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Old 07-20-2019, 11:23 AM   #181
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Johnson City TN
Posts: 441
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC/AMTRANS RE
Engine: T444E 7.3 w/ MD3060
Rated Cap: 36000lbs / 78pass / 39'
I'm about to start the process to see about having mine unlocked.
After reading this I would never buy a bluebird product, man they couldn't care less about any of us.
I've always been a IH/Navistar fan, glad I did my homework and bought a IC bus.
I will document my fight with it and if they want to take forever I will just goto PCMper. to get another TCM and just keep my old one for a spare. I appreciate everyones input on here, it played a big role in what I decided to purchase and kept me from making a mistake, I sure didn't want one of those wimpy AT545s, I'll be pulling 8-10k behind mine.

I'm over in Johnson City TN, anyone know any good Allison shops near me, I read about the one down near Chatt and well if a 3 hour drive is also required to get there then I won't bother begging for blessing to get it done I'll just get me a TCM that will do what I want, I'd prefer to have it done by Allison but I'm not a dog and not going to jump through a bunch of frustration hoops to get it done.

Yall be safe out there.
Anyone need any info on those 7.3s hit me up I've done lots of work including rebuilds on them.

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Old 07-20-2019, 12:07 PM   #182
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Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
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Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist View Post
I'm about to start the process to see about having mine unlocked.
After reading this I would never buy a bluebird product, man they couldn't care less about any of us.
I've always been a IH/Navistar fan, glad I did my homework and bought a IC bus.
I will document my fight with it and if they want to take forever I will just goto PCMper. to get another TCM and just keep my old one for a spare. I appreciate everyones input on here, it played a big role in what I decided to purchase and kept me from making a mistake, I sure didn't want one of those wimpy AT545s, I'll be pulling 8-10k behind mine.

I'm over in Johnson City TN, anyone know any good Allison shops near me, I read about the one down near Chatt and well if a 3 hour drive is also required to get there then I won't bother begging for blessing to get it done I'll just get me a TCM that will do what I want, I'd prefer to have it done by Allison but I'm not a dog and not going to jump through a bunch of frustration hoops to get it done.

Yall be safe out there.
Anyone need any info on those 7.3s hit me up I've done lots of work including rebuilds on them.
Those who have been successful getting Allison to OK the unlock have all had buses newer than 2000. They refused my 99 saying it was too old. You may not have any issues with your 04, my only recommendation is NEVER mention speed increase, you want it for better fuel economy. The place I was going to have mine done was in the Tn. location. I'll try and go through my text messages and find the number, but is an Allison or International Repair in TN. I think with that year computer PCM can do it without authorization.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:01 PM   #183
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
444E with an MD3060 is a nice setup and not super common.. most of them had allison 2000s on them..



just remember if you get a TCM, either get one tuneable yourself or thats specifically made for the T444E.. the T444E is a V8 ands needs to favor lower gears / higher RPMN under any sort of load.. a TCM< designed for standard 2600 RPM tune which is common all over the internet.. (I have a few such tunes).. will tend to lug the engine.. Once i got away from the mentality of gasoline-car style shifting and programmed my trans to hold gears more than upshift, my T444E has been awakened even more than just the tuning of the engine..



The best scenerio is if you can get your 6th gear turned on and keep the Navistar CIN tune in your TCM.. 2004 is 3rd gen controls and still very much around... 4th gen came out in 2006 with the advent of the 6 speed allison 1000 / 2000...
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:59 PM   #184
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Location: Johnson City TN
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Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC/AMTRANS RE
Engine: T444E 7.3 w/ MD3060
Rated Cap: 36000lbs / 78pass / 39'
Thanks both cadillackid and o1marc I appreciate the info.
Yeah I'd love to get the speed raised, mine is limited to 55 which is horrible, the interstates here give me 65-70 limits and about everyone passes me.
It's harder to find a 04 T444e because that was the last year IH built them, I wouldn't have a newer bus with the emission garbage that would need to be deleted in order to get real longevity out of it.
This is my first bus, but I've owned several 7.3s, sucks it doesn't have OBDII because I can reprogram those LOL, but that's just on the light dutys.
I'd LOVE to have this trans behind my F350, I hate ferds autos and mine is about done for but the engine has nearing 500k miles on it and loads of life left.

