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Old 10-28-2021, 05:06 PM   #441
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W.W. Williams - Las Vegas 6th Gear Unlock

MD3060 Family!

Dropping some info I picked up - Recently took our bus to W.W. Williams here in Las Vegas. They were super friendly from start to finish, seem to be very honest and affordable mechanics. For instance - They quoted us $1200 for some repairs, and after all was finished cut $400 off the bill because they over quoted the labor. They didn't need to say anything, I wouldn't have known about labor time. Good vibes.

Heres where the 3060 comes in - I've seen another member here post that this shop unlocked their 6th gear. I asked the service rep if they do this work, and she said yes they do 6th gear unlocks but you have to get the permission letter from the manufacturer -in my case International. Previous skoolie member said he (or she) paid about $300, and the service rep quoted me $400 last time she checked but the price could have changed since then.

Just wanted to drop this as a possible solution for anyone after the 3060 unlock. We won't have enough time to do the job before we hit the road, but might work on getting the letter so we can have the work done down the road.

If you're looking for an unlock, or an all around trustworthy mechanic, Vegas W.W. Williams would be my go-to, and it's right of I-15!

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Old 10-28-2021, 06:38 PM   #442
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MD3060 Family!

Dropping some info I picked up - Recently took our bus to W.W. Williams here in Las Vegas. They were super friendly from start to finish, seem to be very honest and affordable mechanics. For instance - They quoted us $1200 for some repairs, and after all was finished cut $400 off the bill because they over quoted the labor. They didn't need to say anything, I wouldn't have known about labor time. Good vibes.

Heres where the 3060 comes in - I've seen another member here post that this shop unlocked their 6th gear. I asked the service rep if they do this work, and she said yes they do 6th gear unlocks but you have to get the permission letter from the manufacturer -in my case International. Previous skoolie member said he (or she) paid about $300, and the service rep quoted me $400 last time she checked but the price could have changed since then.

Just wanted to drop this as a possible solution for anyone after the 3060 unlock. We won't have enough time to do the job before we hit the road, but might work on getting the letter so we can have the work done down the road.

If you're looking for an unlock, or an all around trustworthy mechanic, Vegas W.W. Williams would be my go-to, and it's right of I-15!
Through experience I have learned the permission has to come from Allison, and Allison will not authorize unlocking anything before 2000.
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Old 10-28-2021, 06:59 PM   #443
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its getting that letter thats the hard part. the $$ is easy.. thats why its better to just get an unlock from a 3rd party.. WW williams is an allison dealer and their hands are tied by their contract with allison.
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Old 10-28-2021, 07:44 PM   #444
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Through experience I have learned the permission has to come from Allison, and Allison will not authorize unlocking anything before 2000.
Do we know of anyone WITH a letter from the OEM whose been turned down by Allison?
Those of us with older IHís canít even get that far. IH seems to cut us off after about 10 years.
My local Allison dealer had no issue with reflashing my 1995 IH, but I supplied the CIN (off a roughly compatible TCM).
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Old 10-28-2021, 08:53 PM   #445
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Your local allison dealer still had the old tool which is long out of production and long unavailable to repair so if his works then he could flash the 98 and older WTEC 2 TCMs…

Using 2000 as a cut off is an easy way to ensure that everything was WTEC III which all the current allison tools work on
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Old 10-28-2021, 08:54 PM   #446
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Do we know of anyone WITH a letter from the OEM whose been turned down by Allison?
Those of us with older IHís canít even get that far. IH seems to cut us off after about 10 years.
My local Allison dealer had no issue with reflashing my 1995 IH, but I supplied the CIN (off a roughly compatible TCM).
I tried, Allison would not issue the letter, stating my bus was too old. I specified I needed the 6th gear for fuel economy, not to go faster. When they reflashed, did they open a 6th gear for you. The OEM needs the letter from Allison, not the other way around.
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Old 10-28-2021, 10:08 PM   #447
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Your local allison dealer still had the old tool which is long out of production and long unavailable to repair so if his works then he could flash the 98 and older WTEC 2 TCMsÖ

Using 2000 as a cut off is an easy way to ensure that everything was WTEC III which all the current allison tools work on
Good to know, thanks.

