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Old 10-22-2018, 02:49 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Never have seen one.. was it an electronic T-shifter with a display?



I stand corrected if that was offered because the 3000 transmission has no provisions for a mechanical linkage..
-Christopher
I think they're electronic, IDK.
https://www.mylittlesalesman.com/200...l-4900-9498340


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Old 10-22-2018, 03:37 PM   #122
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cool stuff never have seen one before.. neat to know a T hanbdle does exist for the 3000 series..



the 2000 series are electronic transmissions but they have a mechanical shift linkage on the side of the trans.. i cant say whether a pushbutton actuator was erver made or not.. after all I never had seen a T shifter for a 3000 series.. but they make a ton of stuff ive never seen in the truck world it seems..



ill say that what ive seen have a T-handle for the 2500s
-Christopher
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:40 PM   #123
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I’d guess you’d need to replace it. Are you sure yours is an md3060? As I was under the impression all md3060’s had a push button control.
Mine is definitely an md3060P (I assume the “P” is for “power take-off”), definitely with a 5-speed T-handle. The T-handle is electronic, not cable/mechanical. I don’t know about bus applications, my truck is an IH 4900 Fire service/Heavy Rescue. Yes, I’m an illegal immigrant on this sight, but the info is just so darn good!
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:11 PM   #124
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Mine is definitely an md3060P (I assume the “P” is for “power take-off”), definitely with a 5-speed T-handle. The T-handle is electronic, not cable/mechanical. I don’t know about bus applications, my truck is an IH 4900 Fire service/Heavy Rescue. Yes, I’m an illegal immigrant on this sight, but the info is just so darn good!

OK got it.. a truck makes sense.. not illegal by any sense of the word.. I dig this stuff.. I still have seats in all my busses and not taking them out and people havent kicked me out yet..



I have seen ver ydifferent setups in trucks vs busses.. can you control the PTO from that shift lever?
-Christopher
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:00 PM   #125
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Typically, on Allies, the "P" is for "Park". (at least, mine is).
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:54 AM   #126
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I have seen ver ydifferent setups in trucks vs busses.. can you control the PTO from that shift lever?
-Christopher
No PTO controls on the shifter. The PTO connects to a generator and is engaged by a Chelsea controller.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:05 AM   #127
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Typically, on Allies, the "P" is for "Park". (at least, mine is).
You may be right Tango, I was just guessing. Would “Park” refer to a transmission parking brake? My transmission doesn’t have a driveline brake, or any other means of holding the vehicle, just the air brakes. I noticed in the “build sheet” (or whatever they call the sheet where they specify features when ordering the truck from the factory) that they specifically deleted a driveline brake on this truck.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:36 AM   #128
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Most often you’ll have a driveline brake with hydraulic brakes and a spring brake with air brakes but not both, that said, my 1978 I loadstar bus has both. So you could get both.

Allison’s can be built with or without a parking pawl. Most school busses don’t have a P. Most motorhomes do. Tango and I both had our Allison’s built with a P. I’m not familiar enough with the truck world to know which trucks had park a d which didn’t , but I do know it was optional to have driveline brake even with air brakes.
Christopher
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:01 AM   #129
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On my Allison, the shift lever that is down on the transmission has two holes for cable attachment. One is stamped "Without Park" and the other hole is stamped "With Park". Don't know about yours but you might take a look.


The "PARK" pawl in the trans is just a slug of metal that keeps the shaft from rotating. While my understanding is that Allisons rate pretty highly on the strength of the pawl, I would never rely on that alone if parked on any kind of grade.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:32 AM   #130
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mine is listed as 30,000 lbs at a 5% grade of holding by the park pawl.. id never want to try and un-park that on a grade like that!! I bought a shifter with a P on it but havent installed it. I test fitted it to make sure it would work but just havent gotten around to pulling the old and installing the new one.

-Christopher
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Old 10-25-2018, 03:43 PM   #131
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Having PCM unlock for $400 seems like the way to go. I think the chances of finding a correct replacement at a lower cost is slim.
PCM got back to me requesting pics of my TCM. Their reply was:
"too old, i only work with WTEC3 or later. i don't work with WTEC2 TECMs."

Back to square one.
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:58 PM   #132
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Time for a Ring and Pinion

I'm in the same boat, Im looking for a way to get 6th but it looks like its not going to happen through Allison or PCM. Next is a different rear end ratio. Ive got a 4.44 which is common but perhaps a 3.91 or 3.37 from one of the Spicer rear ends, N175, N190, N200, N400. The differentials have different splines for the different axles, 36, 39, or 41. But the ring and pinions are interchangeable from what I've been able to learn on the web.

I found a 3.91 ring and pinion set for under 400.00, then there is the installation. I was quoted 600 for labor plus parts that might be needed.

There is the option of finding a complete 5th member from a N190 in my case with a 3.91 or 3.73 gear set.

