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Old 01-18-2020, 09:02 PM   #1
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Exclamation Flooring Woes: Conventional Advice Not Working?

Hey all, I've been a lurker for over a year now, taking notes and tidbits from different forums, trying to get ready for the day that it was finally time to start my build. Thank you to this entire community!!

MY DAY HAS COME!! I've finally got my bus, and we've gotten the seats and most of the interior panels removed. We did our Ospho, then rustoleum layer, and then it was time to fill those seat bolt holes. Lots of people just advise us newbies to "just read the forums," but there are TONS of different methods and conflicting advice for every step of the skoolie build. Lots of people do the penny method, but there are also professionals out there saying that is a huge no-no. I decided to just try a layer of caulk. I got Goof-off brand marine grade silicone sealant. Non-shrinking, flexible, what could go wrong? I put it down and as it cured, it pulled the rustoleum layer up off the floor with it. So then there was a layer of exposed metal underneath. Bummer. Maybe since it's still sealed by the silicone, it'll be fine? Within a week it turned yellow underneath the silicone. Is this rust? It can't be good. (pictures below) I was planning on using this same stuff to seal where the floor and wall meet. Bad idea to try it again?

We scraped some of these up and decided to follow another tip and use JB Weld. Put a nickel sized piece in/around the holes, and I thought it would be done. A week later one of them just popped out as we were sweeping the floor. Wwwwhwwhwwwhat?? (Pictures below)

Anyone had these methods not work? Any other suggestions??

Next attempt might be to try some "automotive seam sealer." Flash tape on top of that? If pennies have worked for others, then that may be final solution. I'm just bummed that 2 different methods didn't work out.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:19 PM   #2
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I.just painted the holes with primer, put metal tape over it, and painted with rustoleum
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:40 PM   #3
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What’s wrong with a penny? Worried about galvanic action? I wouldn’t be, especially after the paint and adhesive you use to stick it down being the middle of the dissimilar sandwich. Alternatively you could get a linoleum tile and cut it into 1” squares and use that.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:33 AM   #4
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Is that JB Weld SteelStik? I used that to fill holes in the sides of my windows that I had to drill in order to remove riveted stops (it's a New York bus thing), and I found that the stuff will absolutely not stick in a hole unless you push it in and tamp it down on both sides, effectively making a rivet out of it. You then have to paint it on both sides (or perhaps just one side - I did both) to ensure watertightness. So probably not the best thing to use for these holes.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:32 AM   #5
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I got a couple of boxes of rivets and washers and sandwiched two washers with a rivet to close the holes. It work well. One person had to get under the bus and hold the bottom rivet while the person in the bus bond them together with the rivet gun.

It was probably about $35. worth of washers and rivets and took a couple of hours.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
What’s wrong with a penny? Worried about galvanic action?
My understanding is that zinc is just not a great metal to be considered for long term durability.

From BrewerBob-
WWII pennies were steel coated in zinc. In between they were 100% copper. Now they are copper clad ZINC. Zinc is used in shipping as a sacrficial metal. Zinc is used in pennies because it's cheap. Neither of which you want on a bus.

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Is that JB Weld SteelStik?
Yes! I was thinking the same about using it like a rivet and mashing it from both sides. Since it won't bond to the floor, I'd rather not risk continuing with it.

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I got a couple of boxes of rivets and washers and sandwiched two washers with a rivet to close the holes. It work well. One person had to get under the bus and hold the bottom rivet while the person in the bus bond them together with the rivet gun.

It was probably about $35. worth of washers and rivets and took a couple of hours.
Did you use any epoxy to sammich it in for a water tight seal? I'm guessing you obviously need a rivet gun on top of the above listed supplies?
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:11 PM   #7
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You know the galvanizing on the bus floor is zinc, right? The pennies will outlast the bus.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:26 AM   #8
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Did you rinse the ospho thoroughly off with water before painting & get the surface bone-dry? Did you degrease as well? Is the paint you used suitable for galvanized steel? Inadequate surface prep is the most likely reason you're not getting good paint adhesion.

