The Ten Skoolie Commandments

[Jimot]

P.S started studying for CDL to get the knowledge.

[Chupa]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Then what was THIS about?

Defend the right to be a jerk? Made-up rules? Sure seems like it was being painted that way.

You didn't? Put the shoe on the other foot for a minute and think about how you'd read all that.

Sorry, I should have said “in my original post“. Even my second post I wasn’t arguing, just pointing out that I do my best to answer these questions, too.

Wasn’t wasn’t until kazetsukai’s post that you quoted above that I started being argumentative. So in that regard, you’re right. That one was me poking back.

Again, my first post was not pointed at you when I said we shouldn’t be a jerk to people who ask “dumb” or “repetitive” questions. If it came across like it was then I get it, and I apologize. Anybody who wants to fight because they think I was attacking you, that was not my intention. That said I still stand by what I was *attempting* to communicate the first time. There’s a lot of things people SHOULD do but in reality a lot of folks don’t - so question is is it helpful to be mean to the people who don’t? I don’t think it is.

[kazetsukai]

First and foremost, as this is most important: The "commandments" sum up the behaviors needed to be successful at doing a bus conversion. They don't exist to control people or set arbitrary boundaries.



As for how "made up" these "rules" are, senior members already follow them because they know it is within their best interest to do so- to do their research, to not buy rusty, to be informed and know what one is getting into. You tell me what good outcomes you're going to get from breaking these- I'll say it again that anyone who does so either gets really lucky or really unlucky.

Originally Posted by Chupa

Listen, kazetsukai, if you guys want to defend the right to be a jerk to people who don’t follow your made-up rules, it’s a free country.

This is at a worst a caricature of my response, at best a gross misinterpretation. "Defend the right to be a jerk"? Where did I do or even suggest that?


I'll ask again: Why not simply a commandment "Thou shalt not be a jerk" instead of " Thou shall not be a jerk to people who asked questions and didn’t follow the other Commandments."


I already know the answer:

Originally Posted by Chupa

I’m just saying there are other options like: you can keep scrolling and ignore them, or you can point things out in a civil manner. You don’t have to be a jerk. Anybody who wants to argue for the case to be a jerk knock yourself out

You're more interested in policing the senior members of the forum and those that come to assist in some way than you are the people whom these specifically target. You want to find jerk behavior? Look no further than your reply to me... which I bet is totally fine for you, I'm not some newbie you think you're benevolently shielding from any and all criticism.

[Mercuric Mind]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

I – Thou shalt not jump in feet-first without doing thy research.

II – Thou shalt have a realistic budget, and thou shalt not overpay.

III – Thou shalt know what thee is buying.

IV – Thou shalt not take thy seller's word as gold.

V – Thou shalt not buy sight unseen without a pre-purchase inspection.

VI – Thou shalt not buy diesels newer than 2007, nor shalt thou treat diesel engines as gasoline.

VII – Thou shalt study thine Commercial Driver's Manual, and take thy skoolie's weight, height and length seriously.

VIII – Thou shalt plan thy conversion carefully before beginning, and thou shalt seek help if necessary.

IX – Thou shalt not wontonly cut wiring, disable safety devices, or remove anything without consulting skoolie.net or professionals.

X – Thou shalt not scrap anything removed until it is proven unnecessary.

This is a great post!!! Thank you CW!
It very neatly sums up the best advice for us newbies before and shortly after getting into skoolies. I think lots of folks have unrealistic expectations, of the time required the extent and complexity of converting a school bus into an RV, from the EEU-Tubes. Usually it involves more than painting it and throwing in a couch.

Thank you Cheese Wagon

[peteg59]

Sometimes it is best to let the "Negative Nellies" comments roll off one's back like water off the back of a duck.

These 10 commandments are certainly invaluable for the newbies and less mechanically inclined, who have an interest in converting a bus. Witness the post above this one, and others that appreciate the money/headache saving tips..

