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Old 11-20-2018, 07:00 AM   #141
Bus Geek
 
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I need to go through my allison manuals and look at the pimouts. it looks like both of your TCM's support TPS which is analog input.. and all WTEC-III is supposed to support throttle by can as well.. with a fallback.. I dont have a bench harness for these older TCM's or id plug into your donor with my DOC and read its calibration points.. the CIN number can give the calibration adjustments when given to any allison dealer.. nice ones should be able to print it out for you so you know what to go on.. (shift points, throttle type etc)
-Christopher

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Old 11-20-2018, 01:54 PM   #142
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Chassis: IH 4900
Engine: DT466 250hp P-pump
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I need to go through my allison manuals and look at the pimouts. it looks like both of your TCM's support TPS which is analog input.. and all WTEC-III is supposed to support throttle by can as well.. with a fallback.. I dont have a bench harness for these older TCM's or id plug into your donor with my DOC and read its calibration points.. the CIN number can give the calibration adjustments when given to any allison dealer.. nice ones should be able to print it out for you so you know what to go on.. (shift points, throttle type etc)
-Christopher
My original hope was that I could give the numbers from the donor TCM to an Allison dealer and they could reflash my TCM. Iíve been holding off because I donít know if it matters that my T-handle shifter is ďdivorcedĒ whereas this one is attached to the TCM, or if anything needs to be done with my shifter.
Iím currently trying to find a compatible TCM to reflash, and if it doesnít work I still have my original to reinstall.
The pics show my shifter (1-4+D) and what is with the donor TCM (1-5+D)
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:09 PM   #143
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Engine: 300HP ISC 8.3L w/ B3/400R Trans
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
A wtec3 should be able to run the transmission the big issue is how the throttle is input into the tcm . I think it’s analog on a wtec2 and you need a wtec3 that’s the same and not expecting a j939 input. They are usually marked as to the throttle type. I know wtec3 can use an analog throttle but they also came made for the electronic engines which use j1939. Without a good throttle input you’ll have very bad drive quality and likely ruin the transmission due to low line pressure high torque shifts
Christopher
Thanks Christopher. So there's a remote chance, assuming I can find a replacement that matches along with factoring in the specifics Ringa made. May be about the same chance as finding someone with an exact match that already has a 6-speed mod. Not impossible though! Thank you both, as it gives me a potential path if I manage to catch the unicorn we're after.

Good luck with your search concrete. I hope it works out, as others would benefit from knowing what's successful.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:21 PM   #144
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Thanks Christopher. So there's a remote chance, assuming I can find a replacement that matches along with factoring in the specifics Ringa made. May be about the same chance as finding someone with an exact match that already has a 6-speed mod. Not impossible though! Thank you both, as it gives me a potential path if I manage to catch the unicorn we're after.

Good luck with your search concrete. I hope it works out, as others would benefit from knowing what's successful.
Thanks P.I. IT WILL HAPPEN! If I have to glue a horn on a horse and teach it to poop 🌈ainbows, the unicorn will live!
It doesnít have to be today, it doesnít have to be tomorrow, but it will beóthanks to the input and efforts of each other.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:27 PM   #145
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Where is the TCM usually located on a rear engine Thomas bus, anyone know?
Not sure where it is on a Thomas but on an R/E AMTRAN it is located between transmission and passenger side frame rail.

I would take a quick look there.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:33 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Bon Voyage View Post
Where is the TCM usually located on a rear engine Thomas bus, anyone know?
If your bus has the updated plastic dash it lives underneath the access hatch by the stairs. Should be bolted on the left side of the frame holding the fuse panel. Comes out in 5 minutes once you know how.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:46 PM   #147
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Iím working with my local Allison shop right now as I just got the approval letter from Thomas this week. Thomas doesnít want the 6th to engage till 70.2 mph on flat ground, that seems a little high to me. The Allison shop is trying to get that at a lower speed for me too, as well as a better shift range for the other gears so will see what they come up with.
If it ends up too expensive or Allison wonít then Iíll try this other guy noted above.