I'll take your advice and keep my mouth shut about speed, the engine is govenr at 2500RPM, pretty low for that thing, I'd like to remove that as well, BUT I like that noone else could abuse and red line it. It pulls good BUT the go pedal rather than being throttle is more like a "request" for more power than a "demand" for it, IF I tromp it there is a delay much unlike the F series powerstrokes. It's the cleanest 7.3 I've ever seen, the oil pan looks brand new and no leaks on it, but then again it's not even at 91k miles yet but all the same I'm not use to not having to fight with oil leaks. Also going to swap out the turbo for an S366 I have laying around that should get it alot more power than the stock, prob get about 40lb of boost atleast on those stock fuel sticks.

Anyways I won't jabber your time away I appreciate the helpful info from you guys and everyone else. It's sad how hard they want to make it for us to use OUR PROPERTY the way we want to just based on what they feel like in life...

I had sent en email to IC a few days ago but haven't gotten a reply, more and more I'm thinking to just go with a 3rd party, they need my support far more than the big bossy boys need fed...

I've also got to throw a new set of tires on my rig, that's all it was ever really lacking in but with another youngen on the way it's just not in the budget and we aren't taking it anywhere till around the end of the year. Tires aren't even the same brand, some mich, some GY, and some other strange brand....
When I got mine I went to a salvage yard that had 70 of these.

I love these rear engine bays, plenty of room to work and not be caught in the rain doing it. When I was a kid I thought the flat nose buses were ugly and I never had rode in one until I bought mine LOL.

Thanks again, have a great weekend guys.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:17 PM   #185
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Join Date: May 2009
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the 2600 RPM IS the redline on a T444E... they have a thinner headgasket than the ford and cant rev as high... there are 4 different throttle pedal maps that can be set up in the computer... based on the installed pedal and desired operation... there IS an inherent delay in stomping it vs getting full fueling... the pedal is an RPM request.. the engine will fuyel as much as it needs to try and reach a pre-determined RPM based on pedal position... a more agressive map means the curve is designed for more of your power to be in the earlier part of the pedal position.. (MAP 2).. A less aggressive map means you have to go down pretty far on the pedal to get RPM out of it..(MAP 0).. readingthe engine load factor generated by the ECM is a way to tell if you are asking for demand or not.. generally a load factor of 255 MEANS there is no attempt to fuel any heavier than it already is..



remember these arent built for speed or power, they are built for Longevity... there were no consumer Horsepower wars to win in the truck ./ bus world so they are built to last forever.. and they will as long as you keep the oil changed,filters mnaintained and never ever over heat them.. doesnt hurt to run some archoil in the fuel and oil either.. and also keep a good eye on your injectors.. a skip, a miss, or fuel smell in the oil, stop using the engine... HEUI injectors gone rogue will destroy one of these engines..



the ECMs are 100% different than the fords... these run on the J1708 and J1939 Medium / heavy truck standards.. both types of data bvusses exist..


J1939 handles your transmission TCM to engine comms, ABS controller (if present), and any collision mitigation.. (not really present in 2004)... the J1708 datastream is for your dashboard and diagnostic port..



these engines can be Tuned and messed with to a small extent with "unlocked" engineering mode navistar software(never sold to the public but does exist out there if you know where to find it.or know someone who has it.)... the EFRC, and HP ratings, VIN, and ESN can be altered which can sallow for more power.. in your case you are likely at the 230 or 250 HP rating which is as high as the navistar will go... you CAN increase power with bigger injectors. and turning the wastegate up on the turbo... our head gaskets should be good for about 30 lbs of boost and not need studs..



the free given-away navistar software allows you to change things like speed limiters, cruise settings, change oil indicators, and the like..
-Christopher
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:30 PM   #186
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Engine: DT466/3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist View Post
Thanks both cadillackid and o1marc I appreciate the info.
Yeah I'd love to get the speed raised, mine is limited to 55 which is horrible, the interstates here give me 65-70 limits and about everyone passes me.
It's harder to find a 04 T444e because that was the last year IH built them, I wouldn't have a newer bus with the emission garbage that would need to be deleted in order to get real longevity out of it.
This is my first bus, but I've owned several 7.3s, sucks it doesn't have OBDII because I can reprogram those LOL, but that's just on the light dutys.
I'd LOVE to have this trans behind my F350, I hate ferds autos and mine is about done for but the engine has nearing 500k miles on it and loads of life left.