We have your back Cheese, and although the angst is not directed at me personally, this time, feel your pain when some knucklehead comes on to try to stir the pot and get into a drawn out and ongoing pi$$ing contest for unknown reasons!

Keep up the good work, and while its easier said than done sometimes: don't let the negative chatter get into your head...

[dredman]

Originally Posted by peteg59

Sometimes it is best to let the "Negative Nellies" comments roll off one's back like water off the back of a duck.
.....
Keep up the good work, and while its easier said than done sometimes: don't let the negative chatter get into your head...

Like some, I hate when wonderful threads like this get derailed because of *gulp* "feelings", but I do see the upside, please allow me to share them.

1. The brisk discussion allows fence-sitters some real perspective
2. More discussion is almost always better, with increased volume comes increase in the illumination of good and bad ideas (something that is missing lately)
3. Perhaps more importantly, a bit of controversy keeps the thread up-top in the "Recent Threads" sidebar, which is where I find the topics I am interested
in

I would also like to note an observation that may give some insight into the primary objection to this thread:

Originally Posted by Chupa

I’m a member of at least 15 Skoolie FB groups and am the admin/creator of another. I’m doing what I can, I just don’t spend a lot of time sitting in front of a computer when I’m not at work so I don’t spend nearly as much time on the web based bulletin boards with HTML commenting, etc.

This to me says everything.

Comparing this palace of warmth and information to any of the shyte-shows on BookFace (or at least the ones I have plugged into) is an utter farce, but it explains quite a bit.

#1 - the best run group on Facebook is an unsearchable mess - by design
#2 - there is no way to make Facebook a User-friendly place to find information, unless you stick around for months/years & read every post....hmmm
#3 - the only groups I have found anything useful in have always had < 5 main contributors/creators, and several thousand commenters
#4 - the "feed" is NOT designed for sharing information, it is designed to serve ads, daily
#5 - not understanding the value of "web based bulletin boards" in finding what you are looking for, is most likely the primary cause for the flood of the same questions here. I can't imagine asking for help in a Facebook group and expecting the help I have received here - can anyone else?


Just my take on it

[rossvtaylor]

I was saddened to see a thread with such a great and positive and humorous (I know...CW said it wasn't meant to be humorous...but we have to look at the bright side when we can)...so where was I...oh, yeah. I was saddened to see a great thread devolve into negativity. I think there are some great lessons in the commandments and I hope the turn the thread took doesn't keep newbies and old schoolers, alike, from taking those points to heart.

I used to teach, both college classes and for private companies. I had my own rule, which worked well for me. I made the personal decision to not discuss politics, religion, or climate change in those venues. I might add a couple more, too, to keep up with the times. I've certainly had some of those discussions with a few of you...but outside of this public forum...because my views on those things add nothing to the school bus knowledge base. And that's why I've been quiet here and in other contentious threads.

I will say, to the Facebook topic, I only joined FB in order to buy buses or vintage trailers through the marketplace. I'm an old school Craigslist guy...but I find so many things on FB marketplace and, of course, you can't contact the sellers without a FB account. I will add that some groups there do offer help, but they're very narrow-topic groups...like the GM 4104 bus group or the Flxible owner's group, for example. Because of the narrow scope, I do find those groups helpful. But the skoolies for sale forum is a hot mess of bad info and negative, unhelpful comments.

Be well, all. I hope to meet almost all of you in person, someday, as you pass by on I-40.

[BeNimble]

My view is Though Shall Not use the term Ten Commandments.
When one says "Thou Shall not" I respond with I SHALL do whatever I want to..

That said, the advice is valid, and just like Cheesy others what is missing is advising that buying one in the first is a decision that needs serious consideration.
If you are one to do things off the beaten path and do it your way, then an old school bus is..still the wrong choice. Because now you ARE on the trendy well-beaten path.. But not so much as an RV ok, but the key is they are not cheap like before, which was the primary motivation to use one.
They weigh far too much, ride like crap, very expensive to keeping running and repair and get towed, get terrible mpg, prone to rust and window leaks, etc, etc.
Some will say the metal makes them safer, but not safer than in a truck with airbags and seatbelts.

