Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-25-2019, 10:47 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63
Year: 2007
Coachwork: International
Engine: 6L
Rated Cap: 21,000lbs
To Sound Deaden or Not to Sound Deaden?

For those of you who used sound deadening mats (like kilmat), where and how much did you use it? Do you feel it was worth it?

The total wall and floor square footage for our bus is around 550 sq feet, which would add up to quite a bit of $ if I cover every inch in the mats, plus insulation.
I want to do a good job but also don't want to waste money if, say, just doing the floor will suffice.
ladybird_bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:03 AM   #2
Skoolie
 
peakbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Posts: 223
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Girardin Microbird
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: 7.3 Diesel
Rated Cap: 25
Someone posted about using Lizard Skin spray throughout their bus. It is pricey. I found it didn't help much with my engine noise but I bet it would help on panel vibration noise. I wonder if you need it though if using spray foam insulation? I would think the spray foam coating the panels would minimize the rumble. I plan to have walls/ceiling sprayed and likely use rigid on floor and below the chair rail. I don't know if gluing rigid foam down will help as much on the floor? That's where I could see the Lizard skin or mat being helpful.
peakbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:10 AM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63
Year: 2007
Coachwork: International
Engine: 6L
Rated Cap: 21,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by peakbus View Post
Someone posted about using Lizard Skin spray throughout their bus. It is pricey. I found it didn't help much with my engine noise but I bet it would help on panel vibration noise. I wonder if you need it though if using spray foam insulation? I would think the spray foam coating the panels would minimize the rumble. I plan to have walls/ceiling sprayed and likely use rigid on floor and below the chair rail. I don't know if gluing rigid foam down will help as much on the floor? That's where I could see the Lizard skin or mat being helpful.
Interesting. Thank you!
The fibreglass we've just revealed in the ceiling is in really great shape. I was hoping to leave it in, spray in the expanding stuff to fill some gaps, add a layer of reflective heavy-duty foil over the top and call it good. The BF is pushing for spray in foam instead and darn it, maybe that would be a better way to go.
ladybird_bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:13 AM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Go with the foam if you can afford it. The fiberglass is pretty much worthless as insulation...(but is great at holding moisture). Also, the foam greatly reduces vibration and lowers road and engine noise. Just make sure to use closed cell foam.


Best of luck on the build.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:15 AM   #5
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 9,030
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybird_bus View Post
Interesting. Thank you!
The fibreglass we've just revealed in the ceiling is in really great shape. I was hoping to leave it in, spray in the expanding stuff to fill some gaps, add a layer of reflective heavy-duty foil over the top and call it good. The BF is pushing for spray in foam instead and darn it, maybe that would be a better way to go.
The batt insulation there from the factory is not very effective and really doesn't insulate that much. You would be much better off removing it and replacing it with something more efficient. Rigid foam board is the easiest and cheaper than spray foam.
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:39 AM   #6
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 52
I used some..

I used self adhesive 80mil butyl on the firewall and floor board under the drivers feet and the tranny cover...

I also have carpet mat and carpet over the same area... so... not sure what helped more, but VERY happy with the resulting lack of engine noise. I have to use the tach at low speeds because I can't hear the engine like I used to..

Put some on the underside of some other strategic metal panels as well. (hood, and inside the space above the windshield).. Pleased with the change in acoustics.. quiet inside now instead of tinny. Sound just dies instead of bouncing around echoing like an empty gymnasium like it did when completely empty.

Drove empty all the way from California to Alaska... wow... that was noisy..
Sooooo much better now.

This also changed with insulated walls and wood paneling, so not entirely from the sound deadener, but I think it helped...
crowcreekcabin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 01:15 PM   #7
Bus Nut
 
Yukon Cornelius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Barrie ON
Posts: 440
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 72
Tracking...

My theory is place where you may not have space for insulation it would be a good spot, drivers area (depending on config) firewall, hood, stairs, etc.
__________________
Yukon

Handyman and Shenaniganizer
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/97...ion-22324.html
Yukon Cornelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 01:20 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,451
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybird_bus View Post
Interesting. Thank you!
The fibreglass we've just revealed in the ceiling is in really great shape. I was hoping to leave it in, spray in the expanding stuff to fill some gaps, add a layer of reflective heavy-duty foil over the top and call it good. The BF is pushing for spray in foam instead and darn it, maybe that would be a better way to go.
If leaving the fiberglass don't even bother spraying foam in between. Go foam or just leave it be, IMO.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 12:15 PM   #9
Bus Nut
 
Ninjakitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Brevard County, FL
Posts: 905
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Ford
Engine: 6.6 New Holland Diesel
Rated Cap: 60 kids, 10 window
I put kilmat in the front area (need more for the firewall and driver's feet area) the stairwell, and on the doghouse cover. Carpeted the doghouse cover as well.there has been a reduction in engine noise.
__________________
Nick
Ninjakitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 04:22 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
WoodenYouKnowIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Lake Barkley
Posts: 127
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Prevost
Chassis: H3-45
Engine: Detroit DDEC III
Rated Cap: A LOT
I have an old Volvo Sedan that I put Dynamat in a few years ago. I put the stuff everywhere I could and that included the above the headliner. The Dynamat was really pricey and I ran out before I had everything covered. I couldn't afford any more Dynamat so I finished the job with this stuff from Home Depot. Here's a link:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/USEAL-US...2AF6/202086180

With the exception of the HD stuff coming in 6" wide rolls, it's the very same stuff as Dynamat.

When I got done the car was Cadillac/cathedral quiet on the inside. Also, the doors gave these beautiful solid thuddy sounds when slamming them. Of course, Volvo doors are very good anyway.