I'll take your advice and keep my mouth shut about speed, the engine is govenr at 2500RPM, pretty low for that thing, I'd like to remove that as well, BUT I like that noone else could abuse and red line it. It pulls good BUT the go pedal rather than being throttle is more like a "request" for more power than a "demand" for it, IF I tromp it there is a delay much unlike the F series powerstrokes. It's the cleanest 7.3 I've ever seen, the oil pan looks brand new and no leaks on it, but then again it's not even at 91k miles yet but all the same I'm not use to not having to fight with oil leaks. Also going to swap out the turbo for an S366 I have laying around that should get it alot more power than the stock, prob get about 40lb of boost atleast on those stock fuel sticks.

Anyways I won't jabber your time away I appreciate the helpful info from you guys and everyone else. It's sad how hard they want to make it for us to use OUR PROPERTY the way we want to just based on what they feel like in life...

I had sent en email to IC a few days ago but haven't gotten a reply, more and more I'm thinking to just go with a 3rd party, they need my support far more than the big bossy boys need fed...

I've also got to throw a new set of tires on my rig, that's all it was ever really lacking in but with another youngen on the way it's just not in the budget and we aren't taking it anywhere till around the end of the year. Tires aren't even the same brand, some mich, some GY, and some other strange brand....
When I got mine I went to a salvage yard that had 70 of these.

I love these rear engine bays, plenty of room to work and not be caught in the rain doing it. When I was a kid I thought the flat nose buses were ugly and I never had rode in one until I bought mine LOL.

Thanks again, have a great weekend guys.
Where are you located? Go to the UserCP in the upper left and fill out your profile withyour loction and all the bus info, makes it easier to answer your questions. If you're close, I have a good set of wheels and tires, for $1k. You might consider a rear gear change to up the speed, I know, probably not in the budget, but can be done later.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:41 PM   #187
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Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
Dang!!! Wish I'd've known that when you milked out that extra 5 mph for me! I SO wouldn't have been so fricking damned panicky to make my destination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
... a more agressive map means the curve is designed for more of your power to be in the earlier part of the pedal position.. (MAP 2)...
... doesnt hurt to run some archoil in the fuel and oil either..
-Christopher
Noted, and bookmarked for near-future purchase!
https://www.archoil.com/
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:45 PM   #188
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Johnson City TN
Posts: 441
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC/AMTRANS RE
Engine: T444E 7.3 w/ MD3060
Rated Cap: 36000lbs / 78pass / 39'
Thanks again Christopher, I didn't realize they used thinner HGs in them, I've yet to see on in person fail on a 7.3PSD even abused ones.
I've rebuilt 4 7.3PSDs but not the commercial line ones.
Yeah I know they aren't the biggest power producers but like you said they were made to last and that's why I favor them.
I change oil every 5k and I generally use the T6 rotella it's served me well over the years and I'm not on a fixed budget, it's a broke budget LOL.

I'm more than understanding about HEUIs and the issues with the o-rings on the injectors. I have several spare parts on hand for these.

My bus does have the ABS air brakes but no collision mit.
Sticker on it says 195hp actually, but it doesn't have a problem climbing hills, and well that's what we have all around here is hills (northeast TN).

Also the coolant has to be changed and SLA added to prevent cavitation, I've seen a few engines ruined that way (pin holes in cylinder walls and more typical the front cover eaten up). Most powerstroke owners are clueless on that one in my area.
If you let an oil change go too long in these the HPOP can't make the pressure to fire the injectors which I've seen some people with no starts want to puke when I change the oil and they fire right up after them being suckered by the steelership.
Thankfully I also have plenty of CPS, IPRs, ICPs for these to reduce any roadside downtime.
Doesn't the EFILive work on these?
But yeah they are tough engines and will take alot to kill em. NEVER put cheap Gplugs in them they swell and break, my current truck ate one over a year ago and thankfully it didn't seem to do anything to it.. LOL.
ANyways sorry I'm long winded I don't talk about my project anywhere else and noone locally is into this stuff much less to learn from, in my area I'm the guy to take your 7.3 to for help.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:55 PM   #189
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Engine: T444E 7.3 w/ MD3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Where are you located? Go to the UserCP in the upper left and fill out your profile withyour loction and all the bus info, makes it easier to answer your questions. If you're close, I have a good set of wheels and tires, for $1k. You might consider a rear gear change to up the speed, I know, probably not in the budget, but can be done later.
Yeah I'm on a broke budget, 5th child on it's way in Nov so money is as rare as hens teeth.
I'm in Unicoi which is 12 miles from Johnson City TN, about 90mins north of Knoxville.

