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03-17-2019, 06:59 PM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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Collins Chair Rail Recommendations
My 2003 Collins has what seems like the standard chair rail made out of something similar to unistrut. It is riveted to the side wall. The panel below the rail is one with the floor and side walls (or is welded to them at a minimum) - there's no real way to get behind it without cutting a hole in it. The upper panel is fixed with the same rivets that hold the chair rail on the bottom, but regular Torx screws on the top.
The question comes as to what to do with the upper panel as far as insulation. I was originally going to remove it and put board insulation in its place. However, it's only a 1" cavity behind it, I can't insulate behind the lower panel (and so will have to insulate in front of it), and the chair rail seems beefy enough that as many people say, it may be helping the wall structure to a degree.
Does it make sense to remove the chair rail and upper panel so I can better insulate? If the rail is best left in place, how about running some sheet metal shears near the bottom? On the flip side, I'm now thinking it may just be best to leave the panels in place and just put 1" foam board over them. I'm not living in the bus, just taking vacations in it, and don't plan to be in extreme cold (but possibly high heat).
Thoughts? Thanks!
Chris
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03-26-2019, 11:10 AM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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Any thoughts on this? Every time I go into the bus, I change my mind if I want to remove the rail or not. It adds rigidity, but is not structural like so many other buses, it seems.
Thanks,
Chris
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03-26-2019, 09:38 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Crystal River FL
Posts: 39
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Collins
Chassis: Ford
Engine: 7.3
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I plan to remove mine to make framing the walls easier. I agree with you in that I don't think it is structural in any significant way. The potential problem with not removing the panels could be hidden rust?
__________________
Alex
2003 Collins E450 6 window. 7.3 auto
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03-27-2019, 01:17 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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Thanks for the comments! I'll post back when I decide what to do, but I agree they're not structural, but probably add rigidity. Then again, the walls will do the same, even if to a somewhat lesser degree.
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03-27-2019, 01:34 PM
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#5
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 335
Year: 2004
Coachwork: Corbeil
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Ford PowerStroke Diesel 6.0
Rated Cap: GVWR 11,500
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I had an integrated chair rail in my bus and chose to remove it. I am planning to try to make up some of the lost strength/rigidity in my build. My plan is to run stringers along the outside of the bus at the same height as the rigid foam insulation. I will drill a hole through the stringers and into the ribs. Then I'm going to tap the holes and use bolts and washers in order to secure the stringers to the ribs. When I screw down the plywood to the stringers I should end up with a very sturdy structure that ties the sides together in a nice, solid way. I included a sketch of my plan, in case it's unclear from the description.
EDIT:
Just realized I labeled the space between the ribs as the 2x4 stringer and not the actual stringer. Hopefully it still makes sense.
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03-27-2019, 02:02 PM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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Interesting idea. It'd be good to see how that plays out.
That said, in retrospect, doesn't the rub rail basically do the same thing - act like a stringer to add rigidity to the side walls? On my bus the lower one is basically at the same height as the chair rail.
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03-27-2019, 02:06 PM
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#7
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Almost There
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 95
Year: 2006
Coachwork: Collins
Chassis: Chevrolet Express 3500
Engine: Duramax
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I plan to eventually remove all of those interior panels to enable spray foam throughout. I know removing that rail and the lower panel will be a decent amount of work, but I'd prefer to maximize the insulation.
I think for most people it probably wouldn't be worth the effort if you're not expecting extreme temps. Toss some Buskote or the like on the roof and use lighter colors elsewhere should make it passable in the summer.
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03-09-2024, 01:20 PM
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#8
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Saco, Maine
Posts: 32
Year: 2011
Coachwork: Collins
Chassis: Chevy Express 3500 cutaway
Engine: 6.0L LS
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Did you end up removing these and if so what was you method? I also have a Collins and I’m really struggling to remove them.
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03-09-2024, 01:58 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 2,988
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
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dont know exactly what your chair rail is?
my 04 collins body it is unistrut welded to the ribs.
if you want it gone then a grinder some safety glasses maybe gloves and its gone.
for me insulation in the walls and build past it.
mine was 1" foam board to fill the gap and 1/2" to fur the the wall out to clear the unistrut. i could say no real science. but i have been in commercial industrial construction for 30 years as a pipefitter welder.
grinder with the proper safety gear for you to be comfortable with what you are doing.
use the side handle. if not both hands on the grinder period if it binding or feels like it wants run away then it is telling you that you changed course from where you started.
dont force it this is one of the tools that you let do its job and keep both hands on it. safety glasses if not a faceshield is a must. and if you buy a grinder i push for one with a deadman switch.
one that requires two functions to enable the grinder and it shuts off the second you take your hand off of the trigger.
they still make them that are just a switch that is off or on.
if you get one of those do not twist the extension and grinder cord together because if you lose grip of the grinder and its not tied together it will unplug itself and shut off twisted together it will go wherever it wants and not shutoff until you un plug it or put your hands on it to turn it off.
sorry for the safety lesson if you already know?
but asking how to remove a chair rail on a bus without pictures of your chair rail on your bus is only going to get a responce of how i did mine.
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03-10-2024, 03:08 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Tx.
Posts: 1,990
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E HT 250HP - Md3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdrew93
Did you end up removing these and if so what was you method? I also have a Collins and I’m really struggling to remove them.
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Chair rails are considered to be a structural component of a bus body. they help keep the bottom portions of the ribs tied together sharing any load stress that is applied to the twisting forces pf the body. It also helps keep the bottom panels from flapping like a set of wings.
You can still shoot spray foam down inbetween you exterior walls and the chair rail structure without removing the chair rails.
It is not advisable to remove them...
There has been several discussions on this topic and quite a few "Factory" videos showing how a school bus is assembled and how the parts are tied together to make it one solid structure.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/i...val-40640.html
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03-11-2024, 11:36 AM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdrew93
Did you end up removing these and if so what was you method? I also have a Collins and I’m really struggling to remove them.
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I ended up leaving mine in and building around them. They're exactly 1" deep, and so 1" sheet foam goes in below them perfectly.
Chris
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