Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-05-2020, 04:14 PM   #1
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Lebanon, IN
Posts: 91
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466e/Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 65
Any tips on metal skin at roof-raise transition?

I've got a conventional School bus that I did a 14 and 1/2 inch roof raise on. Got all the sheet metal up on the sides. I got to the point where I was ready to attempt the roof transition, I had a sheet of 20 gauge galvanized but the compound curve was just too much for my limited metalworking skills. Even with trying to do multiple pieces around the tightest part of the curve it's still just wasn't working for me. Does anyone have any tips or tricks? I would prefer to stick with metal but I'm not entirely opposed to learning how to fiberglass if that's my best option.
cdrobbins77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 04:37 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,893
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Pics of the section in question, the framing?


John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 04:41 PM   #3
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,355
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdrobbins77 View Post
I've got a conventional School bus that I did a 14 and 1/2 inch roof raise on. Got all the sheet metal up on the sides. I got to the point where I was ready to attempt the roof transition, I had a sheet of 20 gauge galvanized but the compound curve was just too much for my limited metalworking skills. Even with trying to do multiple pieces around the tightest part of the curve it's still just wasn't working for me. Does anyone have any tips or tricks? I would prefer to stick with metal but I'm not entirely opposed to learning how to fiberglass if that's my best option.
I used the thickest plate steel I could work with. In this case it was 18ga.
Carefully using a large piece of poster board I made a template.
Then I cut the steel very carefully until it looked and fit perfectly.





That's the late, great Eddie Sampson at work^ RIP brother!


__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 04:49 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 9,030
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Yep, ratchet straps to pull it into shape.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 05:19 PM   #5
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Lebanon, IN
Posts: 91
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466e/Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Pics of the section in question, the framing?


John
Only pics i have of that section. i have since removed all the rivets and the small 3" section of roof skin on the upper portion, all the rivets on the lower roof section, and welded on angle pieces to each transition tube steel
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20191227_170620138_HDR.jpg (246.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191227_170632109.jpg (287.7 KB, 16 views)
cdrobbins77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 05:36 PM   #6
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Lebanon, IN
Posts: 91
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466e/Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 65
pics of the bus
cdrobbins77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 06:00 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
banman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,178
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdrobbins77 View Post
I've got a conventional School bus that I did a 14 and 1/2 inch roof raise on. Got all the sheet metal up on the sides. I got to the point where I was ready to attempt the roof transition, I had a sheet of 20 gauge galvanized but the compound curve was just too much for my limited metalworking skills. Even with trying to do multiple pieces around the tightest part of the curve it's still just wasn't working for me. Does anyone have any tips or tricks? I would prefer to stick with metal but I'm not entirely opposed to learning how to fiberglass if that's my best option.
search "metal working english wheel"
Probably not the tooling you wanna invest in but maybe available at a makers space?

Make a form from plywood scraps to match the contour of the transition shape you want. 1Ĺ" thick or so, cut with a saber saw, put the form in a vice and slowly gently start hammering your metal to conform to the bend of the profile. You want to keep working it till it mostly lies in place how you want it so you're not "fighting it" in place when you fasten it. If it's installed under a lot of tension from just be clamped and forced into place it will always be putting undue stress on the fasteners and probably be more prone to leaking and "oil canning" ...
Take your time and have fun with this process -- feel how the metal is 'plastic' as you move it.
__________________
David

The Murder Bus
banman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 07:31 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,355
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
If you start at the sides, you can make it out of 3 pieces and it should come out looking good if you're careful and take your time. Allow for a bit of overlap where the top comes over the sides.
Bending isn't much of an issue just use some light ratchet straps. Tack it all down with a mig.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 07:35 PM   #9
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 9,030
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
It takes 100's of hours to become proficient on an English wheel to shape into the design you want. Not something I would recommend to a noob to the process.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2020, 09:42 AM   #10
Almost There
 
shaymcquaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Just south of Dallas.
Posts: 95
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 40' MVP-ER
Engine: Cat 3126
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
It takes 100's of hours to become proficient on an English wheel to shape into the design you want. Not something I would recommend to a noob to the process.
Amen. The English wheel is not for the novice.
shaymcquaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2020, 10:23 AM   #11
Bus Crazy
 
banman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,178
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaymcquaid View Post
Amen. The English wheel is not for the novice.
Agreed, but...
One must begin at the beginning... (the Tao of Po)