Yeah I know the rear is geared really low probably around 6 I'm willing to bet, I've just never had a look at the tag on it yet. But no I wouldn't really want to deal with all that atleast in the next year or 2 anyways, got way too many projects to finsih now. Yeah if you are close I might jump at the rubber though, some of mine are working on dry rot and I won't take it on another road trip till that is solved. I'd reckon this is on a 4000 series IH frame....
I just won a JD mower today and going to pickup Monday so that should more than cover tires for the bus and my E350 (given I get a decent set for the 1kish range anyways).

I did fill out more of the info like you command sir. hehe.
I appreciate you.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:32 PM   #190
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Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by HazMatt View Post
Dang!!! Wish I'd've known that when you milked out that extra 5 mph for me! I SO wouldn't have been so fricking damned panicky to make my destination.



Noted, and bookmarked for near-future purchase!
https://www.archoil.com/



the 1998 computers dont have the extra pedal maps in them, though we can increase the HP on them.. i replaced my 1999 computer with a 2004 computer and updated it through the Navistar cloud.. (one reason i keep that damned NavKal subscription paid up).. the 1998 ECMs will for sure have updates but I found that I was still missing some functionality I needed.. so I took a gamble and bought a 2004 computer which was the part number navistar said is the replacement if I blew mine up.. and it worked.. plugged it in, programmed it from y toredengine file and Bam.. much niver cold weather manners and my auto-trans to ECM data stream has more parameters.. makes my allison happier.





as for coolant im running the AMSoil Polyorganic HD coolant in mine.. no SCA required... there was a long video about coolants on powerstrokehelp... and when I called and talked to both bill hewitt and Tom from AMSoil we came to the conclusion that therei s no difference in the coolant circuits between navistar and ford for these.. im 3 years in with this coolant so far.. well close to it.. I bought the bus in september 3 years ago and changed the coolant within a month or two after I think..



the AMSoil isnt cheap but I dont lose much... even with all the hot-weather travelling I do in mine... and I discovered my heater boost pump has been seeping for awhile as there is quite a bit of residue around it.. so the 1/2 gallon or so ive added since the change prob went there..







+1 on using good glowplugs... dont mess with cheap aftermarket oes.. heard too many horror stories come true like the OP said..



im told in the beginning it was called a "low speed" and "high speed" head gasket.. the part numbers dont cross reference back the same from ford to navistar... though there are those aftermarket companies telling you to use the same one in both... I have no idea what happens if you put the high speed one in the navistar engine... maybe the cam profile is different too... that one is hard to tell as the cams are definitely different.. in 97 ford went electric fuel pump so the cam used doesnt have the mechanical pump lobe on it.. navistar stayed mechanical lift pump all the way through... so the cam part numbers def dont cross reference.. Lifters are the same.. I havent looked up the valve springs to see if they are the same.. if the navistar valve springs are weaker then high RPM valve float could be an issue even with a thicker gasket... might be interesting to see if its possible to find the exact specs of springs and cam...



EFIlive cannot tune the ford 7.3 or the navistar .. they are mainly geared toward GM and some dodge.. I use EFI as I swapped in a built allison 1000 in place of my AT545 and have a fully tuneable 4th gen TCM.. so im tuning just the trans with my EFI.. it talks J1850 through the allison CAN-2 interface..



the navistar software isnt aftermarket so it only will "tune" to engines that the factory built... sure I can increase the RPM limit if I chose.. and with bigger injectors i'll get more fuel for the same pulse-width.. an ICP fooler will run the HPOP drive higher and keep the ECM in the dark about it.. but I cant dial up any timing.. while timing can be the kiss of death for a diesel.. used correctly it is a good way to power-add (along with fuel)... I suspect being set-up for lower RPMs that the Navistar is much less aggressive with the timing than the ford.. that parameter doesnt get show on the diagnostic link so I cant get a baseline for the curve they use.. one would have to build their own tool to monitor CPS and injector solenoid drive to derive the fuel timing...



the 2004s are designed to run split-shots and not single shot injectors.. you ould have to run a 1996 serial number and high-torque EFRC and HP rating to use single-shots as thats the last year singles were used...