And this leads to a major issu: motorhome vs trailer. 80-90% of campers use trailers, not motorhomes, because they just make more sense. You are not going to commute in a 40ft bus to work, and not going to hit the secluded beach spot, or even fillup in a regular gas station. Marrying your home to a drivetrain is just asking for trouble when you can't get a divorce.

You will want/need a second car to function.

The trailers give you a normal vehicle to use when the home is parked, and doesn't need expensive repairs to allow it to move. In fact, you can easily hire someone to tow it for you if you plan to stay long time in one place. Don't even need a big truck.
Or get a van to tow, now you have both big home and little one that you drive.

The Youtube videos are made by people trying to get clicks. Almost nobody watches 'downer' videos, they like the 'see how wonderful it is' videos.. which is why this one has 3,000 views, not 3,000,000 views...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2uU15M6Xzg

[CHEESE_WAGON]

*smh* This is only one of several times in less than a year that one of my threads or posts was:

1) Misconstrued and twisted into something it wasn't intended to be, up to and including starting racial BS when I was trying to be the voice of reason.

2) Converted to ground zero for a p*ssing match that had nothing to do with the subject matter.

3) Used to put me behind the eight-ball in some way due to a perceived violation of some obscure rule that I've noticed somehow hasn't applied to others, or other threads, under identical circumstances.

4) Somehow attracted some other form of drama.

Two threads, perhaps three that I can think of, at least four posts.

For the above reasons (and a few others, including numerous trolls, some of which quite honestly baffle me as to why they are here), my ignore list has been steadily growing for the past year, and I honestly can't say I enjoy my time here as much as I once did, mostly due to retribution for speaking the truth. It's not about who's right or wrong. I simply don't do drama, and I don't stay around it. That being said...

In addition, there is something I have to get off my chest. I have tirelessly tried to help others understand the gravity of safety when it comes to these vehicles, even offering my services at a very reasonable rate to get new buyer's purchase home to them without the hassle of whether a CDL is required, or having to get one, as I have a Class A myself. It's just risky for someone with no experience to operate such a vehicle without any training.

So I saw an opportunity to help others while making a few dollars on the side, and others' encouragement had me hoping to turn that into a side gig. However, out of nine potential 'clients', only two actually followed through -- the other seven were a mix of no-go on the bus sale up to and including (it certainly seemed anyway) that they apparently felt my experience in handling such vehicles wasn't worth paying for -- at least that's how it came across on at least two.

Which was a bit annoying, after spending a great deal of time helping someone to narrow down what they want and avoid wasting thousands on what they don't. It's not about the money, it's about the drama I deal with on here in the course of that, and the time already invested in them at that point. Recently, I even had a hopeful shut me down rather abruptly (and in a somewhat snippy way) when I called them about a prospect because it was a bad time -- when they chose to answer their phone anyway.

Also, if anyone that follows me here knows all too well that as I have learned more about my not-all-that-unique health issues and discovered that they not only negate the possibility of seeing through or doing much, if any, of the DIY aspect of a skoolie, they take diesel power off the table as well.

There has been much-appreciated talk of the community offering help in the build-out if I can find a suitable bus, but sadly, I am limited to LP / CNG / gasoline power, which is, at best, difficult to find in larger 30-40 footers like I am wanting. I have considered the 5-window cutaways and shuttle-buses, but I simply do not think these are going to have enough space for my purposes, unfortunately.

Which pretty much means, unless I can pull off a bus body swap to motorhome frame with a gasser without absurdly inflating the cost of the project, it appears I am wasting my time (and that of others) discussing it, especially as availability of such help would be limited to scheduled gatherings. Not to mention I have doubts as to whether the necessary work would be doable on such a truncated timetable.

