1959 International

[Shannon]

I have a 1959 International bus and would like some feedback on converting the wheels to something safer. I have read of people using box truck frames and driveline as an upgrade. Is this the best way or is it possible to convert the rearmed and hubs?

My plan is to make a conversion for the family as well as a toy hauler. Thinking of using a 12 valve Cummins unless there is a better option.
I have searched this site and the internet with no success. I was hoping to find more info then I have.
Thanks

[magnakansas]

I have a 54 ford with wayne body, it is going to be set on a 2005 ford f450 chassis, with cummins 12 valve.

there are modern wheels five and six lug that will probably fit your bus. Pictures will help.

william

[Shannon]

I would just like to get rid of the split wheels. Something a more modern. I have looked the internet over and can’t find any info on what I will need to do. Will I have to change the rear end, what about the front?
I will get some pictures when I get home today.

[Ronnie]

International tended towards "Dayton" spoked wheels. If so then it is easy to get new rims to fit. Tubeless rims that take a 22.5" tire. Often but not always a 10r22.5. These rims come in a common size of 8.25" width. You may or may not have room for them, and may need the narrower 7.5" width. Clearance on the tie rod ends might be tight.

If a Budd rim not to sure what is out there.

[Ronnie]

Here is a 59 International fire truck with "Dayton wheels" This we are keeping the split rims on because it is local use for parades and antique shows. My bus uses the same wheels but have 10r22.5 tubeless rims and tires on them.

[magnakansas]

there are rims out there but need more information from you to help you find them

william

[Tango]

Any reason other than appearance? The Dayton style are good rims and are multi-piece but not "split" rims (as in the old RH5 "Widowmakers"). Millions & millions of Daytons on the road.

[Ronnie]

Tango, With great respect I have to say that Dayton wheels can have either split rims or tubeless rims. The spoked portion carries the rim, and the rim is likely a split rim if original to the his bus.

I am hoping the photo of the fire truck can be seen in enough detail to see the wheel and rim. Being a 59 International it should be relavent to his bus, at least hopefully.

[Shannon]

I will get the bolt pattern this afternoon. I honestly don’t know the difference of the wheels. I am new to that old of a bus. If they are turn out to not be dangerous I am not opposed to running them. But I wouldn’t mind the newer look.

[Shannon]

From memory I believe they are five bolt. In your opinions would I be better off to put the body on a box truck frame for the better brakes and suspension, or make do with the original? As far as I know the wheels are original to the bus.

[Tango]

There also seems to be a "split" in terminology. What I have always recognized as true "split rims" were just that. The actual rim was in two parts and fit together down the middle (as in the old Firestone RH5's). There was one on the rear of my bus. When I recognized it, I ran chain through it, deflated it and cut it up.



There are also many multipart rims such as those with a lock ring on the outside edge. I have always distinguished between those types and what I know as split rims. They too can be very dangerous so whatever the terminology, do some homework before pulling or working on any rim that is not a single piece.



Below is an old post but it has some pretty good info.



http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/wh...nfo-10659.html


Another good discussion here with more diagrams of rim types...



https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/...-rim-question/




Play Safe out there!

[Gdog 5651]

There are indeed multiple types of multiple piece wheels as mentioned above true split rims have a factory made "crack" or split that runs across the rim from bead to valve stem opening, there are also single lock ring wheels "the lock ring is split not the wheel the two piece lock ring where the first ring is solid the second ring is split and my favorite the GM corporate wheel where a solid lock ring is forced over a solid wheel with a large hammer and varying degrees of technique all are dangerous split rim corporate single lock and two piece in that order in my opinion(dangerous to least dangerous)



Gene

[1olfart]

IMHO If you are wanting a smoother ride I would choose the E series Ford chassis or a box van. It's going to be somewhat more $ to swap, but if you are going to be on the road a lot, I think you will be much happier. Couple that with a more updated, all round chassis, you'll be miles ahead of any other issues that may come up.