-Christopher
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:58 PM   #191
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Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
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Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist View Post
Yeah I'm on a broke budget, 5th child on it's way in Nov so money is as rare as hens teeth.
I'm in Unicoi which is 12 miles from Johnson City TN, about 90mins north of Knoxville.

Yeah I know the rear is geared really low probably around 6 I'm willing to bet, I've just never had a look at the tag on it yet. But no I wouldn't really want to deal with all that atleast in the next year or 2 anyways, got way too many projects to finsih now. Yeah if you are close I might jump at the rubber though, some of mine are working on dry rot and I won't take it on another road trip till that is solved. I'd reckon this is on a 4000 series IH frame....
I just won a JD mower today and going to pickup Monday so that should more than cover tires for the bus and my E350 (given I get a decent set for the 1kish range anyways).

I did fill out more of the info like you command sir. hehe.
I appreciate you.
Not so much as command as common courtesy. I"m in North Goergia, so not too far from you. I have 6 mounted tires with dates from 2017&2018. I think $1K for those is fair considering what you would pay for new with mounting. Mine you get the wheels also, unbolt the old, throw on the new, drive down the road.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:14 PM   #192
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: E Central Tejas
Posts: 2,094
Year: 1998
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Chassis: IH 3800, 8 window
Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
At it's rated 175 HP, I'd surely hope a boost may be had! Honked-off plenty of folx on my local county roads. Speed limit average of 70 mph! Reckon they're more important than me, and have places it's critical they gots to get to. May just have to see what's available in a slightly less aged ECM...
Not that cold weather is ever a concern in my current 20. And my Spicer 5-speed doesn't seem unhappy, but my back surely gets sore from leaning forward, trying to empathetically score just a little more velocity.
Hmmm. Been nice to've gotten the service records with the beast, so's to know what coolant is in there. Prolly generic, bottom-shelf ethylene glycol.
Yup. Good OEM glows' be on my shopping wish-list. Engine runs fine (given what it was designed to do), so no screamin' rush, but if I can upgrade (& make the necessary other changes & foolers to justify upgrading) and improve performance... Wa'al, no brainer!
Day-yum! Wouldn't it be a lovely world if all it took was installing the designated, "high speed," head gasket, and then be able to chirp rubber off the line?! 🤣
I'd've thought the split shot would be more efficient than the single-shot...
Which is why I shouldn't oughta be permitted to intuit on my own...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the 1998 computers dont have the extra pedal maps in them, though we can increase the HP on them.. i replaced my 1999 computer with a 2004 computer and updated it through the Navistar cloud.. (one reason i keep that damned NavKal subscription paid up).. the 1998 ECMs will for sure have updates but I found that I was still missing some functionality I needed.. so I took a gamble and bought a 2004 computer which was the part number navistar said is the replacement if I blew mine up.. and it worked.. plugged it in, programmed it from y toredengine file and Bam.. much niver cold weather manners and my auto-trans to ECM data stream has more parameters.. makes my allison happier.





as for coolant im running the AMSoil Polyorganic HD coolant in mine.. no SCA required... there was a long video about coolants on powerstrokehelp... and when I called and talked to both bill hewitt and Tom from AMSoil we came to the conclusion that therei s no difference in the coolant circuits between navistar and ford for these.. im 3 years in with this coolant so far.. well close to it.. I bought the bus in september 3 years ago and changed the coolant within a month or two after I think..



the AMSoil isnt cheap but I dont lose much... even with all the hot-weather travelling I do in mine... and I discovered my heater boost pump has been seeping for awhile as there is quite a bit of residue around it.. so the 1/2 gallon or so ive added since the change prob went there..







