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Old 02-04-2021, 05:19 PM   #1
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 90
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP EF
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 29 (Perimeter Seating)
thomas gutters leaking

Please pardon the ramble. Thomas 2003 Saftliner MVP FE
i hope to answer these 2 questions using the following info. More importantly i invite reletive comments/questions to the subject.

1) Is there a simple sealant solution to the gaps between gutter and roof panel, especially since some rust is starting to show at their junction? One which would not involve removing the gutters but still render them effective?
2) Given that the gutters have screws and buttons holding them on how tough would it be to remove them and then reinstall afterwards?


Ive discovered a source of leaks in my bus. Water runs off the roof, behind the gutters, and into the window frames - and from there into the interior. It became clear when a/c unit condensation runoff showed-up inside on a sunny day.

This led me to take a look at the gutters and wonder what was going on behind/underneath them. I was astonished to find that there is no sealant anywhere between the top edge of the gutters and the roof panels to which they are attached. There are sections of surface rust along the gutter/roof panel interface, which eventually, I assume, will breach the roof panels.

On the subject of that attachment, externally there are screws maybe each foot, but internally there are (see pics) ‘buttons’ every 2 inches or so. Are those buttons attaching the gutter, or simply aligning the gutter while the screws attach it? If attaching, how do I best remove/replace the gutter?

Is there a sealant that will fill the voids between the gutter and ceiling panel, but also neutralize/prevent further rusting? Or do I need to remove all gutters, sand and treat underneath and then remount the gutter, button for button.?

I assume the roof and exterior wall panels join behind the gutter. Does anyone know if this is a butt or lap joint?

thanks

Evan
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Old 02-05-2021, 09:52 AM   #2
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Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 90
Year: 2003
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Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP EF
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 29 (Perimeter Seating)
Have many here totally removed gutters from a Thomas, with intention of reinstalling? What did you find underneath? Was it an arduous process?
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Old 02-05-2021, 10:54 AM   #3
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Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlthe View Post
Have many here totally removed gutters from a Thomas, with intention of reinstalling? What did you find underneath? Was it an arduous process?
Hello
What you refer to as buttons that you can see from the inside are actually the rivets holding the roof panels on so maybe don't disturb those.
Yes the Thomas gutters are poorly sealed and attached allowing water behind them. What I did while doing my window replacement was to remove most of the screws on the gutter but keeping one end attached allowing me to clean behind it and reseal it with urethane sealant. released more gutter as I reinstalled the the cleaned portion.
Stay safe
Cheers

Oscar
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar1 View Post
Hello
What you refer to as buttons that you can see from the inside are actually the rivets holding the roof panels on so maybe don't disturb those.
Yes the Thomas gutters are poorly sealed and attached allowing water behind them. What I did while doing my window replacement was to remove most of the screws on the gutter but keeping one end attached allowing me to clean behind it and reseal it with urethane sealant. released more gutter as I reinstalled the the cleaned portion.
Stay safe
Cheers

Oscar
Ahh, so the gutters are held on, if somewhat poorly, just by the screws. I am relieved to here that and it explains the leakage. It also allays my fear that removing those screws would cause the side of bus to fall off.

Did you have any rust problems behind the gutter?

Thanks Oscar

Evan
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:23 PM   #5
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 1,043
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlthe View Post
Ahh, so the gutters are held on, if somewhat poorly, just by the screws. I am relieved to here that and it explains the leakage. It also allays my fear that removing those screws would cause the side of bus to fall off.

Did you have any rust problems behind the gutter?

Thanks Oscar

Evan
Hi Evan
No I had no rust issues but I think I got it early, but mine was definitely leaking behind there which like you said puts the water in a direct path to the windows. Also make sure you do the gutter over the rear door(same issue).
In my opinion the bus manufactures and school districts have a predetermined life expectancy of these things and they are built to that standard. If you know a school district cycles their buses out at 10 years do you build a 30 year body or do you focus on safety and reliability. I think safety standards not longevity are the priorities.
I use Dap brand polyurethane from Home Depot for most sealant jobs, inexpensive, good adhesion, dries quick, paintable. Don't recommend silicone anywhere outside of bathroom tile.
Good luck with your work
Cheers

Oscar
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:02 PM   #6
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Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 90
Year: 2003
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Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP EF
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 29 (Perimeter Seating)
thanks again Oscar

I pulled out a few of those screws and it was just as you said.

Dealing with the gutters at least will be pretty straightforward, though i spect the windows will be next and less compliant.

take care

Evan
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