One thing that was dissappointing though was that when I was running about 70 to 80 down the interstate, all the noise was coming back. This was not the fault of the sound deadening. Rather, it was because all of the window seals, grommets and other things that are supposed to seal off the passenger compartment had all degraded over the life of this car. This is the reason that many people go to the trouble of applying the mat material and still don't get what they were hoping for. When I started tracking down all the places where wind was getting into the car and making noise in the process, I really started getting the results I wanted.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 035.jpg (333.3 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg 032.jpg (313.5 KB, 15 views)
__________________
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.
WoodenYouKnowIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 05:38 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 191
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: 6-71TA
Rated Cap: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybird_bus View Post
Interesting. Thank you!
The fibreglass we've just revealed in the ceiling is in really great shape. I was hoping to leave it in, spray in the expanding stuff to fill some gaps, add a layer of reflective heavy-duty foil over the top and call it good. The BF is pushing for spray in foam instead and darn it, maybe that would be a better way to go.

I agree with your BF to remove the fiberglass and use foam. Here are some other reasons why from one of my earlier posts:

Insulation in walls and ceiling - Page 2 - School Bus Conversion Resources
GWRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 05:38 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Rovobay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Damascus, OR
Posts: 627
Year: 2004
Chassis: International
Engine: T444e w/ 2000 Allison Trans
Rated Cap: 35
I would love to see some pics of folks deadening efforts in their buses....
__________________
My Build: https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/sk...doo-22140.html

Follow our build on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/skoolie_doo/
Rovobay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 06:07 PM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63
Year: 2007
Coachwork: International
Engine: 6L
Rated Cap: 21,000lbs
Thanks for the replies, everyone!
Foam it is.
I think we're going to buy a DIY two-component kit to use on the ceilings and the walls below the windows, rigid foam boards for the floors and sound deadener plus carpet around the driver's seat.
ladybird_bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 06:09 PM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63
Year: 2007
Coachwork: International
Engine: 6L
Rated Cap: 21,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenYouKnowIt View Post
I have an old Volvo Sedan that I put Dynamat in a few years ago. I put the stuff everywhere I could and that included the above the headliner. The Dynamat was really pricey and I ran out before I had everything covered. I couldn't afford any more Dynamat so I finished the job with this stuff from Home Depot. Here's a link:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/USEAL-US...2AF6/202086180

With the exception of the HD stuff coming in 6" wide rolls, it's the very same stuff as Dynamat.

When I got done the car was Cadillac/cathedral quiet on the inside. Also, the doors gave these beautiful solid thuddy sounds when slamming them. Of course, Volvo doors are very good anyway.

One thing that was dissappointing though was that when I was running about 70 to 80 down the interstate, all the noise was coming back. This was not the fault of the sound deadening. Rather, it was because all of the window seals, grommets and other things that are supposed to seal off the passenger compartment had all degraded over the life of this car. This is the reason that many people go to the trouble of applying the mat material and still don't get what they were hoping for. When I started tracking down all the places where wind was getting into the car and making noise in the process, I really started getting the results I wanted.
Thank you! This was really helpful.
Did you find there was a strong smell from the asphalt in those products when it got hot? I've read that sometimes there is initially but it dissipates over time. But I'm not crazy about adding in carcinogens if it can be avoided..
ladybird_bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 08:04 PM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Sound deadening sheet metal successfully requires mass. Check the weight per square foot of any product you are considering. You will note that the price is in direct proportion to its' weight.


So is its' effectiveness.


The best can run 1-2 pounds per sf.


Good news is...the "good stuff" (unlike thermal insulation) does not need to fully cover large areas. A single square foot or so is often enough to quieten something like a car door.


The absolute best product is one I used years ago on my first conversion (a 40' BBAA)...sheet lead. Not exactly something the EPA would very likely embrace these days but was commonly used in buses and trains up into the '70's.


I bought three, four foot wide rolls at a garage sale at the Houston Metro Authority.


Yes. They were VERY heavy.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 10:17 PM   #16
Bus Crazy
 
turf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,603
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
i used some sound deadening on panels and like the result.

you don't have to cover the whole panel, you just need pieces that weigh enough to change its resonating frequency of the metal.

get some dynamat and put it on any rattle you hear now. a little can fix a lot of rattle
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 11:42 PM   #17
Skoolie
 
WoodenYouKnowIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Lake Barkley
Posts: 127
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Prevost
Chassis: H3-45
Engine: Detroit DDEC III
Rated Cap: A LOT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladybird_bus View Post
Did you find there was a strong smell from the asphalt in those products when it got hot?
There was no smell of asphalt at all.
__________________
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.
WoodenYouKnowIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 02:51 PM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63
Year: 2007
Coachwork: International
Engine: 6L
Rated Cap: 21,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenYouKnowIt View Post
There was no smell of asphalt at all.
Thanks!
And I really love the signature line on your posts, by the way
ladybird_bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 03:12 PM   #19
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,306
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by peakbus View Post
Someone posted about using Lizard Skin spray throughout their bus. It is pricey. I found it didn't help much with my engine noise but I bet it would help on panel vibration noise. I wonder if you need it though if using spray foam insulation? I would think the spray foam coating the panels would minimize the rumble. I plan to have walls/ceiling sprayed and likely use rigid on floor and below the chair rail. I don't know if gluing rigid foam down will help as much on the floor? That's where I could see the Lizard skin or mat being helpful.
When I drove my first bus home from the spray foam installer it was like driving a different bus.

It was SOO much quieter.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2019, 04:02 PM   #20
Almost There
 
vintageracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 73
You can buy a lot of ear plugs for the cost of Dynamat or Foam insulation!
__________________
Mike

Remember "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts"
vintageracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×