+1 on using good glowplugs... dont mess with cheap aftermarket oes.. heard too many horror stories come true like the OP said..



im told in the beginning it was called a "low speed" and "high speed" head gasket.. the part numbers dont cross reference back the same from ford to navistar... though there are those aftermarket companies telling you to use the same one in both... I have no idea what happens if you put the high speed one in the navistar engine... maybe the cam profile is different too... that one is hard to tell as the cams are definitely different.. in 97 ford went electric fuel pump so the cam used doesnt have the mechanical pump lobe on it.. navistar stayed mechanical lift pump all the way through... so the cam part numbers def dont cross reference.. Lifters are the same.. I havent looked up the valve springs to see if they are the same.. if the navistar valve springs are weaker then high RPM valve float could be an issue even with a thicker gasket... might be interesting to see if its possible to find the exact specs of springs and cam...



EFIlive cannot tune the ford 7.3 or the navistar .. they are mainly geared toward GM and some dodge.. I use EFI as I swapped in a built allison 1000 in place of my AT545 and have a fully tuneable 4th gen TCM.. so im tuning just the trans with my EFI.. it talks J1850 through the allison CAN-2 interface..



the navistar software isnt aftermarket so it only will "tune" to engines that the factory built... sure I can increase the RPM limit if I chose.. and with bigger injectors i'll get more fuel for the same pulse-width.. an ICP fooler will run the HPOP drive higher and keep the ECM in the dark about it.. but I cant dial up any timing.. while timing can be the kiss of death for a diesel.. used correctly it is a good way to power-add (along with fuel)... I suspect being set-up for lower RPMs that the Navistar is much less aggressive with the timing than the ford.. that parameter doesnt get show on the diagnostic link so I cant get a baseline for the curve they use.. one would have to build their own tool to monitor CPS and injector solenoid drive to derive the fuel timing...



the 2004s are designed to run split-shots and not single shot injectors.. you ould have to run a 1996 serial number and high-torque EFRC and HP rating to use single-shots as thats the last year singles were used...



-Christopher
Dangit! SO damned much to absorb and learn!!!
Despite the fact that, at present, my eyes are crossed so hard, I can actually see thru the bridge of my nose:
Thanx for the detailed explanation.
I will be repeatedly returning to re-read until I either get it,
Or develop terminal strabismus...
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Old 07-20-2019, 05:13 PM   #193
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the navistar software isnt aftermarket so it only will "tune" to engines that the factory built... sure I can increase the RPM limit if I chose.. and with bigger injectors i'll get more fuel for the same pulse-width.. an ICP fooler will run the HPOP drive higher and keep the ECM in the dark about it.. but I cant dial up any timing.. while timing can be the kiss of death for a diesel.. used correctly it is a good way to power-add (along with fuel)... I suspect being set-up for lower RPMs that the Navistar is much less aggressive with the timing than the ford.. that parameter doesnt get show on the diagnostic link so I cant get a baseline for the curve they use.. one would have to build their own tool to monitor CPS and injector solenoid drive to derive the fuel timing...



the 2004s are designed to run split-shots and not single shot injectors.. you ould have to run a 1996 serial number and high-torque EFRC and HP rating to use single-shots as thats the last year singles were used...



-Christopher[/QUOTE]

long gone are the days when (1957) I had the heads shaved, a rebore, and used brown paper for the head gaskets on my old 1950 Mercury with the suicide rear doors - that old beast would break the rear tires loose when accelerating on pavement when already moving at an idle - the guy that did the work, clever guy with motors and body work, worked out of his low ceiling back yard garage - terrible shop but had a good reputation and kept busy all the time - simpler times
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:32 PM   #194
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Grampa, tell me more about the cylinder head Brazilian..!
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:38 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
the navistar software isnt aftermarket so it only will "tune" to engines that the factory built... sure I can increase the RPM limit if I chose.. and with bigger injectors i'll get more fuel for the same pulse-width.. an ICP fooler will run the HPOP drive higher and keep the ECM in the dark about it.. but I cant dial up any timing.. while timing can be the kiss of death for a diesel.. used correctly it is a good way to power-add (along with fuel)... I suspect being set-up for lower RPMs that the Navistar is much less aggressive with the timing than the ford.. that parameter doesnt get show on the diagnostic link so I cant get a baseline for the curve they use.. one would have to build their own tool to monitor CPS and injector solenoid drive to derive the fuel timing...



the 2004s are designed to run split-shots and not single shot injectors.. you ould have to run a 1996 serial number and high-torque EFRC and HP rating to use single-shots as thats the last year singles were used...



