Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-11-2015, 03:29 PM   #81
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by lornaschinske View Post
You are the reason I first posted links to No Shock Zone in RV Electrical Safety.
Again, some one took something free on the net, made it into a book with their own interpretation, and started trying to make money off of it.

I'm the reason Lorna? Care to elaborate with more detail?

I have never had a electrical issue in any of the homes I have wired.

I fully support the use of grounds. Just not connected to the metal bus.

Nat

__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline  
Old 03-11-2015, 07:13 PM   #82
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 147
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TE2000 FE
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: 84
As a generator tech and solar designer and installer one of the things in life that always seems to be in the way is the "if factor". If you do or don't maintain your power system what could happen? You might get a shock one morning or it may work properly. If you don't like grounds to the metal then don't ground that way if you do then do. But a grounded 12 volt system to the chassis was meant to reduce the amount of wire runs made on the vehicle and reduce interference
Simply put do as you all will, me I like grounds to the metal part. Now no one said anything about cheap inverters, there are some very expensive inverters on the market that do not bond neutral at all. I've spent hours trying to keep a customer from wasting money on them because expensive must be better.
Ships and boats are another story I will never claim to understand how they work. But I do believe they must have a return circuit or electrons wont flow. What ever they call it neutral, ground or return of the magical smoke inducing stuff. It has to be. I'm not sure of Canada but here in the good old USA our service entrance is all 3 wire from a center tapped transformer. Hot, neutral and hot. Ground is established at the service entrance of the house with a rod, plate or properly sized and buried wire. Mobile wiring in not exactly like house wiring, neither is on grid done the same as off grid. While this debate can carry on how's about we agree to disagree on chassis grounding. Nat you wont and I will.

Have fun
Chuck
cschlessman is offline  
Old 03-11-2015, 07:20 PM   #83
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Well said chuck, pro's and con's to both.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline  
Old 03-11-2015, 07:27 PM   #84
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 147
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TE2000 FE
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: 84
One thing to remember no matter how you wire your stuff check those pesky service plugs in the came grounds. I use a meter because it reads small and large voltages. After I plug in I check my bus for hot skin. No I don't touch it I use a Fluke "no contact tester" works great.

Be Safe be smart and "Live Long and Prosper"
Chuck
cschlessman is offline  
Old 03-11-2015, 10:40 PM   #85
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Adirondack Mountains NY
Posts: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by taskswap View Post
. . . .
Anyway, that means neutral and ground are the SAME THING in the main panel in your house - and probably should be in your RV, too. But only at that one location. In almost all configurations, everything downstream (sub-panels, other boxes, etc.) should be "unbonded" . . .
The bus load center (circuit breaker box) is always a "downstream" sub-panel from the main disconnecting device in the house or campground that you are plugged into. The neutral should be bonded to ground at that main disconnect, but never inside a vehicle fed by a shoreline. Use a buss bar insulated from ground for the neutral wires in your bus.

Quote:
A GFCI can be installed anywhere - it's usually point-of-use (in the bathroom, kitchen, etc.) There are GFCI devices that can "chain" or be installed "upstream" - examine your device for installation instructions.
I have daisy-chained GFCIs at home - the GFCI feeding the bedroom also feeds another GFCI in the bathroom. There are "hot" and "protected screws on a GFCI outlet, but both the downstream hot and neutral must be connected to the protected side. You cannot just connect the hot and then tie all the neutrals together.

Also, if you bond the neutral to the ground anywhere downstream of any GFCI, it trips RIGHT NOW! So if you bond neutral and ground in the load center on your bus. and connect the shoreline to a GFCI-protected outlet, don't be surprised when there is no power being fed.
__________________
Someone said "Making good decisions comes from experience, experience comes from bad decisions." I say there are three kinds of people: those who learn from their mistakes, those who learn from the mistakes of others, and those who never learn.
Redbear is offline  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:14 AM   #86
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 258
Yeah, lots of different ideas here and no clear right or wrong, except I TOTALLY agree with the statement about shore power feeds. Those are a MIXED BAG and I don't mean oats and wheat. 2-day-a-year campers beat the tar out of a lot of them - I can't count the times I've found a broken blade or ground pin still stuck in an outlet. I definitely don't trust them with my life.