So, I have decided to push away from the table and call it a night, moving on to other things. Mostly because there is entirely too much unnecessary comments and other traffic on this site these days that is keeping other members from getting their questions answered, often because people can't be bothered to read, and not only is nothing being done about it, attempts to help curb it have to turn into a free-for-all, and it's only getting worse. I have warned people that this site and this hobby is going to hell in a handbasket, but no one is listening. I'm done.

I'm sure some will say "Why the diatribe? Just leave". For starters, those asking that more than likely will never see that they are part of at least one of the above details in the first place.

And, well, the last time I backed away from the site following the "white privilege" incident, others noticed and started asking why, showing lots of support when I explained. And I appreciate those folks, because I consider them friends. Keep in touch if you like through email -- address is in my sig below my posts and PMs.

This site, quite frankly, has become a barrage, tornado, however you might describe it, of BS, and some of it is due to ignorance, some of it, quite frankly, appears to be due to what is deemed PC or not PC. Got no time for it -- I'm done. It's not likely owning another bus is in my future at this point anyway.

[Rivetboy]

[QUOTE=CHEESE_WAGON[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your time. Civil Service for 33 years Still have trouble understanding why we were percieved as the bad guys

You tried and some are better for it
And that is the goal

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

That said, the advice is valid, and just like Cheesy others what is missing is advising that buying one in the first is a decision that needs serious consideration.

I'll agree, as is your advice here generally... A couple thoughts:

Originally Posted by BeNimble

If you are one to do things off the beaten path and do it your way, then an old school bus is..still the wrong choice. Because now you ARE on the trendy well-beaten path..

I see avoiding something due to trendiness as the same as choosing something due to tendiness- the wrong reason. The solution fits you or it doesn't is my view.

Originally Posted by BeNimble

the key is they are not cheap like before, which was the primary motivation to use one.

Lets be honest: bus conversions, especially the big ones, were never cheap! Although you're right about rigs, or the initial cost, getting more expensive.

Originally Posted by BeNimble

And this leads to a major issu: motorhome vs trailer. 80-90% of campers use trailers, not motorhomes, because they just make more sense. You are not going to commute in a 40ft bus to work, and not going to hit the secluded beach spot, or even fillup in a regular gas station. Marrying your home to a drivetrain is just asking for trouble when you can't get a divorce.

This one depends on the day of the week for me... You're right in general, but if we narrow down the use case to full time living the gap does close slightly among RVers IIRC.

We currently have a dilemma with the 5th wheel we bought- nothing I have can tow it. We used it to rescue a relative from homelessness, it was really cheap considering how turn-key it was and what it got you, etc. But now we're facing the need for a considerable truck without much funding for that, and that truck is likely to become that relative's daily driver as they couldn't really afford much else. Considering her, I'm really not sure what would work better- a self propelled motorhome/bus with a tow dolly behind it and a small car, or the trailer and the big truck. I can easily handle either, but when its a small lady whom has never had to deal with any of this before... I dunno. Maybe you're right.

Originally Posted by BeNimble

You will want/need a second car to function.

Yeah, for sure.


And Cheese, just ignore the negative here...

[thjakits]

Best thing to advice a newbee (like myself...) - come on here (forums), and ASK!!
DON't be put off by sarcasm and negativity (those folks usually depart shortly) - there is no stupid question! Ask, ask, ask - SOMEONE WILL have an answer - maybe not what you wish to hear, but usually a correct one!!

thjakits

[Divenmedic]

I hate to ask but what’s wrong with Diesel engines newer than 2007?

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

I – Thou shalt not jump in feet-first without doing thy research.

II – Thou shalt have a realistic budget, and thou shalt not overpay.

III – Thou shalt know what thee is buying.

IV – Thou shalt not take thy seller's word as gold.

V – Thou shalt not buy sight unseen without a pre-purchase inspection.

