Ceiling: Framing & Electrical Rough-in

[DeMac]

I left off as I was out of gound terminations.


Here, I'm tapping a factory mounting hole with a multi-tap.


Drilled two more & tapped them too.


Three 10/32 machine screws holding the bus. NEVER use self tapping screws for Grounding or Bonding.

(250.8 ) Connection of Grounding and Bonding Equipment. (A)Permitted Methods
(2)Terminal Bars
(5) Machine screw-type fasteners that engage not less than two threads or are secured with a nut.

Either/Or, is okay:
If you cannot thread the holes, use nuts (torqued) on the back, then cut off the remaining threads. Lockwashers are allowed.

If possible, I do both. To avoid stripping the newly tapped holes, grip the screw head tightly while (hand)-torquing the nut.

We do this for a ground which has low resistance, low impedance, low ohms (ohms law) - not for the electricity police. We want the shortest path to ground located inside here. Not at our kids' or pets' feet.

[DeMac]

Switches & receptical, gfci protected from below.


This GFCI feeds the switches & receptacle above.


receptical & lighted switch on the front bulkhead to control the entry lighting. I'll be moving the switches once the doorframe is build (effin' Framer) they're safe for now.


Lighted switches are a good (or bad) option for all of the obvious reasons. I consider them required if the location is weird, like mine, just to find it in the dark.


This dedicated recept is being mounted directly to the steel. Once the Framer (me) completes this area, I'll move it to a wood surface and swap the plate.


The Big fan needed a new home, w/ power. It's previous home, the side door, is now a thoroughfare.


Last minute receptical for ceiling mounted fan. (Thank you, Steve).

[HamSkoolie]

I wasn't challenging and your work is awesome. I thought I made that clear with my opening line.
Nor was I challenging the NFPA or the NEC they're generally spot on though they're getting a bit ridiculous wanting AFI's in bedrooms.
On the other hand, we should remember, "code" is the BARE MINIMUM not necessarily the best way.


I was just pointing out that none of the NFPA stuff is LAW. State, county, or even city agencies with assumed authority can ADOPT it and THEY are the law. They can also ignore it and write their own..... even if it's totally messed up.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

I wasn't challenging and your work is awesome. I thought I made that clear with my opening line.
Nor was I challenging the NFPA or the NEC they're generally spot on though they're getting a bit ridiculous wanting AFI's in bedrooms.
On the other hand, we should remember, "code" is the BARE MINIMUM not necessarily the best way.


I was just pointing out that none of the NFPA stuff is LAW. State, county, or even city agencies with assumed authority can ADOPT it and THEY are the law. They can also ignore it and write their own..... even if it's totally messed up.

Above my pay grade. My goal is safety. Right or wrong. Staying alive. Not authority.

I always request a code reference from the inspector. I may pose my disagreement in a question form, our differences are often clarified, and altering an interpretation is possible. I welcome their guidance.

I also agree that the minimum is not always the best. Usually not. We should do better. The Electrical code book offers us the benchmark to meet or exceed.

[DeMac]

The fixtures chosen for temporary lighting are Plastico Keyless Lamp Sockets ($1.70 ea) will protect the wires from foam overspray & serve as site lighting until the end of construction.


One wirenut on the grounds. The wrapped-screw terminations are perfect for solid wires.


The boxes w/ solid pigtail joints utilize stranded wires as luminaries (pigtails) for temporary use & will likely be discarded, upon completing construction.


To wrap a screw with stranded wires requires patience, maybe practice.


Stranded Hook-making Tips (no pics)
Strip out more than you need using quality strippers, (stranded wire is usually the next size up of stripper hole). Carefully strip, so as not to cut any strands, just a couple short hairs will eff the hook up.

Trim the tips evenly using a very sharp wire cutter. I use my Klein needle nose or dikes on stranded.

Strip a second, small section of insulation (1/4") and slide it near the cut tips, not off. That's our retainer, for now.

Reverse the twist of the strands to counter clockwise. They are manufactured clockwise.

Make a clockwise J-hook, keep twisting counter-clockwise as you go. Then trim the tips evenly, again. The retainer will have likely fallen off.