Although it might be more money, it is more realistic than the re-programming route.
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:19 PM   #133
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WTEC2 stuff is tough... im not sure if my DOC software can do those or not.. ive never had a bench cable for WTECII TCMs.. the WTECII's didnt have a second CAN port for being able to connect to it while its in the vehicle.. all the stuff ive messed with is 4th and 5th Gen.. I need to find a junkyard bus where i can snag the wiring pieces to maske a harness and see if i can program these for people..

-Christopher
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:51 PM   #134
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Just wanted to let everyone know that I worked with Alex at PCM Performance and have successfully unlocked 6th gear in our MD3060. Alex informed me that my TCM (very early WTEC 3) was obsolete and that I would need to purchase a newer version of TCM in order for him to work on it. He told me what part numbers to look for and I started searching.

I found this salvage yard that was selling used TCMs at the cheapest price I've seen and purchased one from them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLISON-TRA...oFU3:rk:1:pf:0

I sent it to Alex, he sent it back to me and we had 6th gear unlocked. Unfortunately the bus was stuck in 6th gear haha. So I sent it back to him along with my original TCM and he got it figured out and sent it back to us. Got it installed today and the bus shifted through all 6 gears and didn't produce any diagnostic codes after our drive so everything seems to be working as it should. So I paid $200 for the TCM and $350 for Alex to do the reprogramming. If your bus has a newer version of TCM you could avoid having to purchase another one and do it for even less money than I did. This was the only route available to me because International does not seem willing to give approval for Allison to unlock 6th gear themselves.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:48 PM   #135
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Has anyone tried going from a WTEC 2 to WTEC 3 TCM for an older 'stock' MD3060 (not customized like cadillackid or Tango), using a replacement like what rensch26 posted? Or anyone tried talking to cadillackid's contact mentioned on page 12? We're still in our search and I've been trying to find a mechanical combo, but want that 6th gear if I can get an MD3060 vs. MT643.

There were a lot of people wanting to do this that seemed to get declined through the various avenues they'd taken, so I'm hoping someone pursued it further.

Thank you to everyone posting in this thread, and rensch for that possibility! So much helpful information in here to nail down our transmission requirements.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:00 PM   #136
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A wtec3 should be able to run the transmission the big issue is how the throttle is input into the tcm . I think it’s analog on a wtec2 and you need a wtec3 that’s the same and not expecting a j939 input. They are usually marked as to the throttle type. I know wtec3 can use an analog throttle but they also came made for the electronic engines which use j1939. Without a good throttle input you’ll have very bad drive quality and likely ruin the transmission due to low line pressure high torque shifts
Christopher
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:31 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
A wtec3 should be able to run the transmission the big issue is how the throttle is input into the tcm . I think it’s analog on a wtec2 and you need a wtec3 that’s the same and not expecting a j939 input. They are usually marked as to the throttle type. I know wtec3 can use an analog throttle but they also came made for the electronic engines which use j1939. Without a good throttle input you’ll have very bad drive quality and likely ruin the transmission due to low line pressure high torque shifts
Christopher
What all hardware would be needed?
TCM and harness (I assume as a minimum). Throttle sensor? Shift controller? Other? Would any WTEC3 TCM be compatible with the md3060? The ones on eBay originally were on C500 trannies, if I recall correctly—does that change the hardware?
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:59 PM   #138
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Allison have a very good system to tell you what your transmission has based on the serial number.

But if you want to change the TCM you need to consider voltage, TID, throttle input as well as the WTEC type. Also if you can find the VIN and transmission codes (usually on the tag on the TCM) off a 6 speed bus (same engine and configuration) you can get that flashed onto your TCM.

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Old 11-19-2018, 10:34 PM   #139
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Where is the TCM usually located on a rear engine Thomas bus, anyone know?
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:12 AM   #140
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Thanks Ringa, for the chart and input.
So if I understand the chart correctly, 1997 is a transition year (with bilingual trannies) and trannies manufactured before ‘97 are strictly compatible with WTEC2 and ‘98 and newer are strictly WTEC3 (and up).
I take this to mean that a WTEC3 tcm can’t be flashed with WTEC2 software?

The first 2 pics below are my tranny and TCM:

The last 2 pics are a possible “donor” TCM program (all I have are pictures, not the physical unit); but according to the chart there may be an incompatibility with mine.

If anyone can use the numbers off this to get 6th gear, go for it! I wasn’t able to get the VIN of the vehicle it came out of, and it does have a T-handle shifter (physically attached! Mine is separated).
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B2C1B27B-F7FE-46C2-BCED-B6E8BC4A1834.jpg   DA6DC797-479F-437A-A781-FDD866210420.jpg   197C34A9-1B46-429D-83D8-D5E4E649037D.jpeg   231D31D2-72A8-4C1A-9CD1-7782996028F5.jpeg  
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