-Christopher
long gone are the days when (1957) I had the heads shaved, a rebore, and used brown paper for the head gaskets on my old 1950 Mercury with the suicide rear doors - that old beast would break the rear tires loose when accelerating on pavement when already moving at an idle - the guy that did the work, clever guy with motors and body work, worked out of his low ceiling back yard garage - terrible shop but had a good reputation and kept busy all the time - simpler times[/QUOTE]




ha!! and here is one for thr books too... the first engine I ever had to rebuild was a 4 popper diesel in a peugeot 505.. head gasket blew and burned a piston.. I was 20 i think.. so I went to the library. (yeah in 89 the internet just wasnt qiuite what it is now.. the web was a year away yet..).. got books and went to town., asked questions.. talked to people..



when it came down to timing the Bosch Injector pump.. it showed all kinds of wierd tools to use. that I didnt have..



so a friend of my dads shows up in his pickup with this wierd contraption consisting of metal and wood..



the gist was on one side you strapped the wheel to the ground essentially.. on the other side you put the car up on the jackstand welded to the this thing, took off the wheel and bolted this lever to the hub.. the lever was attached to a big spring and a scale with numbers 1-100..



you got in started the car.. put it in D.. stomped the gas and read the number of how high it pulled the spring.. then you twisted the injection pump a little in its slotted slides and did it again....

'highest number meant it was "tuned"..



he surmised that every auto trans tends to have its "stall" speed close to the peak torque of the engine... whether it really was set right i have no idea but it was faster than it was before the head gasket blew...
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:45 PM   #196
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But it worked!
Regardless of sounding like taking a mallet to open an egg.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:27 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the 1998 computers dont have the extra pedal maps in them, though we can increase the HP on them.. i replaced my 1999 computer with a 2004 computer and updated it through the Navistar cloud.. (one reason i keep that damned NavKal subscription paid up).. the 1998 ECMs will for sure have updates but I found that I was still missing some functionality I needed.. so I took a gamble and bought a 2004 computer which was the part number navistar said is the replacement if I blew mine up.. and it worked.. plugged it in, programmed it from y toredengine file and Bam.. much niver cold weather manners and my auto-trans to ECM data stream has more parameters.. makes my allison happier.





as for coolant im running the AMSoil Polyorganic HD coolant in mine.. no SCA required... there was a long video about coolants on powerstrokehelp... and when I called and talked to both bill hewitt and Tom from AMSoil we came to the conclusion that therei s no difference in the coolant circuits between navistar and ford for these.. im 3 years in with this coolant so far.. well close to it.. I bought the bus in september 3 years ago and changed the coolant within a month or two after I think..



the AMSoil isnt cheap but I dont lose much... even with all the hot-weather travelling I do in mine... and I discovered my heater boost pump has been seeping for awhile as there is quite a bit of residue around it.. so the 1/2 gallon or so ive added since the change prob went there..







+1 on using good glowplugs... dont mess with cheap aftermarket oes.. heard too many horror stories come true like the OP said..



im told in the beginning it was called a "low speed" and "high speed" head gasket.. the part numbers dont cross reference back the same from ford to navistar... though there are those aftermarket companies telling you to use the same one in both... I have no idea what happens if you put the high speed one in the navistar engine... maybe the cam profile is different too... that one is hard to tell as the cams are definitely different.. in 97 ford went electric fuel pump so the cam used doesnt have the mechanical pump lobe on it.. navistar stayed mechanical lift pump all the way through... so the cam part numbers def dont cross reference.. Lifters are the same.. I havent looked up the valve springs to see if they are the same.. if the navistar valve springs are weaker then high RPM valve float could be an issue even with a thicker gasket... might be interesting to see if its possible to find the exact specs of springs and cam...



EFIlive cannot tune the ford 7.3 or the navistar .. they are mainly geared toward GM and some dodge.. I use EFI as I swapped in a built allison 1000 in place of my AT545 and have a fully tuneable 4th gen TCM.. so im tuning just the trans with my EFI.. it talks J1850 through the allison CAN-2 interface..



the navistar software isnt aftermarket so it only will "tune" to engines that the factory built... sure I can increase the RPM limit if I chose.. and with bigger injectors i'll get more fuel for the same pulse-width.. an ICP fooler will run the HPOP drive higher and keep the ECM in the dark about it.. but I cant dial up any timing.. while timing can be the kiss of death for a diesel.. used correctly it is a good way to power-add (along with fuel)... I suspect being set-up for lower RPMs that the Navistar is much less aggressive with the timing than the ford.. that parameter doesnt get show on the diagnostic link so I cant get a baseline for the curve they use.. one would have to build their own tool to monitor CPS and injector solenoid drive to derive the fuel timing...



the 2004s are designed to run split-shots and not single shot injectors.. you ould have to run a 1996 serial number and high-torque EFRC and HP rating to use single-shots as thats the last year singles were used...