...and the OP asked how does one form metal?
__________________
David

The Murder Bus
banman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2020, 01:00 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
wrenchtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 333
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
Equally important as the English wheel is the planishing hammer and other tools for shrinking or stretching sheet metal. None of which I am proficient with, but a guy can dream and plan for the future.

This series from YouTube is an excellent place to start building sheet metal shaping skills with simple hand tools.



When you’re ready to graduate to larger stationary tools there are many dealers.
https://www.trick-tools.com/tools/Planishing-Hammer
wrenchtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2020, 01:23 PM   #13
Bus Nut
 
wrenchtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 333
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
Iím kind of surprised too, that I have not seen anyone tackling any of these panel making projects with composite construction, i.e. fiberglass and the many substrates, like marine plywood, shaped foam, or even balsa wood, that can be used with polyester and epoxy resinís.
wrenchtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2020, 01:32 PM   #14
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,291
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenchtech View Post
Iím kind of surprised too, that I have not seen anyone tackling any of these panel making projects with composite construction, i.e. fiberglass and the many substrates, like marine plywood, shaped foam, or even balsa wood, that can be used with polyester and epoxy resinís.
I have had my fingers in a handful of boatbuilding projects including hulls built from foam sheets, fiberglass and epoxy resin. The foam was shaped to conform with the male mold and then covered with fiberglass using epoxy resin. Finally the hull was removed from the forms and fiberglassed on the inside.

The result was an extremely tough hull.

I can see that working for the roof transition. The only place that I would be concerned with is the mating surfaces where fiberglass meets metal. I don't know if it would present a challenge or not.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2020, 01:41 PM   #15
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,355
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaymcquaid View Post
Amen. The English wheel is not for the novice.
Its supposedly a very tough tool to master.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2020, 01:42 PM   #16
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,355
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenchtech View Post
Iím kind of surprised too, that I have not seen anyone tackling any of these panel making projects with composite construction, i.e. fiberglass and the many substrates, like marine plywood, shaped foam, or even balsa wood, that can be used with polyester and epoxy resinís.
Stu did and regretted it.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 01:05 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
wrenchtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 333
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Stu did and regretted it.
Iíd like to hear more about that.
wrenchtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 01:27 AM   #18
Bus Nut
 
wrenchtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 333
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post

... I can see that working for the roof transition. The only place that I would be concerned with is the mating surfaces where fiberglass meets metal. I don't know if it would present a challenge or not.
It seems like people have been bonding composite parts to metal car bodies for quite some time with great success. Usually it’s not recommended for structural components but rather for cosmetic stuff like wheel flares. The Singer Porsche 911 resto-mod make extensive use of composites, Replacing roof skins, hoods, deck lids with carbon fiber pieces, some of which must be structural (the roof skin at least).
wrenchtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2020, 06:58 PM   #19
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 551
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I used the thickest plate steel I could work with. In this case it was 18ga.
Carefully using a large piece of poster board I made a template.
Then I cut the steel very carefully until it looked and fit perfectly.
I believe 18 ga. is refered to as sheet, not plate.
Terrible instructions, but the transition looks really good.
kidharris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2020, 08:47 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,355
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidharris View Post
I believe 18 ga. is refered to as sheet, not plate.
Terrible instructions, but the transition looks really good.
How are they such terrible instructions?
Plate, sheet.... semantics. Anyone ordering the steel knows what 18ga hot rolled or cold rolled is.
If OP wants to ask about any "instructions" I'm all ears.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×