Trust... But verify...
taskswap is offline  
Old 03-12-2015, 08:30 AM   #87
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Cuyahoga Falls Ohio
Posts: 592
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Startrans
Chassis: Ford e-350 single wheel
Engine: 5.4 litre
Rated Cap: 12
If you don't ground the metal skin of your bus then you have no protection from a wire shorting out onto the metal skin and creating a hot skin situation. Granted if you go with a ground plate in the lake you should be fine, but how convenient is that? And pretty sure that will not meet code in USA.
leadsled01 is offline  
Old 03-12-2015, 08:31 PM   #88
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadsled01 View Post
If you don't ground the metal skin of your bus then you have no protection from a wire shorting out onto the metal skin and creating a hot skin situation.
Every wire will be in plastic conduit. No chance of a wire ever touching the metal.

My stabilizer jacks touch the ground. The bus will always be grounded by them whenever parked.

My AC electrical system will be grounded with the ground rod, or ground plate.
Even a ground wire with a clamp on the end for metal water pipes that are buried in the earth at the campground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leadsled01 View Post
Granted if you go with a ground plate in the lake you should be fine, but how convenient is that? And pretty sure that will not meet code in USA.
What code? RV Code? Residential code?


Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline  
Old 03-21-2015, 11:29 PM   #89
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
I read the book too, years ago.

I will not use the body or any metal of the bus as a ground. All grounds will be isolated from the metal in the bus.

I will be using all plastic boxes. No metal.

Every wire will be in plastic conduit.

The way most RV's are grounded is poor at best. I will be using a ground plate in the moist earth, or a ground plate submerged into a pond for a good ground.

If you don't connect any grounds, ect to your bus, you will have no chance of hot skinning. A energized bus is the last thing I want.

Nat
I'm Mike Sokol, writer of the No~Shock~Zone blog, which I began to write copyright back in 2010, and the book No~Shock~Zone RV Electrical Safety, which includes all my original No~Shock~Zone articles which I published first as a Kindle book mid 2014, then as a paperback in late 2014. The book contains additional new content and diagrams that was never on the blog. So no, I definitely DID NOT pull together a bunch of free stuff from the Internet into a book. I wrote every word, created every graphic, and took every picture myself.

Now in terms of isolating the incoming AC ground from the RV chassis, that's not only a violation of the NFPA-70E National Electrical Code, it's a violation of the RVIA code that specifies how RVs are to be wired. Plus it's REALLY dangerous, and here's why. Even if you do succeed in isolating your RV's chassis/skin from the incoming AC Ground (The EGC - Electrical Grounding Conductor) there's ALWAYS the chance of an electrical appliance shorting out internally. For instance, I've serviced a number of microwave ovens that had their power transformers overheat and begin dumping fault current to their chassis. Without a proper, low-impedance fault path, it can offer a serious shock hazard to anyone touching it and any interior metal, or even a stream of water from the faucet. So to be code compliant, your RV's chassis needs to be bonded to the incoming safety ground wire (EGC) in the shore power line. And that safety ground MUST be isolated from the RV's neutral wire. The neutral and ground will be bonded together externally, eventually from the campground or home's electrical service panel, or possibly your generator which may require an internal Ground-Neutral bond.

Secondly, putting your jacks down on the dirt does essentially NOTHING to "ground" your RV. And even pounding in an 8-ft ground rod really doesn't "ground" your RV. That's because the "ground" wire in the shore power line is really misnamed. It really should be called the "bonding conductor" which connects your RV chassis back to the service panels Ground-Neutral bonding point. This is what creates a high-current fault path which is what trips the circuit breaker to protect you from shock. Jack plates on the ground create a few thousand ohm "earth path" at best, when less than a 1 ohm fault path in the EGC is required by code. Even a properly installed ground rod can measure up to 100 ohms to earth and still be in compliance. It's really there to act as a path for lightning, and not as a ground fault path for 120-volt shorts. So yes, a ground rod DOES NOT ground your RV. Please don't argue with me on this because it's all in the NEC if you'll take the time to read it. Remember, I'm stating scientific fact, not my opinion.