I asked the mechanic what he thought of this md3060 transmission and he said it was the best there is, along with another one,the 4500 or something like that.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:57 PM   #148
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I only just got mine unlocked a few weeks ago. But my tech made no special requests from Allison other than 6th be unlocked on the new calibration. I was concerned about that note made by Thomas as well but the tech said “let’s try it” and low and behold all shift points seem fine and 6th happens somewhere in the low to mid 50’s. Engine brake even still works. Shifts were pretty hard the first few miles as the transmission relearned itself but now it’s smooth like before. Cruising 65+ is a breeze! I paid $120 flat shop rate for 1 hour of the techs time.
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:54 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bon Voyage View Post
Iím working with my local Allison shop right now as I just got the approval letter from Thomas this week. Thomas doesnít want the 6th to engage till 70.2 mph on flat ground, that seems a little high to me. The Allison shop is trying to get that at a lower speed for me too, as well as a better shift range for the other gears so will see what they come up with.
If it ends up too expensive or Allison wonít then Iíll try this other guy noted above.

I asked the mechanic what he thought of this md3060 transmission and he said it was the best there is, along with another one,the 4500 or something like that.



the 6th engagement should be throttle based... what is your RPM at 70 MPH in 5th gear? the last thing you want to do is go to 6th under a decent amount of throttle and end up lugging the engine.. under full throttle it should not engage 6th until you are at or just above max power output for the engine...



but ultimately there is a raising or lowering of the shift point based on throttle inout.. .interesting to know what they mean by "flat ground"
-Christopher
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Old 12-16-2018, 01:26 AM   #150
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I really hope mine will only be $120 but I have a suspicion theyíll want more... things in Canada always cost more; and they sent a guy from the shop to my house to download my engine and tranny info so they can get me the best shift points. They wanted the weight of the bus but as Iíve just finished raising the roof I canít quite say how much it will weigh when Iím done. Nor can I see yet what my rpmís are at since itís not driveable. All I remember is it was at about 2250 rpm at 65 mph. Itís a 5.4 differential. So considering that maybe I donít want an earlier shift... will see what the shop recommends. My main goal is fuel economy and performance second. Oh and 110 km/h (68 mph) is the highest speed limit Iíve seen in Canada so theoretically Iíd never see the 6th gear used except when I go down south. (But who stays under the limit)

The last paragraph of the letter says this:
ďApproved. 5-6 shift will occur at 70.2 mph on flat ground, so a speed limiter change to 75 mph is required and the minimum tire speed rating MUST be 75 mph. FCCC/TBB engineering not responsible for damage to transmission due to 5-6 shift cycling on uneven ground.Ē

I have no speed limiter as I caught myself going over 80 a few times on my trip home with it. (No cruise control).
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:42 AM   #151
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I did a little pl;aying with your numbers.. 70 MPH is about the redline on your engine.. so that makes sense that it will shift to 6th then... that should be a hard stop.. likely they will run you a 2400 RPM shift schedule..



ultimately the basic shift schedule is easy to begin.. you set up your full throttle shifts to hit near max RPM of the engine.. just below..



transmission hunting is a big issue when going up and down hills.. and engine lugging is easy to do.. with an MD3060 on flat ground you set your shifter to allow all gear.. but when you are going up and down hills and you notice it dropping down then back up each grade, then hit the button and run it in 5th until you are back in the flat... same goes for winds..



transmission hunting does wear things out and heat up transmissions.. common sense is just to pay attention and run in the gear best suited for the conditions you are in..



my red bus is a bit over-geared .. its a light bus but even so.. my 6th gear results in some hunting or engine lugging in the hills.. so I drop it to 5 and run like that... climbiung mountains I drop to 4 most times..



you should be in that 1850-1900 rasnge in 6th which oin flat ground is pretty much right in the sweet spot of that 8.3 for decent power and good MPG's..



the ratios of your MD-3060 are 4th 1:00 then 5th 0.75 and 6th 0.65 so you have quite a step to go up to 5 from 4.. whuich is perfect with the design you have.. hopefully it doesnt shift to 6th really early at light throttle..



im learning allison keeps the actual base shift calibrations close to their chest... which ticks me off because I have the DOC premium with re-programming and I still cant alter base shift schedules on anything but the oldest TCM's..