And yes, the CIN I gave Allison had 6-gear programming. The original shift schedule worked better for my truck, but Iím still happy to have 6 gears.

I wonder if the Allison/OEM chicken-and-egg is complicated by the fact that many OEM dealers are also Allison dealers? The Anchorage Alaska IH dealer isnít an Allison dealer, so I had to deal with them separately.
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:27 PM   #448
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Trying to delete this duplicate post but not having any luck...
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:28 PM   #449
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Good to know, thanks.

And yes, the CIN I gave Allison had 6-gear programming. The original shift schedule worked better for my truck, but I’m still happy to have 6 gears.

I wonder if the Allison/OEM chicken-and-egg is complicated by the fact that many OEM dealers are also Allison dealers? The Anchorage Alaska IH dealer isn’t an Allison dealer, so I had to deal with them separately.
It's been a little while since you had your TCM flashed but I'm in the same boat as you (1998 Pierce Fire Truck, DT530, 5spd, MD3060R). Would you mind posting a photo of your donor TCM that gave you 6th? I see that you posted it before but I'm unable to make out any of the data...

Thanks in advance and how has she been holding up?
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Old 12-01-2021, 09:18 PM   #450
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Here are the photos, hopefully. Itís been a while since Iíve done this. If I recall correctly you need to ďholdĒ on the pic to ďopenĒ it so that itís larger and more legible.


If your fire truck is Ď98, it should be WTEC-3. But fire trucks seem to have more variance on those kinds of things. The second pic (hopefully) is my original TCM, but the big CIN sticker is the recalibrated 6-sp based off the last two pics. Hopefully itís all legible, if not Iíll see what I can doÖ
Attached Thumbnails
46300668-7352-42D8-B14D-E4C3EDA03CF5.jpeg   A80AC25A-EF6B-490B-943F-BD64ED6A0FC4.jpg   C504865D-A576-4219-93A1-A9F112789137.jpeg   2044A537-64AE-4BBD-887F-639535A3D7E9.jpeg  
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Old 12-01-2021, 09:25 PM   #451
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ďThanks in advance and how has she been holding up?ď

Iíve put about 15k miles on with the new calibration. No problems so far. Much better cruising on the 65mph highway!

Is your Pierce a pumper? Post some pics!
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Old 12-01-2021, 10:39 PM   #452
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You're right about the variants....the truck is a '98 but it was built in '97. It's unfortunately definitely a WTEC 2, I was looking at it earlier today just to make doubly sure.

You were also right about holding the pic to make it legible, that did the trick. Mine's a 3060R which means it has a retarder built in but maybe the "P" designation will allow that to still work. I'll keep looking for a 6speed R variant but I appreciate you sharing the photo!

I'll see about posting up some pics, I've pulled the equipment box and tank off and am in the process of making it into my ultimate hauler. I'm loving the spacious cab and the 24klb rear end but need to get those RPMs down!

Next up is pulling the pumper and then building/welding/mounting the 17' long by 8' wide bed...

*Tried to post pics but for some reason they're automatically deleting themselves after being up for a couple mins...**
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Old 12-01-2021, 10:41 PM   #453
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Old 12-02-2021, 12:49 AM   #454
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You're right about the variants....the truck is a '98 but it was built in '97. It's unfortunately definitely a WTEC 2, I was looking at it earlier today just to make doubly sure.

You were also right about holding the pic to make it legible, that did the trick. Mine's a 3060R which means it has a retarder built in but maybe the "P" designation will allow that to still work. I'll keep looking for a 6speed R variant but I appreciate you sharing the photo!

I'll see about posting up some pics, I've pulled the equipment box and tank off and am in the process of making it into my ultimate hauler. I'm loving the spacious cab and the 24klb rear end but need to get those RPMs down!

