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Old 08-11-2019, 08:51 PM   #81
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Hmm wonder what happened here
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:02 AM   #82
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Hey guys! I got really excited when I signed on and saw this thread pop up. I am in the middle of my own fairly simple conversion, but about two months back when I bought my bus the couple I purchased my bus from was currently converting a full sized bus into a 4x4 offroader.
I got too excited to read every post before resonding so hopefully this is redundant or unnecessary.
I bought my bus in oregon from a school bus dealer who does conversions as well.

I have attached a photo of the school bus sign with their number in case youd like to ask them about it. You can mention that Jackie with morning star mentioned your 4x4 beauty.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:03 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
I have to say the locker in my bus can make parking lot manuvers rather noisy and for lack of a better word weird. It is a Detroit Gear Locker.
Ronnie,

I am thinking about adding a Detroit Locker when I switch out my ring and pinion. I have heard they can be noisy when you turn. What do they do that is weird? Other than the noise and weirdness does it work well?

Thanks

Ted
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:49 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by HenrysCat View Post
I bought my bus in oregon from a school bus dealer who does conversions as well.
Wolf Creek does 4X4 conversions?
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:49 AM   #85
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check out the price for crew cab 1940's power wagons! personally i would not own a computerized modern transportation. i prefer old school metal and simple mechanics. got my first mechanic job in 1978 at an oldsmobile dealership, in little rock arkansas. but to each his own. when my truck is finished ill never sell it, leave it to my wife my son,
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:37 AM   #86
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New cab chassis is cheaper? Where do you live?



If you take into consideration labor (including your own) Parts and fabrication the new cab an chassis wins when you add in warranty and reliabilty.


Every mod of a heavy truck into 4wd done right will cost you. Most are never done right that I have seen. It all adds up including having to drive and haul all the parts you will need. The time and expense of finding them in the first place and reconditioning what you get then installing them.



I know this is the el-cheapo build site but the guy wants to retire and drive into the wilderness. Getting a tow of heavy truck out of the woods will wipe out pretty much any savings of building your own.


If you haven't experience building heavy drivetrains stay with what already works.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:43 AM   #87
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How much is that new Cab/Chassis?
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:55 PM   #88
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Ronnie,

I am thinking about adding a Detroit Locker when I switch out my ring and pinion. I have heard they can be noisy when you turn. What do they do that is weird? Other than the noise and weirdness does it work well?

Thanks

Ted
Ted,

Basically a Detroit locker works by being locked all the time then unlocking to make a turn as long as there is not much power being applied by the engine. However it does not simply and completely unlock it kind of for lack of a better word rachets in and out of lock as you turn. So most of the time this is not noticable, but sometimes it will do so with a loud pop and a noticable jerk. Parking lot u turns seem to do it more because there is no wheel slippage. On gravel, dirt, snow, there is just enough give that it becomes much tamer. So that is it for the noise and weirdness in a nutshell.

Does it work ? Oh yes very well. One wheel up on stump,rock, etc the other wheel has full power still, and most of the time will still move you. For less demanding situations as most of us would have in a bus, after we are not rock crawling, it is really nice for the added traction. I have nt gotten stuck on a boat launch ramp yet including dirt ones. My one ton truck does get stuck on the same launch ramp, bummer, so bus wins there.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:08 PM   #89
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detroit locker on the street operation

In my mind, a detroit locker is kind of like a ratchet and sounds like one on the road when in a turn, noisey clunky sounds. some times like marbles getting crunched around in a box. I find in low speeds, the locked up rear has the tendency to push a vehicle in a straight line. Not so good on ice making a tight turn. In a drag race, in very loose stuff like a muddy road This lock up is a good thing, trying to make a tight turn on maybe not so much so. For stuff that has to make tight turns, I like the action of clutch type limited slips, an alternative is a Torsen Gleason type limited slip. A clutch type can get very hot, like slipping a clutch or riding brakes, and the oil should probably be changed often in order to protect bearings from where. A Torsen type does not have to deal with heat, but is very tough on the shearing of the oil, wears out oil. Keep changed to keep the oil in good condition. Torsens quiet, use up some power to operate but I dont think that is a deal at all in most cases on a bus, clutch type will wear fastest of all, but can be rebuilt, and If you know what you are doing, might be able to machined in such a way that only work as limited slip under power but not limited slip under braking.

anyways, detroit can be noisy. I think a simple locker mechanism is best for heavy medium duty trucks, simple and turned on only when needed. then turn it off.

william
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:52 PM   #90
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The limited slips are for sure more road friendly... but have left me stuck, where a locker would have kept me moving. After all they are "limited slip".