-Christopher
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:46 PM   #152
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Hello everyone. I joined skoolie.net a really long time ago and have been away for a very long time. Decided to come back and see what all is and has been going on here and saw this topic and thought I would share my experience and what I have been through as it is important that others know since this is/was a very difficult topic due to what is and is not needed.

I update my bus from the last time I was here. The current bus is a 2001 International AMTRAN RE 78 passenger with a DT466e and a MD3060.

I contacted the best known Allison dealer in the Dallas Texas area. They have done 6th gear unlocks on a wide range of trucks so they set me up with the Allison docs required to make the change. It more or less says you need to get a release of Liability from the chassis maker. Once you get that letter from them the Allison dealer will contact Allison and they will create a new "cal" that needs to be loaded in to the TCM and you should be good to go.

I became pretty good friends with my local International dealer in Arlington TX. He took my information and we went through the request for the 6th gear unlock. I think he made a bad judgement while filling it out. He put in the requested speed to be 80 mph. Well he submitted it and we waited a while to get a reply back. Well the reply I got back was NO. Pretty much due to age. Feeling a bit frustrated on the matter I kind of let it set and maybe something else will come down the pipe.

I am the admin of a secret ( meaning not open to the public) Facebook group that does bus conversion. One of the people in my group is the salesman I bought my bus from. He saw a post I put in there on the 6th gear unlocking. So we had some private messages and he put me in touch with one of his customers that has had this done. So I call up this customer and he took me through the process of what he does to get this to happen. Well the long story short is this..... The relationship of the bus dealership and International is EVERYTHING. If they have a good relationship chances of getting the release letter are good. If you are some ho hum dealer that does not do this very often or ever.... chances are zero it will get a release. So with that info I thought I would contact that dealer to see if they could get me a release.... well that never happened.

So after reading all 13 pages of this post there seems to be a good light with going around Allison. So I am REALLY REALLY hoping this can happen. By the looks of what I am equipped with it should be just a send off to that company and get it reprogrammed.

Can someone point me where my tcm is on a rear engine Amtran 2001 model? Much appreciated. Thank you to all who have posted here.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:56 PM   #153
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On my FE it's mounted on the left front corner of the motor, don't know if it's the same on an RE.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:58 PM   #154
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I have a '99 Amtran RE with the same setup, DT466e & MD3060.

My TCM is located right next to tranny, passenger side, between tranny and frame rail.

Also, If you go looking for the VIM, Vehicle interface module, where the two fuses for the TCM are located, it is the big black box where the rear key switch is located.
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Old 01-05-2019, 09:54 PM   #155
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Thanks for the info.

This has renewed my faith in all of this. Like many here I am not trying to break land speed records just lower my rpm at highway speed.

I will get under the bus and see if I can find it.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:13 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
On my FE it's mounted on the left front corner of the motor, don't know if it's the same on an RE.
That's your ECM, not TCM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:29 PM   #157
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Thanks for the info.

This has renewed my faith in all of this. Like many here I am not trying to break land speed records just lower my rpm at highway speed.

I will get under the bus and see if I can find it.

My bus will cruise at 75mph at roughly 2100 rpm... I'm good with that!

BTW, if your shift panel ever goes dark, like it did on my bus...
Here is the thread on how I fixed it. Was quite simple.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/md...nel-24837.html


I also posted electrical diagrams specific to an Amtran RE, you can find it here -> http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f49/am...ams-25055.html
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:31 PM   #158
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Thats what I am looking for..... I would also be good with those numbers
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:48 PM   #159
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Hey Christopher,

Are you able to tell me if this is the correct TCM for my 2002?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLISON-TRA...edirect=mobile

Thanks

S.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:32 PM   #160
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That seems like low RPM for an 8.3 I was thinking you should have a 2400 or so. You will want to match rpm and throttle type to your current TCM. It should be stamped on it like the one in the eBay ad
Christopher
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