Now, what qualifies me to say this? Well, I have a mechanical engineering degree from 1974 plus most of an electrical engineering degree two years later, plus I earned a Master Electrician License back in 1978. Additionally, over the last 5 years I've created and run dozens of electrical grounding experiments seeking to confirm how this all works for the RV and pro-sound industry.

And I've run my grounding experiments and conclusions by a bunch of my EE buddies, including electrical substation engineers, manufacturer engineering groups, and the guys who write the RV technician training manuals. And they all concur with my findings about RV grounding. I've also discovered and named a few miswiring conditions which the electrical construction and test industry had not been aware of. See Failures in Outlet Testing Exposed | Contractor content from Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine where I introduce the concept of a Reverse Polarity Bootleg Ground. And here's an interview for B&K Precision where I show some of the gear I use to create my electrical shock demonstrations. Mike Sokol: Electrical Shock Prevention in Sound Systems - B&K Precision

So if you have any questions about how this all works, please email me or post them here. I'll be glad to attempt to clarify the technology. It really can be confusing, even for electricians and technicians.

Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
No Shock Zone
jmsokol is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 07:16 AM   #90
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Adirondack Mountains NY
Posts: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsokol View Post
. . . So to be code compliant, your RV's chassis needs to be bonded to the incoming safety ground wire (EGC) in the shore power line. And that safety ground MUST be isolated from the RV's neutral wire. The neutral and ground will be bonded together externally, eventually from the campground or home's electrical service panel, or possibly your generator which may require an internal Ground-Neutral bond . . .
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
No Shock Zone
Thanks, Mike.

p.s. nat_ster is in Canada. I don't know if the NEC applies as rule there, but best practices should.
__________________
Someone said "Making good decisions comes from experience, experience comes from bad decisions." I say there are three kinds of people: those who learn from their mistakes, those who learn from the mistakes of others, and those who never learn.
Redbear is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 10:28 AM   #91
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbear View Post
Thanks, Mike.

p.s. nat_ster is in Canada. I don't know if the NEC applies as rule there, but best practices should.
You're welcome. One thing to be aware of is that much of the insurance and legal industry in the US is driven by code compliance. So if you choose to build something that does not comply with a building or electrical code, and there's an accident of some sort, your insurance company could refuse to play the claim. I've also heard legal discussions about charging someone criminally if there's injury or death that results from knowing non-compliance. For instance, just last year a young boy was electrocuted by his parent's RV trailer in his back yard. They had been feeling warning shocks for a week prior to the accident, but didn't take it seriously. The trailer was plugged into a broken/rusted receptacle that obviously needed repair. I had a discussion with the local sheriff about charging the parents with involuntary manslaughter, but since it was a small town and the parents were devastated, no charges were filed. However, last year a city electrical worker admitted to not grounding/bonding street electrical boxes properly since they would be constantly resetting tripped breakers. A young girl was electrocuted (died) while walking on the wet street and stepping on the box cover. Of course this admission about not grounding the box on purpose opened up the city for a wrongful death lawsuit in the millions of dollars. Now I'm not trying to scare everyone. But if you build something that you know is unsafe according to code, and loss of life or property damage occurs, you now can become a target. The point is, if you don't like something in the electrical code, then get the code changed, don't just ignore it. I read constantly about electrocution deaths in countries like India simply because there's virtually no electrical inspections and no training for electricians or technicians. I always recommend that you follow all current NEC and RVIA codes (or whatever is required in your own country), and take any warning shocks seriously.
jmsokol is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 11:31 AM   #92
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Great info, I'm glad Mike himself is now here to answer questions.

A few people here are still Missing a few points I have tried to make.

A wood house has no metal skin or chassis. All grounds are run as conductors back to your breaker box. You have one ground / neutral bond, then the homes ground rod or plate. Two hot 120 volt leads and one neutral connect the transformer to the home distribution panel (breaker Box) No ground wire between the transformer and the distribution panel.

The way my bus is built, there is NO CHANCE of anyone ever touching the metal skin, and a electrical appliance or switch, ect at the same time. I have minimum 4 inches of rigid Styrofoam between me and the skin. We are only running 220 volts, not 600.