Next up is pulling the pumper and then building/welding/mounting the 17' long by 8' wide bed....**
Talk to an Allison dealership about whether they can/will add Retarder functionality to another program. That may not be a problem. I have heard of them reflashing a TCM to accommodate the addition of an exhaust brake, soÖ? And if the first dealer says no, try some others. A few phone calls will be quicker than a needle in a haystack search.
Otherwise, I would guess 3060Rís were mostly in transit buses, so you might hunt in that direction if Allison wonít cooperate.

Also, as per that chart I posted as my first pic, if your tranny was built between Sept Ď96 and Dec Ď97 it may be compatible with BOTH WTEC2 & WTEC3 controls. You would need to get a WTEC3 TCM, shifter and harness (andÖ.???), but you could upgrade the controls. I imagine that would be expensive and involve another wild goose chase for parts, but just sayiníÖ.

And Iím totally jealous of the Pierce cab. I love my IH, and the Heavy Rescue box is definitely the setup for my work, but the roomier cab-over would be even better!

Is your DT530 dressed up as a Detroit Diesel 40 series? Quite a few IH DTís were put in fire trucks with the DD name in the mid-late 90ís.
And mechanical fuel injection (Bosch P-pump) or electronically controlled?
Just curious
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Old 12-02-2021, 07:48 AM   #455
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unfortunately only an allison dealer can edit calibrations and most of them dont want to.. i have been trying for several years to have a TCM program modified to enable a couple inputs.. and no allison dealer wants to do any custom work whatsoever.. WW williams used to but not anymore.. their guy that did it retired.. stewart and stevenson who was used by a member here wont even return calls or emails.. , PCM performance said they had no idea what i wanted (even though i made it pretty clear)..



the issue seems to be that because pretty much everything medium duty has an allison transmission that the dealers are packed busy with "easy" work that pays the bills so the little guy is snuffed out and relegated to the confines of pre-paclkaged stuff...



allison doesnt allow "software-only" dealerships.. to become a dealer you have to be a full service sales and service shop with Lifts and tools, etc..



liability and making the insurance man happy I guess.. they used to allow a person to take sone online classes to learn about calibrations and then purchase the software for a couple grand plus a yearly subscription fee which would allow cal changes but that is gone now.. you must be employed by a dealership..
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:47 AM   #456
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Talk to an Allison dealership about whether they can/will add Retarder functionality to another program. That may not be a problem. I have heard of them reflashing a TCM to accommodate the addition of an exhaust brake, soÖ? And if the first dealer says no, try some others. A few phone calls will be quicker than a needle in a haystack search.
Otherwise, I would guess 3060Rís were mostly in transit buses, so you might hunt in that direction if Allison wonít cooperate.

Also, as per that chart I posted as my first pic, if your tranny was built between Sept Ď96 and Dec Ď97 it may be compatible with BOTH WTEC2 & WTEC3 controls. You would need to get a WTEC3 TCM, shifter and harness (andÖ.???), but you could upgrade the controls. I imagine that would be expensive and involve another wild goose chase for parts, but just sayiníÖ.

And Iím totally jealous of the Pierce cab. I love my IH, and the Heavy Rescue box is definitely the setup for my work, but the roomier cab-over would be even better!

Is your DT530 dressed up as a Detroit Diesel 40 series? Quite a few IH DTís were put in fire trucks with the DD name in the mid-late 90ís.
And mechanical fuel injection (Bosch P-pump) or electronically controlled?
Just curious
I'll give it a shot, you never know if maybe I'll catch the right guy on the right day. I have a friend that works at a Cat shop, not sure if they're also an Allison dealer but maybe that's the path. The question about that is whether or not the computer they use to program the TCM stores "off-the-books" work and whether it would blow back on him....don't want anyone getting in professional trouble over this.