As for the locker pushing in a straight line yes in a jeep or pickup especailly loaded with firewood on a muddy logging road yes it will push straight and you have to let off a bit to turn. Have not noticed this on the bus, being heavier and longer think makes a difference. Besides we are not mud digging with our bus. Soft sand roads it really helps and have not noticed any steering issues either.

As Magnakansas mentioned a selectable locker really is the best of both words unlocked for road use, and locked just when you decide you need it. Not sure if they are available for a bus rear though, but worth checking into.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:10 PM   #91
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Having driven a straight truck with lockable rear diff I can tell you it'll still put up a fight if you try to turn with the diff lock engaged. On the one hand the long wheelbase compared to a jeep suggests that the steers have more leverage to overcome the straight-forwardness but on the other hand the sheer weight of the rig means the traction of those rear duals can just keep pushing forward regardless of what the steers are doing. Maybe it would be less resistant with a single drive axle truck but there was simply no steering a tandem drive axle truck with diffs locked.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:35 PM   #92
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Thanks for the Deitroit locker info. I've heard they can be noisy. An air activated diff lock would be ideal but not available for my axle. The Detroit locker is an option for my diff carrier from Spicer.

Ted
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:18 AM   #93
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How much is that new Cab/Chassis?

No price on that one but if you look you can find between 50- 75 grand new depending on GVW. Heavy truck prices have crashed and going lower.
Time to buy is at the bottom and we should hit that over the next 12 months.
Just figure what a based used truck would cost and then the gear/parts required and the cost of doing it.

You may save some in the short run but it will cost more in the end.


That and the idea that some amateur put the thing together and is rolling 20 tons at highway speeds make my skin crawl. Death Wobble is real and even new vehicles suffer from it. Sometimes this forums goes way over the crazy dangerous line with things. Hobby building heavy trucks into 4wd is one of them.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:03 AM   #94
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No price on that one but if you look you can find between 50- 75 grand new depending on GVW. Heavy truck prices have crashed and going lower.
Time to buy is at the bottom and we should hit that over the next 12 months.
Just figure what a based used truck would cost and then the gear/parts required and the cost of doing it.

You may save some in the short run but it will cost more in the end.

You talk about that like it is chump change. BTW, exactly what GVW are you talking about for 50-75 grand new, a 1 ton?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudhutwarrior View Post
That and the idea that some amateur put the thing together and is rolling 20 tons at highway speeds make my skin crawl. Death Wobble is real and even new vehicles suffer from it. Sometimes this forums goes way over the crazy dangerous line with things. Hobby building heavy trucks into 4wd is one of them.

What is "Death Wobble"? Who makes this crap up? Sounds like a millennial video game programmer/writer. Usually, for the media to give some phenomena a name, it has to be fairly common and I've never heard of it.


