixtures, they are bolted to the base and will be bolted to the wall also to create a 2in space there, I then bolted the stove legs to the fixtures,

The stove will be surrounded on 5 sides by insulated walls, I will need to put some type of metal screen on the front to act as a door.

It uses a 4in stovepipe, I will use a doublewall pipe from the stove to the ceiling, I will use a 4-6 feet tall double wall chimney on the outside of the bus, double wall pipe on the outside will help prevent creosote buildup, I want it that tall so the smoke does not deposit on the solar panels, while driving the pipe will be laying down and secured with some type of cap on the hole, I intend to use bolts and wing nuts to hold the pipe up when using the stove.

http://www.walltentshop.com/Cylinder.html
is where I purchased the stove, I got the small one, the cylinder scout model,

I hope it works out, once it is installed and burning I will get some temperature readings on the walls to make sure the insulation is working as advertised,

And yes, I will have 3 large fire extinguishers, 2 co2 detectors, not sure if a smoke alarm can exist with the stove,
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wood stove showing ceramic blanket.JPG  
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:28 PM   #18
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

I ran the stove for 4 hours today, it all worked fine.
I finished putting the sheet metal to cover the insulation from the picture above.
Currently I have the left side and the base insulated with one inch of air and one inch of ceramic insulation, the ceramic is similar in form to fiberglass but a little denser,

The base is about a foot under the stove and only got to about 120/130 degrees. No heat made it through the base to heat up underneath.
The left and rear wall got up to about 140 degrees and no heat made it through to the back of the wall.
The ceiling which has not yet been insulated for the stove got up to at least 160 degrees, it is about 18in above the stove.
I will be getting a heat sensor to get better temperatures and not just my guesses.
Within about 2 minutes the air near the ceiling was noticeably warmer and within 15 minutes it was 70 degrees near the ceiling, the floor got up to 40 degrees (outside temp was 25). The top 3 feet of air was warm and the bottom 3 was colder.
With the use of a fan the floor made it to 50 degrees and stayed there.
I kept the stove half full, I used about 8ft of a 2x4 to keep the bus warm, I dont think filling the stove full could cause any problems but I dont see a need unless it was much colder. The stove thermometer showed a temp of between 600-800 degrees.
My 5 year old CO detector kept a reading of zero the entire time (floor and ceiling), I did not notice any apparent issues with my health, fyi as a paramedic I had mild CO poisoning on several occasions and I had none of those symptoms.
I intend to look around for some type of gas sensor for accurate readings.
Other than CO what other gasses would I want to take a reading on?
I put a small piece of the ceramic insulation in the stove for 3 hours and it did not burn at all, just got a little dusty.
The paint on the ceiling got a little sticky due to the heat
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:04 PM   #19
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

I purchased 6 solar panels from dmsolar.com, I am having a heck of a time with the company, the glue holding the electric box is coming undone after being mounted for only a month, they are telling me to just buy some glue and fix it myself, very rude and condescending, I am dealing with the manager from what I am being told, he is an ass, will never purchase from them again,
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:15 PM   #20
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Re: BUBB 1990 Thomas, 72 passenger

If you are having issues getting what is obviously a manufacturer issue resolved I would suggest a couple things.
1. Let them know you are filing a complaint with the BBB, then do so at this link: http://www.bbb.org/south-east-florid...le-fl-92005811
2. Send a certified letter to the business owners address as found here: http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/Cor.../dmsolar/Page1 In the letter include all the details about your problem (pics would help) as well as all the info you can supply of your hassles with the employees. You'd be surprised at how many owners have no clue what their managers are doing. If you have email documentation send that as well. Lastly include your desired resolution to the problem e.g. "I would like $50 to cover cost of glue and time" or whatever you are looking for. Be specific and reasonable in your request to rectify the situation.
Whatever you do, do not lose your cool and do not do these things halfway. If you have to file the BBB complaint the ALSO send the letter to the owner. He/She is who you want to work with to resolve this.
Good Luck!!
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