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Old 01-08-2019, 06:03 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
Hey Christopher,

Are you able to tell me if this is the correct TCM for my 2002?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLISON-TRA...edirect=mobile

Thanks

S.
Yikes, that's the same place I bought my spare TCM from and they were only charging $200 at the time. Guess they realized they were very under priced.

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Old 01-17-2019, 06:35 PM   #162
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The Allison shop came to my house before Christmas and downloaded the original TCM calibration and sent the request to Allison; the mechanic just came by again today and updated it and I now have a 6 on my control pad! It only cost me about $180 and that's pretty good for Canada especially since they came to my house to do it (my bus isn't driveable being in the middle of conversion; and the service manager cut me a break from regular cost which would've been $425).

It seems strange though some buses can get it and others can't, there was no mention of the transmission being too old.

The only thing I want to find out is will it now be governed at 75 MPH, the mechanic said he didn't think it would but who knows; I didn't have a governor in it before but the letter from Thomas said it had to be governed at 75. I'll live with staying at 75 in the 80 zones if I have to. And as far as I know the shift points are all at the same as they were. They're going to email me all the parameters and I'll post them when I get them in case anyone is interested.
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Old 01-17-2019, 06:52 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Bon Voyage View Post
The Allison shop came to my house before Christmas and downloaded the original TCM calibration and sent the request to Allison; the mechanic just came by again today and updated it and I now have a 6 on my control pad! It only cost me about $180 and that's pretty good for Canada especially since they came to my house to do it (my bus isn't driveable being in the middle of conversion; and the service manager cut me a break from regular cost which would've been $425).

It seems strange though some buses can get it and others can't, there was no mention of the transmission being too old.

The only thing I want to find out is will it now be governed at 75 MPH, the mechanic said he didn't think it would but who knows; I didn't have a governor in it before but the letter from Thomas said it had to be governed at 75. I'll live with staying at 75 in the 80 zones if I have to. And as far as I know the shift points are all at the same as they were. They're going to email me all the parameters and I'll post them when I get them in case anyone is interested.

are you talking MPH or KPH? - it would make a big difference
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:06 PM   #164
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MPH. The bus is from Washington so it’s in miles.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:20 PM   #165
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Here's the parameters. It's not what I thought it was, I don't understand anything on the first page but here it is if it means anything to anybody else. The older date at the top is my old one and the newer date is my updated TCM
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:26 PM   #166
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Doesn't seem to want to work... They're PDF files so I'll try again later.
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File Type: pdf 201901171648.pdf (200.0 KB, 40 views)
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:18 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bon Voyage View Post
The Allison shop came to my house before Christmas and downloaded the original TCM calibration and sent the request to Allison; the mechanic just came by again today and updated it and I now have a 6 on my control pad! It only cost me about $180 and that's pretty good for Canada especially since they came to my house to do it (my bus isn't driveable being in the middle of conversion; and the service manager cut me a break from regular cost which would've been $425).

It seems strange though some buses can get it and others can't, there was no mention of the transmission being too old.
That's pretty cool the mechanic came to you. I think if I tried that in the US they'd just laugh in my face. And the second part just seems to depend on the manufacturer. Thomas seems to be much more willing to give approval for the 6th gear unlock than Navistar does. Navistar doesn't have digital records of bus build sheets before the early 2000's. So if Navistar doesn't happen to have that for your particular bus they aren't willing to do it.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:07 AM   #168
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the first page are the physical wires on the TCM used for various functions.. there all kinds of functions that can be assigned to Physical wires.. i have a book that explains them all.. the second page are items that if a customer purchases the allison DOC software, they can modify those parameters.. often related to overheating and when or not to use a retarder..



allison holds the actual shift points close to their chest.. on many TCMs you can use aftermarket tools to program them.. thats how I program all of my shift points, I use EFIlive.. allison frowns greatly on that kind of thing...



someone with allison DOC software that has reprogramming allowed.. could download the CAL file out of your transmission TCM and load it into another... the CIN number is the Calibration ID number. the TCM you load it into would have to be of the same type, and the bus of the same parameters for it all to work correctly.. (same engine type, same trans, same throttle type)...
-Christopher
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:07 PM   #169
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Great info. Thank you.

Later j
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:01 AM   #170
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6th gear enabled!! 5/3/2019!
Having failed to locate a reasonably priced TCM with which to experiment, I took a gamble and had my TCM reprogrammed with the identity of the the 6sp TCM I previously posted a photo of (post #140). The tech at Allison had to modify the programming slightly, but he was successful!
1hr flat rate- $140.
I supplied him with the photo of the 6sp TCM ID tag (I think what they needed was the CIN on the tag—the calibration number), my VIN, tranny serial number, and my TCM. I Also brought in my 5sp T-handle shifter so he could confirm compatibility; but I don’t think this is normally needed.
I’ve only put a few miles on it to confirm it works, and as expected the shift points are a little wonky. Hopefully this is strictly a matter of the TCM needing to relearn how to “walk” after having its mind erased.
•And a shout-out to Aron the service manager at the Allison dealer in Anchorage. He showed exceptional patience and professionalism in dealing with me and all my questions. He even arranged to pick up my hardware to save me the hour commute into town! Above and beyond!
Moral of the story: if it’s worth it to you, don’t give up. If your OEM turns you down, find a compatible TCM/CIN and do it anyway.
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:01 AM   #171
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this is great stuff!! any idea what the RPM of the CIN you took vs the CIN you had on your TCM?