Also, your paint was possibly not fully cured yet, and while it's very difficult to see in the pictures, it looks like it was put on too thick if that is just one coat (I could be completely wrong about that last part - no way to really tell from those pics - just a suspicion). But if that is the case, that would be another possible cause of poor adhesion / slow curing.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:35 AM   #9
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Silicone is hydroscopic, meaning it attracts and hold moisture. Use uranthene based sealants , or butyl rubber based sealants.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:59 AM   #10
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3M - 08368 - Urethane Seam Sealer, White, 310mL Cartridge - 60455054639


This stuff ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Old 01-20-2020, 11:12 AM   #11
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Standard Rustoleum in particular takes like a month to cure, despite what the label says. I did a bunch of painting experiments with Rusto and sheet metal last summer and I couldn't really get anything to adhere very well no matter what I did. Took a look at them a month later and by that point the paint was adhering very well.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Yes! I was thinking the same about using it like a rivet and mashing it from both sides. Since it won't bond to the floor, I'd rather not risk continuing with it.

Did you use any epoxy to sammich it in for a water tight seal? I'm guessing you obviously need a rivet gun on top of the above listed supplies?
I didn't use epoxy, I live in a dry climate and mostly drive my bus on dirt roads. My main concern was dust coming thru the floor.

The washers do form a tight sandwich epoxy would probably make it a tighter seal in places the floor might not be perfectly flat. If you plan on driving a lot of wet roads I would be good to make sure the holes by the wheels wells are good and sealed.

I used a rivet gun. I have used a rivet gun a lot on my bus, it has become a very useful tool.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:57 PM   #13
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You know the galvanizing on the bus floor is zinc, right? The pennies will outlast the bus.
I don't know anything about anything. Hence my frustration at trying to find a consensus on any subject in these forums. The more hours I spend reading, the more different options and conflicting information I get. For example, I deleted my back heater & pump because EVERY thread I found said "go ahead" "no problem", but when I looped my lines, I lost heat to the front heater & defrost as well. My only guess at this point is that the pump that was deleted was the only thing circulating the coolant.

Quote:
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Did you rinse the ospho thoroughly off with water before painting & get the surface bone-dry? Did you degrease as well? Is the paint you used suitable for galvanized steel?
We didn't pressure wash after ospho, but we did clean it with soap & water, then acetone. I just used standard rustoleum. 2 coats.

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Silicone is hydroscopic, meaning it attracts and hold moisture. Use uranthene based sealants , or butyl rubber based sealants.
I misspoke when I said silicone, I took a second look at the tube, and it doesn't say silicone on it. I attached a picture of it below.

On that note, let's say I use this seam sealer to caulk where the floor meets the wall. I've noticed moisture (condensation) that runs down the skin of the bus to the outermost cavity (where the stock wall insulation was) and sits in there. Should I be redirecting that to go elsewhere? Like outside? Seems like water sitting in there for long periods would be no bueno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Standard Rustoleum in particular takes like a month to cure, despite what the label says.
Yaaaa, it says dry in a day. I gave it 3 to be safe. Looking back now, I can definitely tell a difference a few weeks later. Because we were walking on it before it was fully cured, and because it came up under the goof-off stuff, we're probably going to have to go back to square one and redo the paint because it looks like **** now. Wait, you can't say ****? Neat. Well it looks like excrement.
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:49 PM   #14
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I'm not a professional painter, but every time I've painted anything it turned out great - at least in terms of performance if not appearance - & I credit that result to two things: 1) proper prep, and reading/following the manufacturers documentation. IMO it's usually the last bit that gets people, even when they do the first bit right (although w/o reading the TDS, how do you know what proper prep is?)