VI – Thou shalt not buy diesels newer than 2007, nor shalt thou treat diesel engines as gasoline.

VII – Thou shalt study thine Commercial Driver's Manual, and take thy skoolie's weight, height and length seriously.

VIII – Thou shalt plan thy conversion carefully before beginning, and thou shalt seek help if necessary.

IX – Thou shalt not wontonly cut wiring, disable safety devices, or remove anything without consulting skoolie.net or professionals.

X – Thou shalt not scrap anything removed until it is proven unnecessary.

Well done, CW!

Take these to heart, keep your tongue in your cheek and your skoolie adventure will be chock full of happy moments and relatively few disappointments.

Just read through the thread. I didn't realize what a sh*tshow was going on! Hope you reconsider your departure and continue to provide the spark that makes this forum the best there is bar none. There will always be a place in the conversation for your advice and observations.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Divenmedic

I hate to ask but what’s wrong with Diesel engines newer than 2007?

EPA mandated significant reductions in diesel engines emissions, with major milestones that took effect in 2004, 2007, 2010 and later years. Engine manufacturers made various changes and added systems to their engines to meet these standards, with varying success. The results were generally gadgets prone to failure and expensive to replace, something you don't really want to face as a skoolie owner.

CHEESE_WAGON feels that 2007 (which introduced a PM or particulate matter standard) was the worst and that engines from 2004-2006 (which generally only had EGR or exhaust gas recirculation) are decent engines for a skoolie. The majority of users on this site would probably recommend getting a pre-2004 bus to be safe. 2010 or later, you are on your own - Navistar got sued (successfully) for concealing the fact that their 2010 and 2011 DT MaxxForce engines had major engine components with less than a two year lifespan (they quit making diesels altogether, which is why International buses now come with Cummins engines).

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Rucker

Well done, CW!

Take these to heart, keep your tongue in your cheek and your skoolie adventure will be chock full of happy moments and relatively few disappointments.

Just read through the thread. I didn't realize what a sh*tshow was going on! Hope you reconsider your departure and continue to provide the spark that makes this forum the best there is bar none. There will always be a place in the conversation for your advice and observations.

CW did not vacate on his own free will. I saw the notice, no reason written. Administrative Service Providers decided, for us and for him, that we ought not read his words.
Who is the cowardly wizard behind the curtain? She will continue to hide herself. Anyone who joins this forum can be silenced, deleted by she or he who remains unnamed.

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by DeMac

CW did not vacate on his own free will. I saw the notice, no reason written. Administrative Service Providers decided, for us and for him, that we ought not read his words.
Who is the cowardly wizard behind the curtain? She will continue to hide herself. Anyone who joins this forum can be silenced, deleted by she or he who remains unnamed.

Ah, sad ending. Still, nothing close to FaceBook drama. We live in interesting times.

[Maggie01]

Originally Posted by DeMac

CW did not vacate on his own free will. I saw the notice, no reason written. Administrative Service Providers decided, for us and for him, that we ought not read his words.
Who is the cowardly wizard behind the curtain? She will continue to hide herself. Anyone who joins this forum can be silenced, deleted by she or he who remains unnamed.

Just curious. When I first joined this site, I went way back and read a bunch of old threads to get started. There was one poster (I believe her name was Lorna something). Anyway I really enjoyed her posts and even PM'd her once (but she didn't answer). Does anyone know what happened to her? Was she also vacated by an administrator? If so, unfair! Like CW, she had alot of good information to share. Us newbies need the experiences of the old timers.

[bus-bro]

I remember Lorna. Don't know if I recall correctly, but I think she drifted out of here on her on account.

[Maggie01]

Originally Posted by bus-bro

I remember Lorna. Don't know if I recall correctly, but I think she drifted out of here on her on account.

Thanks! I really enjoyed her posts and wondered why she suddenly disappeared after being such a frequent poster.