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09-28-2021, 02:01 PM
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#1
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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Removing solid (buck) rivets from a bus
Hi all,
As part of the continuing documentation of our most recent roof raise, I made a video on how to remove solid rivets from the skin and framing of a bus.
I hope this is of some help to anyone working on a roof raise or removing rub rails.
Pleasant travels!
Ross and Kara
https://youtu.be/BEk5sSI6mAE
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09-28-2021, 03:40 PM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Western MT
Posts: 629
Year: 1990
Chassis: Crown Supercoach
Engine: Detroit 6-71TA, 10 sp.
Rated Cap: 90 (40')
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I'm loving these videos. You do a very good job of explaining the how and the why. Thanks for taking the time to teach and share.
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09-28-2021, 03:46 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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well done, very informative
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09-28-2021, 10:28 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Drilling is better but for bus work this will suffice and is probably a lot easier as long as there is access.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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09-28-2021, 10:50 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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In what way is just drilling better?
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09-29-2021, 01:03 PM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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I've tried a handful of methods and combinations.
Drilling is great if you are worried about the surrounding steel. No gouging and minimal risk of slipping and scratching the paint. I prefer to drill only through the head, then knocking off the head with a light swing of a hammer and chisel. If you drill through the whole rivet there is a great risk of enlarging the original hole.
An angle grinder is definitely my preferred way for getting it done quickly. Using flap-discs will result in less damage to the surrounding steel. I personally don't like using an actual grinding disc because of the possibility of deep gouges.
Either way, you'll need to punch the remaining piece of rivet out.
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09-29-2021, 01:04 PM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Buck rivet
Or solid rivet??
I prefer a rivet removal tool, from the outside.
Basically a drill bit with a retracting collar that keeps the drill bit on center of head.
Drill depth of head, it falls off, use punch to knock body out the other side.
No damage to sheet metal inside or out.
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09-29-2021, 01:05 PM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleO7
Buck rivet
Or solid rivet??
I prefer a rivet removal tool, from the outside.
Basically a drill bit with a retracting collar that keeps the drill bit on center of head.
Drill depth of head, it falls off, use punch to knock body out the other side.
No damage to sheet metal inside or out.
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Truly, this is the best way if you have access to the tool. Can't say as I've ever used one, but they look slick!
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09-29-2021, 01:32 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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I definitely drill (or grind, then drill) when I need to remove a rivet from the outside. And everyone has their favorite method. But if you've removed the interior skin, as we do for a roof raise, it's hard to beat the method I used in the video...it's faster than drilling and there's no chance of slipping or causing any damage to the exterior rub rail. I'd say it more than "suffices" ...but there are lots of methods and our goal is to show what we've found works for us.
I'm always open to learning new techniques, though, and I find that I modify my practices with each job because I'm always refining the process. Continuous process improvement, right? Mostly, I learn from mistakes and doing things the hard way...which I've done lots of. Haha!
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09-29-2021, 05:11 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Having done both automotive and aviation maintenance (professionally) for over 3 decades I've seen all manner of methods used.
In aviation we only EVER drilled the rivet head. We didn't use special bits or tools, just a drill and a bit of the proper diameter. Drill the head and when its through the head will start spinning on the bit. Tap the rivet shaft through and you're done. It does take a bit of finesse but it's not a hard skill to acquire on ones own.
In the very few aviation applications where blind rivets were being removed it got real complicated as you just cant have bits of pieces floating around inside an airframe looking for a flight control or moving component.
In automotive there's a lot more leeway as tolerances are larger and the operational environment is far less extreme. So the grinding from the inside is a viable option. Grinding on the outside would also be fine but is likely to leave marks that aren't "purty".
We're working on buses....what works for you and with your available tools? That works.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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09-29-2021, 05:57 PM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie
We're working on buses....what works for you and with your available tools? That works.
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Nicely put. The technique I'd discuss here is much different from the one I'd discuss over on the Mooney forum. This is a bus. Just do it.
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09-29-2021, 06:15 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor
Nicely put. The technique I'd discuss here is much different from the one I'd discuss over on the Mooney forum. This is a bus. Just do it.
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Yeah those Mooney guys can get rather picky. Almost as bad as an F18 quality assurance inspector (my job for several years).
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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09-30-2021, 12:22 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie
Having done both automotive and aviation maintenance (professionally) for over 3 decades I've seen all manner of methods used.
In aviation we only EVER drilled the rivet head. We didn't use special bits or tools, just a drill and a bit of the proper diameter. Drill the head and when its through the head will start spinning on the bit.
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Actually any size drill bit will work as long as it's bigger than the rivet shaft, does not need to be "proper diameter".
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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09-30-2021, 02:05 PM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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The proper diameter obviously means a range.
There is "too small", and also "too big", the proper size would mean everything else.
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10-05-2021, 10:11 AM
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#15
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New Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 3
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These are all great. I am only adding this because it's the only method I didn't see mentioned. It's the one we use to replace cross members and skin on reefer trailers. A quality air hammer and a chisel bit will take the head off a aluminum buck rivet in 2 seconds flat. It's best from the inside. Just another option if you are not too worried about paint.
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10-05-2021, 09:35 PM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 1,036
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
Actually any size drill bit will work as long as it's bigger than the rivet shaft, does not need to be "proper diameter".
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In aircraft work the proper diameter bit and technique is critical. Ovalized holes can cause catastrophic damage. There is a "correct" way to do the work when huge sums of money and/or lives are at risk. In the bus scenario, especially when you are not replacing the rivets/skin and the bus is not doing hundreds or thousands of mph and/or becoming a vibrating metal fatigue machine, not a big deal.
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10-06-2021, 12:47 AM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidharris
In aircraft work the proper diameter bit and technique is critical. Ovalized holes can cause catastrophic damage. There is a "correct" way to do the work when huge sums of money and/or lives are at risk. In the bus scenario, especially when you are not replacing the rivets/skin and the bus is not doing hundreds or thousands of mph and/or becoming a vibrating metal fatigue machine, not a big deal.
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I thought we were building Skoolies, not fighter jets.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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10-06-2021, 12:49 AM
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#18
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 1,036
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor
Hi all,
As part of the continuing documentation of our most recent roof raise, I made a video on how to remove solid rivets from the skin and framing of a bus.
I hope this is of some help to anyone working on a roof raise or removing rub rails.
Pleasant travels!
Ross and Kara
https://youtu.be/BEk5sSI6mAE
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Good videos, watched most of them. I like the tutorial style, looking forward to more on the roof raise.
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10-06-2021, 12:59 AM
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#19
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 1,036
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
I thought we were building Skoolies, not fighter jets.
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We are, but your vague comment of any size bit will do is not very helpful to any one trying to learn, so I was trying to let novices understand where some of the commenters, like HamSchoolie, were coming from. There is such a thing as correct not just easier/faster. I thought that would be obvious from my comment.
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10-06-2021, 01:34 AM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Correct enough for this context.
Of course aerospace - and marine standards too - are much stricter but are (mostly) not relevant here.
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