-Christopher
97 fords were still using the mechanical lift pump, I've got a video on my old 97 that I converted over to electronic fuel and fuel bowl delete, I hate the fuel bowls on these things and I will be deleting the one on the bus as well and go for a duel stage filter setup. The OBS trucks ALL had mechanical fuel pumps, wasn't until 99 with the introduction of the SDs that they had switched over, haven't had a 98 van to tell you what they had in them for sure but the trucks I can.

I have a HPOP gauge on my f350, it can easily be put into the bus, it just splices into the ICP. On said truck I do use a little timing change, but nothing insane but it sure improved fuel useage (like I said the truck is almost at half a million miles and I'd like to see another 250 out of it anyways before it's done, best cab I've had on a F series too). Also running a water/meth setup that really is nice when towing up hill.

I will do the turbo and probably sometime some fuel sticks but I'm not looking for 500hp out of it, I'd like to see around 350 though. And I'm not in a hurry, just future plans on down the road.

Yeah I always heard the IH version was timing was toned down compared to the PSD.

Enjoy the rest of yer weekend.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:56 PM   #198
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thisd is cool stuff... the 97s I worked on with electric pumps were vans.. I know there seems to be a lot of differences between the Pickups, regular vans, and cutaway chassis vans... I HAVE no idea how manufacturers keep up with everything SKU wise
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:47 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
long gone are the days when (1957) I had the heads shaved, a rebore, and used brown paper for the head gaskets on my old 1950 Mercury with the suicide rear doors - that old beast would break the rear tires loose when accelerating on pavement when already moving at an idle - the guy that did the work, clever guy with motors and body work, worked out of his low ceiling back yard garage - terrible shop but had a good reputation and kept busy all the time - simpler times



ha!! and here is one for thr books too... the first engine I ever had to rebuild was a 4 popper diesel in a peugeot 505.. head gasket blew and burned a piston.. I was 20 i think.. so I went to the library. (yeah in 89 the internet just wasnt qiuite what it is now.. the web was a year away yet..).. got books and went to town., asked questions.. talked to people..



when it came down to timing the Bosch Injector pump.. it showed all kinds of wierd tools to use. that I didnt have..



so a friend of my dads shows up in his pickup with this wierd contraption consisting of metal and wood..



the gist was on one side you strapped the wheel to the ground essentially.. on the other side you put the car up on the jackstand welded to the this thing, took off the wheel and bolted this lever to the hub.. the lever was attached to a big spring and a scale with numbers 1-100..



you got in started the car.. put it in D.. stomped the gas and read the number of how high it pulled the spring.. then you twisted the injection pump a little in its slotted slides and did it again....

'highest number meant it was "tuned"..



he surmised that every auto trans tends to have its "stall" speed close to the peak torque of the engine... whether it really was set right i have no idea but it was faster than it was before the head gasket blew...[/QUOTE]

primitive, but sounds like it worked - I love ingenious solutions - there is an old Swiss guy here in town that shows more ingenuity than anyone I've ever met - I really admire him because when he fixes something, be it bulldozer, skidder, or whatever, they often work better and last longer than new - when he designed Tbars and installed them on the local volunteer ski hill, or when he came up with the idea of using the vacuum from his pickup, a simple on and off valve and a 10 gal pail to improve newly installed sandpoint wells, I couldn't help but admire him - Joe put in and improved a sandpoint well for a mining promoter - I guess the promoter was all over the crude looking set up Joe had made for improving wells - next thing we knew, the promoter had put the idea into a fancy package and took out a patent - I don't know where it went from there, Joe is elderly now and blind, but one of his sons still uses Joe's rig or one like it to improve wells in this area
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:13 PM   #200
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
thats how many great things are invented.. not someone sitting around saying "hey maybe we should build a...." its often you have a problem and you need to do whatever you have to in order to solve it and complete a task..
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