For example, there's no such thing as 'standard' Rustoleum (or any other paint, for that matter). Rustoleum in particular manufacturers a great variety of paints that differ significantly both within general product categories (enamel, acrylic, water-based, oil-based, etc), and within them. But if you look up the technical data sheet of what you're probably referring to - and what I know many people on this forum use & suggest - it says right there on page 2 of the TDS for Rustoleum's K7769 rusty metal primer to NOT use it on galvanized metal:

https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/Di...llons_TDS.ashx

Personally, I strive to read the TDS of every adhesive, primer, or paint system we use, & follow it to the letter. No-one knows more about their products or has more interest in them working properly than the manufacturer. Not doing so is asking for trouble, IMO.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Anyone had these methods not work? Any other suggestions??

Next attempt might be to try some "automotive seam sealer." Flash tape on top of that? If pennies have worked for others, then that may be final solution. I'm just bummed that 2 different methods didn't work out.
We used the black windshield sealer from AutoZone. Seemed to stick pretty well the Rustoleum we had on the floor.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:41 PM   #16
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I used closed-end rivets, with a dab of Dicor applied in each hole before inserting the rivet. It certainly wasn't the cheapest method, considering I had about 350 holes in my floor (wheelchair bus), but it seems to have worked well. I used Corroseal before installing the rivets to convert and "seal" the rust areas, then rivets, then Rustoleum primer and finally two coats of Rustoleum Gray paint. It sat that way for quite a while before finally getting back to working on the subfloor, and it's held up very well so far.
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:53 PM   #17
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For example, there's no such thing as 'standard' Rustoleum (or any other paint, for that matter). Rustoleum in particular manufacturers a great variety of paints that differ significantly both within general product categories (enamel, acrylic, water-based, oil-based, etc), and within them. But if you look up the technical data sheet of what you're probably referring to - and what I know many people on this forum use & suggest - it says right there on page 2 of the TDS for Rustoleum's K7769 rusty metal primer to NOT use it on galvanized metal:

That's good to know! I wish I had seen that advice before. We used rustoleum's regular oil based enamel paint. Not the rustoleum rust converter stuff. Do you know if there's a way to test whether a metal is galvanized or not? Or how to assess what type of metal we're working with?
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Anon Ent Titty View Post
That's good to know! I wish I had seen that advice before. We used rustoleum's regular oil based enamel paint. Not the rustoleum rust converter stuff. Do you know if there's a way to test whether a metal is galvanized or not? Or how to assess what type of metal we're working with?
Usually you can tell if metal has been galvanized by variations in the color of the metal. By galvanizing metal it makes it appear to have a crystalline appearance. The best I can think as an example is chain link fence posts.

Also another way is the presence of rust. Galvanizing is just a surface layer, but it keeps metal from rusting way longer than normal untreated metal. So untreated metal of a school bus floor would rust out very quick, especially in those states that use salt on the roads.
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:31 PM   #19
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And I haven't done mine yet, but I think deleting the booster pump only works for front engine buses. On the pusher buses, you may need it to get the coolant all the way to the front for the defrost.

I've heard they cause problems, and on my bus, I got the maintenance records from when the bus was bought until it was decommissioned. Looks like they had 2 different problems with the booster pump leaking, and replaced it once. I'm going to try to leave it in, and wire it to turn on when the defrost is on. Hopefully it doesn't cause any issues.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon Ent Titty View Post
That's good to know! I wish I had seen that advice before. We used rustoleum's regular oil based enamel paint. Not the rustoleum rust converter stuff. Do you know if there's a way to test whether a metal is galvanized or not? Or how to assess what type of metal we're working with?

Just to be clear, I'm going off what Rustoleum says in their documentation, not what other people have experienced. I personally will not use any paint product that says right in the TDS it's not suitable for the material I plan painting it with. However, there are people here who have used it successfully. Seems most everyone does what is specified as recommended prep with other similar paints from other manufacturers... degrease, sand, etch with phosphoric acid, rinse, dry, then paint. Your post inspired a thread I started where there is a lot of great input. For your reading pleasure if you haven't already seen it:


http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/ru...tal-30092.html
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