Have handy:
Small needle nose plyers
Square shaft flathead
Philipshead
Dikes

Carefully hook the screw. Pinch the wires neatly with needle nose. Tighten slowly with philips.

Each time a strand sticks out, tuck it in with the needle nose or flat-head. The needle nose can help you pinch the loop. Once the screw is 'phillips-tight', switch to the large flathead and torque the screw. If the retainer hasn't already fallen off, remove it. Use dikes to cut/trim ALL excess strands.

Easier than it sounds but at least one device will frustrate new installers. (ie break-time)

[DeMac]

Wall mounted detector/alarm at the end of the hall.


When wall mounting a Smoke/CO detector/alarm, the top edge of device ought to be between 4"-12" from ceiling to properly function. NFPA 72



Alarms should be installed in all sleeping rooms & outside of each separate sleeping area (within 21ft of any door to a sleeping room)

On short skoolies, builders might install one centrally located alarm. On larger rigs, with divided sleeping areas, two would be better (nothing wrong with three).

For more details on alarm spacing & placement, please take a moment to review the link below.
Extractions from Model Code Requirements
(Kidde website)

[DeMac]

Utilizing temporary work lights & recepticals only, the temporary electrical is service provided by a two wire/120v (w/gnd) SOOW #10

Connected to panel via strain-relief fitting with plastic threaded bushing inside, cable secured with two 1/2" emt straps and attachment plug below.

The cable is protected by an exterior panel.

Verify that no onboard equiptment is cord connected, all breakers & switches are in the O-F-F position prior to connecting. Walk-thru the bus, safe off exposed live parts, place wirenuts on all joints, replace covers, etc...

Once cord connected, initialize Main breaker, then each branch circuit (one at a time), then each switch. Use a plug-in tester to test each recept. Discovered errors ought to repaired with the circuit switched off.

[DeMac]

Eight temporary lights are installed onto the permanent wire structure. Four individually switched zones.


Four GFCI protected personnel use receptacles. Two near the rig's center. Fore & aft bulkheads received one each.


It's never been so bright inside. Not even in the full sunlight. (Only 68 watts)

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by DeMac

Carefully hook the screw. Pinch the wires neatly with needle nose. Tighten slowly with philips.

Each time a strand sticks out, tuck it in with the needle nose or flat-head. The needle nose can help you pinch the loop. Once the screw is 'phillips-tight', switch to the large flathead and torque the screw. If the retainer hasn't already fallen off, remove it. Use dikes to cut/trim ALL excess strands.

Easier than it sounds but at least one device will frustrate new installers. (ie break-time)

I have always been under the impression that stranded wires were only to be used on screws designed for them, typically an embossed square washer or 'capture'. Crimp connectors

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Rwnielsen

I have always been under the impression that stranded wires were only to be used on screws designed for them, typically an embossed square washer or 'capture'. Crimp connectors

I haven't read that one (actually, I have read that in Specs, recepts on isolated xfmrs in hospital surgical units).

Do you have a chapter reference? Helps to narrow down my scope of thought, thereby provide a shorter answer. Also, you may know something's changed & I didn't get the memo (until you educate me).

Is it possible that you're thinking of Fine-Stranded wires? Such as those commonly used in PV systems & motors.

The 2017 NEC made changes to chapter six, which now requires flexible, fine-stranded cables be terminated only with terminal lugs, termination devices or connectors.
See NEC 690.31(F), 690.74 (A). Also 400.8

‐----------------------

Screw Terminal Connections (including wire-binding, set-screw, & splices to flexible leads) are covered in NEC 110.14, detailed instructions offered in exibit 110.3. Permitted for #10 wires & smaller.

---------------------

Terminals of the wire-binding screw, setscrew, or screw-actuated back-wired clamping types are suitable for use with both solid and stranded building wires.

Terminals of a receptacle are permitted for use with Listed field-installed crimped-on wire connectors or an assembly, if so identified by the manufacturer.