You're dead on about the DD 40 series, that's exactly what it is and threw me for a loop at first. I thought I was getting a Cummins 8.3 (that what it was advertised as) which is what I have in my MH but this DT530 has been good so far...no complaints at all. And yep, it's mechanical (nice and simple). I'm a WMO guy and added a 76 gal auxiliary tank, this engine oughta drink it right up and at a 50/50 rate, give me the equivalent of 17mpg

I have another rig that's similar to yours and yep, this cab is cavernous by comparison. In the long term, I wouldn't mind getting another Pierce, shorten the frame, and drop an ambulance or heavy rescue box on it. MPG betweeen the 5.9 and 8.7 surprisingly isn't that different so it'd be a nice mix of the roomy box, roomy cab, and 330hp/950tq engine that'll pull whatever bumper pull trailer that I want.

My TCU sticker has a build date of 11/97 so I just might have the WTEC2/WTEC3 unicorn. Hopefully I can get a simple TCM flash and not go chasing all those parts but at least it might be an option if I keep hitting dead ends. I'm also looking for the software that CadillacKid mentioned because if I can learn to install the files and build a CIN library, I can help the community instead of just myself. We'll see I guess....
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Old 12-02-2021, 03:34 PM   #457
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You’re prob already aware of this, but 330hp/950tq is a bit above what md3060’s are rated for. Most specs I’ve seen are 300/800, and sometimes for certain specialty applications (like rescue & military) it’s 300/950. In talking to folks at Allison I’ve gotten conflicting answers (shocking, right?) as to why the specialty ones have a higher rating. Apparently they’re physically the same, but some said the shift patterns allow for more torque. Others said said the programming isn’t any different and it’s probably just a matter of vocational application (less overall loads expected??).
I dunno.
The CIN I used to get 6th opened is apparently from a garbage truck with an 8.3 Cummins. But garbage trucks aren’t listed with the higher torque ratings (that I’ve seen). So if it IS programming, this CIN would have the 300/800 limit.
I have tweaked my P-pump for more fuel, and it’s noticeably stronger than it’s 250hp/660tq stock rating, but I don’t know how much. 10-20%?? That would put me close to the lower limit of 300/800, but knowing your 330/950 output makes me more comfortable pushing that a little. But for me, Spewing black clouds of unused fuel is anathema, so without more air I’m not going to add any more fuel.
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Old 12-29-2021, 05:28 PM   #458
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Youíre prob already aware of this, but 330hp/950tq is a bit above what md3060ís are rated for. Most specs Iíve seen are 300/800, and sometimes for certain specialty applications (like rescue & military) itís 300/950. In talking to folks at Allison Iíve gotten conflicting answers (shocking, right?) as to why the specialty ones have a higher rating. Apparently theyíre physically the same, but some said the shift patterns allow for more torque. Others said said the programming isnít any different and itís probably just a matter of vocational application (less overall loads expected??).
I dunno.
The CIN I used to get 6th opened is apparently from a garbage truck with an 8.3 Cummins. But garbage trucks arenít listed with the higher torque ratings (that Iíve seen). So if it IS programming, this CIN would have the 300/800 limit.
I have tweaked my P-pump for more fuel, and itís noticeably stronger than itís 250hp/660tq stock rating, but I donít know how much. 10-20%?? That would put me close to the lower limit of 300/800, but knowing your 330/950 output makes me more comfortable pushing that a little. But for me, Spewing black clouds of unused fuel is anathema, so without more air Iím not going to add any more fuel.
Im having trouble re-finding my source, so take it with a grain of 'who cares' but "later model" MD3060s have a max HP/TQ spec of 350/1100. I found it on Allison's site, deep in some PDFs, which are on my other computer. Don't know if this is helpful for your situation. If not, ignore.
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Old 01-23-2022, 05:45 PM   #459
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Did you ever get the info? I'm looking for it too.
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Old 01-23-2022, 05:48 PM   #460
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I would also like the Allison guru's info, anybody who has it.
Have you gotten a hold of the Master's info? I have been unable to get a reply from Bapos. If so please PM . Kind regards
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