"rolling 20 tons at highway speeds " All the big 4x4/off road stuff that I have seen could barely do convoy speeds of 50 mph. A lot can't exceed 40 mph and its not comfortable or cheap to drive. I'm sure you could make it go faster, but why? i'm hoping that someone with the ability to actually put it together is going to have some degree of sense...then there is the DOT inspection to legally get it on the highway...maybe wishful thinking. Besides, even if they bought a new one, they would probably modify it. Are you saying that hobby building 2wd heavy trucks is safe/safer? Is it modifying heavy trucks or just modifying the drive system that you think is dangerous? 20 tons is a pretty big school bus
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:16 AM   #95
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Death Wobble is common in the dodge one ton trucks. This nick name comes about because once the front end starts to wobble it shakes the truck so bad you have to slow way down to get it to stop, and if you dont it acts as if it will shake the truck to pieces. handling becomes unmanageable too. It is a very poor front suspension design. I think they need some hobbiest to teach them fancy engineers how to build a front end...
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:50 AM   #96
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Death Wobble is common in the dodge one ton trucks. This nick name comes about because once the front end starts to wobble it shakes the truck so bad you have to slow way down to get it to stop, and if you dont it acts as if it will shake the truck to pieces. handling becomes unmanageable too. It is a very poor front suspension design. I think they need some hobbiest to teach them fancy engineers how to build a front end...
It also exists on jeeps( where the name truely started) and high mileage fords. Similar designed front ends on the solid axle front ends. It is real and it has caused problems. It starts at engineering.
Poor attempts to gain ride quality and noise abatement.
Leaf spring front ends like most hobbiest due on this heavy of a vehicle should never get the wobble. But all other parts of the conversion can be scary if not done right.
Fabricated parts by guys who just bought their first welder is what scares me.
20 ton ? More like 16 tons lol. We could open conversations on this but the reality is

For got to add the 50 mph speed is pretty true the truck I posted with the 4x4 has 7.17:1 gears in it. Plug that into your speed calculator.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:49 AM   #97
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Here is a cheap 4x4 chasis donor https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?f...93&acctid=3934
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:35 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
Death Wobble is common in the dodge one ton trucks. This nick name comes about because once the front end starts to wobble it shakes the truck so bad you have to slow way down to get it to stop, and if you dont it acts as if it will shake the truck to pieces. handling becomes unmanageable too. It is a very poor front suspension design. I think they need some hobbiest to teach them fancy engineers how to build a front end...
I haven't experienced that since I was a teen driving old cars that shouldn't have been on the road - front ends so loose that you could move them inches by shaking them by hand - I'd forgotten all about it until I read your post - 'haven't heard another word about it in 55 years until this
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:53 AM   #99
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@JustKip, I missed this thread for a couple of days, but yes, Wolf Creek Motors does 4X4 conversions. They use certain old military trucks and ambulances as donor vehicles. They put front differentials from these into schoolbuses. When I bought my BlueBird in April, they were working on converting a 29 foot, front engine Bluebird into a 4X4, very cool looking rig. Wolf Creek Motors is easy to find, and I was very pleased with my dealings with them.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:15 AM   #100
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You talk about that like it is chump change. BTW, exactly what GVW are you talking about for 50-75 grand new, a 1 ton?


Heavy trucks are cheaper than most pick ups these days. Take a look.

Since pick ups are now 50 grand you would be surprised at the prices of heavy cab/chassis.
You just need to be aware of these things. I just bought a one ton van, low mileage for 14k. Same in a pick up with same mileage is more than twice that for the same year. People are not practical any more and that make prices insane.





What is "Death Wobble"? Who makes this crap up? Sounds like a millennial video game programmer/writer. Usually, for the media to give some phenomena a name, it has to be fairly common and I've never heard of it.


"rolling 20 tons at highway speeds " All the big 4x4/off road stuff that I have seen could barely do convoy speeds of 50 mph. A lot can't exceed 40 mph and its not comfortable or cheap to drive. I'm sure you could make it go faster, but why? i'm hoping that someone with the ability to actually put it together is going to have some degree of sense...then there is the DOT inspection to legally get it on the highway...maybe wishful thinking. Besides, even if they bought a new one, they would probably modify it. Are you saying that hobby building 2wd heavy trucks is safe/safer? Is it modifying heavy trucks or just modifying the drive system that you think is dangerous? 20 tons is a pretty big school bus

Any one who has driven a heavy truck with kingpins knows about death wobble. Heavy 4wds do it with a lot less wear. I know as I have owned three in the past twenty years. Factory built ones. It happens, its the nature of it. Fords and Jeeps do it new and those are light trucks. In a heavy truck its zero fun and dangerous at speed. I had an international that would not stop until I came to a complete stop. Started doing it at 20k miles. Only 4wd heavy trucks I have heard that don't have that issue is Tatras.
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