Info above found in the Guide Information for the product category Receptacles for Plugs and Attachment Plugs (RTRT) located on page 361 of the 2012 UL White Book

In some cases, elevators, motors, ranges, etc the wire will surely be #8 and larger. NEC 310.106(C) Requires that raceway installed conductors #8 & larger to be stranded, For these connections, we would typically use a set screw type fitting or terminal lug (or crimp-on).

The NEMA bulletin below outlines Fine Stranded Conductor Terminations

**I'm old school, if ammendments were made, please update me.**

[Rwnielsen]

I snooped around and found on Mike Holt's forum (famous electrician, I guess) that your method is fairly common and there are quite a few, like me, who think the termination point needs to be spec'd for stranded wire...pressure plate, capture or... Personally I use crimp connectors with the correct crimper. Most of the work I do involves terminal straps, relay sockets and PC boards, which are all set up for stranded wire. I do occasionally come across twisted wiring on a device and, up until today, thought that was illegal. Live and learn.
I'm not fond of insulated crimp connectors although I use them at work along with Allied ratcheting crimpers.

[Bus'n it]

Mike Holt is the shizzle for when I need info as a contractor. DeMac, that interior is looking really professional. I wouldn't worry too much about stranded, solid, Romex, Boat wire.... It's not going to fail if you make your connections tight and limit splices to wherever receptacles are. (splices not hidden behind panels) For years I have heard the debate on stranded Vs solid. My newell coach and all subsequent ones have been wired with standard Romex wiring. When I disassembled the interior, I was amazed that they just used crimp connectors matching stranded with solid. It lasted for 30 years aside from three connections that had signs of burning. Two were stranded heater circuits that were branched off a solid romex where they stripped the insulation from the solid and wrapped the stranded heater branch circuit off and taped it calling it good. Heck , it lasted! I went in and soldered everything that had a wire nut, clip, crimp or tape. Solder is your friend!

[DeMac]

Thanks, Rwnielsen & Bus'n it.
I agree with you both, on both subjects.

I owe much of my Electrical knowledge to Mike Holt & Tom Henry. I've spent countless hours reading & watching their videos.

Also, stranded wire joints require additional diligence. Crimp, solder. Making strong joints & protecting conductors from physical damage.

[DeMac]

Both ends of Tie-wire locked into drill chuck. (approx 10ft looped)


Step in the trigger while pinching the pool, use plyers, I use fingers. (risky)


Field completed cable strap, J-hook bent to cable diameter.


Tie-wire is used to 'lash' or 'fuse' the cable to the horizontal brace (Caddy TSGB1624).


Tie-wire is used to lash or fuse the cable to the horizontal brace (Caddy TSGB1624).


Mounting-head cable-ties are used to secure the cable over the top of the rafter, aligning them for curving down into the bay.

[musigenesis]

Damn DeMac, your work makes me realize how inadequate my plans for the electrical on my bus are.

[rossvtaylor]

Very nice, DeMac! Your attention to detail and the use of quality parts will keep you problem-free for decades. My only suggestion...if I may humbly make one...is to ditch the wire nuts for either Wago (my favorite) or the Ideal brand "In-sure" connectors. If you're committed to wire nuts, it might be wise to overwrap them with electrical tape...wrapped in the direction that would tend to keep them from loosening...which, looking at the top of the wire nut head would be clockwise. I switched to the Wago or Ideal connectors several years ago and love them.

EDIT to add a note: I admit that your work...and all of your input to the forum...is so good that I'm really hesitant to even make a suggestion! Please know that I admire you.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

Very nice, DeMac! Your attention to detail and the use of quality parts will keep you problem-free for decades. My only suggestion...if I may humbly make one...is to ditch the wire nuts for either Wago (my favorite) or the Ideal brand "In-sure" connectors. If you're committed to wire nuts, it might be wise to overwrap them with electrical tape...wrapped in the direction that would tend to keep them from loosening...which, looking at the top of the wire nut head would be clockwise. I switched to the Wago or Ideal connectors several years ago and love them.

EDIT to add a note: I admit that your work...and all of your input to the forum...is so good that I'm really hesitant to even make a suggestion! Please know that I admire you.

-----------

Thank you, Sir. Praise from the RossVTaylor camp means a great deal to me. I'm humbled.