reflashing with different CAL files is a great way to go. but be sure to match the RPM and if you can the vehicle type.. your TCM will adapt some, but mostly the adaptive learning is in reference to shift quality more than shift points.. the TCM works to eliminate flares or binds in the shift quality.. the older TCMs this happens over time, on the newer ones, you reset the Fast adapts then go out and run through 4 cycles of WOT shifts 1-4, then stop, do it again .. if you swap a 2700 RPM CIN into a vehicle that ran on a 2600 RPM CIN , the shift points will be off a bit, however it will work. theres apparently not much that can be adjusted in a base cal as far as shift points go except for allison themselves..
-Christopher
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:18 PM   #172
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thanks for the info on the learning curves/styles of the TCMs.
“any idea what the RPM of the CIN you took vs the CIN you had on your TCM?”
Good question Chris. They’re both 2300 rpm CIN’s. I suspect the difference may be in the Throttle Position Sensor programming. Mine presumably Navistar/IH, and the donor might be Cummins. I say “might be” because i didn’t know what it came out of, but paperwork with my new CIN makes reference to Cummins and “Refuse vehicle, Severe Landfill or Plow” as the Occupational application.
Perhaps an adjustment of my TPS will do the trick? Or replace it with a different one? Or reprogram the TCM TPS calibration?
Or something else entirely...
But this is a bit of cart-before-the-horse; I first need to drive it more to see if it’s actually an issue.
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:10 AM   #173
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So I’ve had a chance to drive it more and it seems like it’s shifting about like it did with the previous programming. Generally I’d like it to shift a little sooner through the lower gears (even in economy mode), but no big deal. I haven’t had it out on the 65mph Hwy yet, but 6th is nice even at 55.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:26 AM   #174
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you can "massage" the shfting with the throttle... I do this on mine... I have my shift points set just a little later.. by lifting off the accelerater slightly you can cause the unit to upshift.. then get back on the pedal and it should have a decent deadband before it drops back down..


also in youyr case since you are a mechanical engine, there should be a mechanical TPS someplace.. possibly a cable that goes to your pedal or to the throttle linkage on the P-pump... that mechanical p[iece should be adjustable.. the tighter the TPS cable is pulled, the higher the shift point...
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:24 PM   #175
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Thanks Chris. I’ll try that.

In another thread-related question— when looking at the calibration sticker on the TCM/ECU, What does “TYPE:” refer to?
My original calibration was “TYPE: MAX”, the donor 6spd was “TYPE: BASIC”
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:22 PM   #176
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im not familiar with that... usually they list the throttle type as J1939, GMLAN, or Analog. and often the Max RPM for the calibration.. ie the RPM the input shaft or TC is spinning when it upshifts at full throttle...

-Christopher
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:08 PM   #177
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Both CIN stickers list as TPS, I’m assuming this meaning analog. I’m referring to another line on the sticker labeled as “TYPE:”, followed by “basic” on one, “max” on the other. I forgot to ask the Allison tech while I had the chance.
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:54 AM   #178
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Thanks fellow Skoolies for all the information on unlocking the 6th gear!!! I have a Thomas B2/C2 with a MBE 926 engine & a 2500 PTS tranny.

I reached out to Thomas and they connected me to a Freightliner Custom Chassis Corporation rep and he got the approval from to increase the speed from 70 to 75 based on the rating on my tire size.

I then reached out to Allison and had to provide my CIN, VIN and sign a letter of of release. A couple weeks later, got the new mapping and went up to Clarke Power up in Greensboro and they increased the speed, unlocked the 6th gear, changed the trans fluid and filter for $450.

It’s so much better now to be able to do 65-70 mph and not revving the engine so high. It will be nice on the highway during my next trip!!!

Thanks again fellow Skoolies!!!
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:07 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel Travelers View Post
Thanks fellow Skoolies for all the information on unlocking the 6th gear!!! I have a Thomas B2/C2 with a MBE 926 engine & a 2500 PTS tranny.

I reached out to Thomas and they connected me to a Freightliner Custom Chassis Corporation rep and he got the approval from to increase the speed from 70 to 75 based on the rating on my tire size.

I then reached out to Allison and had to provide my CIN, VIN and sign a letter of of release. A couple weeks later, got the new mapping and went up to Clarke Power up in Greensboro and they increased the speed, unlocked the 6th gear, changed the trans fluid and filter for $450.

It’s so much better now to be able to do 65-70 mph and not revving the engine so high. It will be nice on the highway during my next trip!!!

Thanks again fellow Skoolies!!!


Glad it worked out. I never took a long trip without 6th, but my rear ending gearing is so high it would have been excruciating. Even with 6th, 65 is my top reasonable cruise speed, although can hit 70 if I really want.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:47 PM   #180
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Does anyone have a early 2000s bus with a Cummins ISC and Allison B300 with 6th unlocked that would be willing to share their vin and transmission serial #? My shop thought they could reprogram my TCM if I had that info to get the program from allison.

Thanks

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