My bus is built like a house, not a bus. Forget about the metal skin and chassis, as they are irreverent on this build.

The size of the ground cables installed here in residential homes are small. They will do nothing to protect against lightning.

I have seen what happens to a house when hit directly by lightning. It melted every conductor within the strike zone. The ground wires that didn't melt became hot and started secondary fires.

All electrical was damaged and had to be removed and replaced. No big deal as the house burned half way down anyway.

My practices are safe. I don't mess around. I have valid points.

I'm following all normal wiring practices for a residential home. I just refuse to bond ANY wiring to my metal skin / chassis.

I could not care less about codes for RV's, or campgrounds. Our buses are nothing like a conventional RV. My bus will likely never see a campground. I don't like crowded places.

Later on, if I feel that I made a error not connecting grounds to the chassis, I can always add a connection later.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 12:06 PM   #93
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
Great info, I'm glad Mike himself is now here to answer questions.

The way my bus is built, there is NO CHANCE of anyone ever touching the metal skin, and a electrical appliance or switch, ect at the same time. I have minimum 4 inches of rigid Styrofoam between me and the skin. We are only running 220 volts, not 600.

My bus is built like a house, not a bus. Forget about the metal skin and chassis, as they are irreverent on this build.
Nat
Nat, you should be aware that all metal structures in a house, including furnace ducting, water pipes, etc.... are all required to be bonded to the incoming electrical ground, simply because there's always the possibility of creating a ground fault to that structure. And in your instance it could be possible to electrify the skin of the Bus with nothing more than an extension cord pinched in a door. If that occurs then you will definitely create a hot skin condition. While that won't be dangerous to inside occupants, outside visitors are now at risk. Even when you're stepping in or out of the bus and touching the metal steps and wet earth at the same time, you and your family are at risk of electrocution. In fact, that's generally how RV electrocution victims are killed. This is exactly the same scenario of the chain link fence that electrocuted some high school students in a football field a short while ago. The fence was not properly bonded to the electrical service box (even though it appeared to be grounded) and it's possible that an extension cord with a cut in the insulation electrified the entire fence. But the study is still out on it. And yes, it was only 120 volts AC.

So lets clarify how much voltage is dangerous. The dangerous current levels are generally considered to be - 1mA, threshold of feeling. 5mA is a solid shock that should trip a GFCI. 10mA can be dangerous to those with a heart condition. 20mA is so much current that you can't let go of the energized wire or object. 30mA for more than a few seconds almost guarantees ventricular fibrillation that results in death. Now the human body varies in resistance depending on moisture, etc... but is around 1,500 ohms hand-to-hand or hand-to-foot. A little ohms law hints that just 40 volt AC across a 1,500 ohm load will get you into the 25 mA range, which is so much current that you can't let go, and could kill you if you don't get off of the wire in a few minutes. So I consider 40 to 50 volts AC to be potentially deadly if your hands are wet. If you run the same math with 120 volts you'll see that 120 volts / 1,500 ohms = 80 mA of current which is definitely an electrocution hazard with potential nerve damage in addition to stopping your heart.

My point is, if you're not prepared to do the electrical math and compare the medical industry shock/voltage tables, then you shouldn't be promoting your own viewpoint and opinion to others. There's nothing special about your bus. It really is an RV as far as the MVA and electrical codes are concerned. Plus I can (and have) set up full scale demonstrations showing why RV vehicle grounding is important to human safety. Again, this isn't my opinion, it's standard electrical engineering theory and practice as well as legal building and RV code.

However, I'll be glad to do a full scale presentation at any bus rally if someone will get a budget together to bring me out. I am a full time audio-electrical consultant/trainer and have day and travel rates. However, the RV industry doesn't seem to be interested in electrical safety for its members, only in selling more vehicles. But if some foundation has a budget for me to attend some rallies, then please put them in touch with me because I'm certainly interested in doing demonstrations.
jmsokol is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 12:19 PM   #94
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsokol View Post
My point is, if you're not prepared to do the electrical math and compare the medical industry shock/voltage tables, then you shouldn't be promoting your own viewpoint and opinion to others.