[Ronnie]

By 1959 international had a nice chassis, often with a 304 or 345 v8. Steering on these, as long as it is in good shape is quite nice and will hold up well. Unless you want independent front suspension I see little reason to change the chassis.

Do you wheels look like what I pictured on the fire truck?

Tango is right the rim we call split rim is really just a split retaining ring. I do have (not in use) some real split rims.

[ol trunt]

I went with the late model "box truck" frame change. Tango is doing the "replace everything" route. We both started with very similar Chevy shorties--mine pre WWII his just post. Both shared the same frame and cowl and basic drive line.

If you chose to do a frame swap try to find a frame that isn't made of a specialty material because many of them won't allow modification by welding. Also look for a frame that is the same width as your cornbinder. That will allow you to swap the original outriggers from your old frame directly to the new frame.

Tango will better be able to comment on the drive line swap approach but I do know that doing that requires a special kind of shoe horn to accommodate stuffing in the new drive line.

As for cost, I'd guess in the end its about the same either way. As for driveability on a long wheel base bus I'd go with a late model air bag suspension chassis. On my short wb bus and I expect Tango will find on his newly sprung original, the chassis change makes little difference--they will both ride like buck boards on s%@*y roads, especially the saw cut concrete ones.
Jack

[magnakansas]

You will have to confirm bolt patterns, but I think dodge motor homes of the late 60's early 70's have five bolt "drop center" rims. I also think they are 19.5" but with the taller profile tires the diameter will be close to the same. I think some of the freightliner mt45 vans - thinkfedexdelivery truckabout 1998-2000era, had six bolt rims.

since all, well I think "all", the medium duty truck stuff has frames 34" wide, changing axles with newer stuff is not difficult, expensive maybe, but not difficult. I think the trick is finding what you want and to keep looking it is out there.


william

[Davard]

Originally Posted by magnakansas

You will have to confirm bolt patterns, but I think dodge motor homes of the late 60's early 70's have five bolt "drop center" rims. I also think they are 19.5" but with the taller profile tires the diameter will be close to the same. I think some of the freightliner mt45 vans - thinkfedexdelivery truckabout 1998-2000era, had six bolt rims.

since all, well I think "all", the medium duty truck stuff has frames 34" wide, changing axles with newer stuff is not difficult, expensive maybe, but not difficult. I think the trick is finding what you want and to keep looking it is out there.


william

Often, older motorhomes would use 5 lugs in the front and 10 in the rear (same wheels). With 8-19.5 tires.

And the 34" frame width has been the standard truck frame width since before WWII, for anything with straight frame rails, 1/2 ton through Class 8 semi and beyond.

And you can make anything fit if you have a big enough hammer.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

I call them as they are?
Split rims like Tango posted are the the ones to worry about the most.
The Dayton split ring style rim's are safer but most tire shops don't like them because it takes more effort for them when mounting back to the vehicle to get them mounted true.
Neither rim is a problem if deflated(flat) or you deflate it before touching.
The DAYTON tubed style is easier to replace than most standard car tire's.
DAYTON TUBED style tire's and rims are still used today but a regular car tire shop isn't going to know what to do with it a medium duty shop might have a few people that know but don't want to? But a big rig shop will fix all in almost nascar speed.
Cost a little more but piece of mind on the road?
Not only our home but our skoolie?that's is where we all want to be.
Piece of mind to hit the road.
Look up ALCOA they have upgrade rims to replace what you have.
The ones I have found for mine are adapters with normal looking rims but to much money for me.
Learn how to fix and maintain what you have and upgrade a little at a time as you can and or have bigger problems? where it shows the entire brake system needs to upgraded? Replacing with all new OEM is an upgrade.

[Shannon]

Ok, I just got home and they are 6 bolt pattern. They are also what I believe to be true split wheel design. Once I figure out how to post pictures I will put some up. They do have what I would call a notch around the valve stem.

[Shannon]

this is it