Ross, I absolutely agree. Ditch the twist-ons and upgrade to vibration resistant terminations.

I intend to do just that.


The temporary lights (currently installed) will be removed after insulating the ceiling. The wire nuts in place are temporarily protecting the twisted copper & personnel (me) during construction.


Permanent terminations will be installed when installing the permanent fixtures & devices. The el cheapo nuts will be sh!t-canned. Not a fan of reusing those.

Ross, Simon, Rwnielsen, Kazetsukai, Jolly Roger223, DeMac....
We can't stress enough, the importance of completing electrical circuits with low resistance terminations. Builders ought to be spendy with this part.

Terminations are the primary reason I chose solid wire over stranded wire. As Rwnielsen & Bus'n-it discussed a few posts back, stranded wire terminations are easily completed incorrectly. I've practiced for over a quarter of a century & I still pull on every stranded joint I make, then occasionally, remake the joint.

It's best to avoid joints, whenever possible. All of my devices are screw-wrap terminated using solid wire, no crimp-on tip. Only the grounds are pigtailed, very few neutrals.

For the already twisted gnd pigtails, I'll likely use Ideal Crimp Sleeves & Wrap-Caps. I have some old, new-stock & appropriate crimp dies.
(See next post)

Most skoolie builders should use a simple secure 'locking' connection. Especially when using stranded or just to be safe.
(See next post)

*Note: Fine Stranded applications ought to use only terminals listed specifically for fine stranded wire

[DeMac]

(Sounds like one of those new fangled TikTok dances)


These are the Lever Lock Wagos described by both Twepterzod & RossVTaylor. Great product, secure connection. stranded, solid.

Wagos, Series & Sizes


Wago 221 lever lock, 40%smaller exterior than 222
Rating printed on the side
300v, 20A - 30A
#12-#28 wire
$.30-.60 cents each


Wago 222 lever-lock
Rating embossed on the side.
300v 20A - 30A
#10-#28 wire
$.50-.80 cents each

Ideal makes a similar product


Ideal In-Sure, 24A rated
#12 wire max
...and...
Ideal Gen II
Rated up to 450v, (34A *why?)
#12 wire max*
$.50 - .80 cent each

Push-In connectors, Not Lever Locks

Produced by Ideal, Wago, others
$0.00 No Sale, I Do Not Use These.



I am a big fan a set screw connectors, in general.

HVAC, motors, AL wire...

Ideal Alumiconn wire terminals
#10 - #18, 300v
$3 - $8 each

When there's no other choice...

Polaris, 14g-1/0 larger sizes available
$15 and up (mostly up)

Used in motors, hv lighting, solid brass, reusable.

Ideal Model 22
#10-#20 wire, 600v
$1 - 2 each

Insulated crimp-on


Ideal & Gardner-Bender,
Zinc coated Copper, Nylon wrap
#10 - #24 available
$0.01 - 0.10 cents each

Old School, zinc-plated steel, Cu


Ideal Crimp-Sleeve
600-Volt, #8-#18, #4-#14
$0.12 - 0.22 cents each

Temporary Use

Twist-on wire nuts
#6-#24, various sizes
600v Rated
$0.02 - 0.16 cent

Soldering Kit

Simple to learn
$30, Harbor Freight

The market is flush with counterfeit and imitations. Buy from reliable sources, verify the specs (amp, volt, temp ratings).

[Rwnielsen]

Forgive me if I missed it but, those porcelain (keyless) fixtures are just temporary? I can't see you going down the road with 60w frosted incandescent. It really doesn't fit your theme.

[DeMac]

Yes, temporary.
The plastic sockets serve as expendable site lighting until we begin installing finished ceiling material.

The stranded pigtails & keyless sockets will be replaced with permanent terminations & fixtures after trimming out the ceiling.

I'll likely install 3" MaxLite Retrofit/Light Engines with custom or modified trims.


They are dimmable, do not require a driver & operate at 120v line voltage. 800 lumens


*Fun Fact:
MaxLite light engines are wholesaled to light fixture manufacturers. Providing the 'led guts' to various brand names.