That's why your here. To clarify in detail right from wrong.

How many milivolts or current does it take to cause electrolysis to my skin and chassis?
This is one more reason I didn't want my electrical connected to the bus skin and chassis in any way.

Mike, you have me 98% convinced to bond my grounds to the buses metal skin / chassis.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 05:27 PM   #95
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
How many milivolts or current does it take to cause electrolysis to my skin and chassis?
Nat
While I'm familiar with Galvanic sacrificial anodes for boat and hot water heaters, I'm not sure of the mechanism you're concerned about for your Bus. Have you or someone you know experienced this type of corrosion? If so, can you provide any details of the circumstances? For instance, I know that the interconnecting point between a steel chassis and aluminum body can have galvanic breakdown, that's built into virtually every RV or bus with an aluminum body and a steel chassis. What and where does this corrosion seem to occur?
jmsokol is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 06:11 PM   #96
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
Mike, you have me 98% convinced to bond my grounds to the buses metal skin / chassis.

Nat
The thing to be aware of is you only want a single point of bonding the EGC (Equipment Grounding Conductor) to the frame. That allows no AC current to flow through the chassis under normal circumstances. Of course DC current from the house battery and starting systems are a different story. There's no getting around the fact that virtually all vehicles systems use the chassis as the 12-volt return path. I think those DC currents are doing to be magnitudes larger than AC leakage currents that could likely occur.

FYI: Here's a pretty good tutorial of just how galvanic action can occurs between aluminum and steel. Aluminium Corrosion Resistance - Aluminium Design
jmsokol is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 08:44 PM   #97
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,781
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Interesting points.. I had briefly thought about galvanic corrosion and sacrificial anodes, but decided it wouldn't be much of a concern for a bus that doesn't see significant inclement weather driving. Then again, it's potentially cheap protection.

Maybe all vehicles - not just boats - should have them.
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 08:48 PM   #98
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,781
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsokol View Post
The thing to be aware of is you only want a single point of bonding the EGC (Equipment Grounding Conductor) to the frame.
Is this to say that metal device boxes should be grounded by the wiring run, but not touching any of the bus metal? I have my chassis grounded at the buses electrical panel, but I know that at least one of my device boxes is in contact with the bus structure as well. Would this be considered having two bonding points?
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 08:58 PM   #99
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty View Post
Is this to say that metal device boxes should be grounded by the wiring run, but not touching any of the bus metal? I have my chassis grounded at the buses electrical panel, but I know that at least one of my device boxes is in contact with the bus structure as well. Would this be considered having two bonding points?
Yes, that's correct. In pro-sound systems double-bonding causes something called ground loop hum. And it can cause GFCI breakers to trip randomly. One way to correct that problem is to use isolated ground receptacles, and leave the metal boxes bonded to the metal of the bus. Now, I think that double-bonding ENG grounds would only add small amounts of circulating ground current under normal conditions that would require the addition of moisture to create corrosion. Still, it's one more thing to consider while troubleshooting grounding systems.
jmsokol is offline  
Old 03-22-2015, 09:13 PM   #100
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,781
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsokol View Post
Yes, that's correct. In pro-sound systems double-bonding causes something called ground loop hum. And it can cause GFCI breakers to trip randomly. One way to correct that problem is to use isolated ground receptacles, and leave the metal boxes bonded to the metal of the bus. Now, I think that double-bonding ENG grounds would only add small amounts of circulating ground current under normal conditions that would require the addition of moisture to create corrosion. Still, it's one more thing to consider while troubleshooting grounding systems.
Ok, cool.. I'll rectify the situation. The outlets are all GFCI protected and haven't tripped yet, but I'll fix it anyhow.

PS: do isolated ground receptacles all come in orange? White would be nice...
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bus Electrical Systems - DC Les Lampman Conversion Tutorials and How-to's 65 12-13-2016 06:49 AM
Leveling systems lornaschinske Conversion General Discussions 0 08-04-2012 11:42 AM
Electrical Systems noahyay Conversion General Discussions 11 07-29-2005 06:43 AM
Sewer Systems Steve Conversion Tutorials and How-to's 0 06-16-2004 01:31 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.