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Old 06-22-2018, 08:58 AM   #21
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
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Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
Rated Cap: 14
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:57 PM   #22
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 321
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
Rated Cap: 14
Spent about an hour and a half today unbolting seats with my eldest. No rusted shut bolts. Most were extracted with the air rachet and only a few required the impact.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:27 PM   #23
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 1,269
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
I paid two kids to remove the seats from my beastie. Used a Sawzall and an impact driver. Faster that way (for me).
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:02 AM   #24
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: GA
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Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: T444e v8 turbo
Rated Cap: was 72, now 3
Exclamation Wood heater?

or a wood stove you can cook on?
I put my stove half way down the side to heat both ends and fans help a lot.

I looked at small stoves and purchased an excellent 30LB steel stove 11"Hx16Wx24"D [now unavailable] and bolted it to a custom welded steel stand that is bolted thru the floor [3/8" bolts].

DO NOT SKIMP on securing items.
Suppose a skoolie hits something inelastic of equal weight with an unsecured 30LB item,
In a 30 to 0mph in 1ft crash the deceleration is 30Gs and the force is 900 pounds.
In a 45 to 0mph in 1ft crash the deceleration is 70Gs and the force is 2032 pounds.
In a 55 to 0mph in 1ft crash the deceleration is 100Gs and the force is 3035 pounds.
Above 50Gs internal organs are damaged.

Here is a deceleration calculator
Car Crash Example

The seatbelts in your plan are an excellent idea.
It is safer to face the back, than the front.
Thinking carseat, no one can hold onto a 15LB child who suddenly weighs 450 to 1500 pounds!
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Old 06-25-2018, 06:18 AM   #25
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
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Year: 1994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrw44 View Post
or a wood stove you can cook on?

I've gone back and forth on this. It'll probably boil down to what I can find cheaply (probably a stove). I've got a 7 window so I don't have as much to heat up.




Quote:
Originally Posted by xrw44 View Post
DO NOT SKIMP on securing items.

Oh yes, I'm well aware of the scary car crash physics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xrw44 View Post
The seatbelts in your plan are an excellent idea.
I wouldn't take my kids on a trip without them.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:15 AM   #26
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
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Year: 1997
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Nice bus! If it were me, I'd fix the broken AC. Both my buses have dual air and even in a short bus it's not enough while driving into the sun in the summer. I can cool my Vista down to the low 60s if I'm idling with my windshield sun shade in place, but it doesn't mean much when you're driving. I'll be sweating in the driver's seat while Hillary is putting on a jacket 3 feet behind me.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:46 AM   #27
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
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Year: 1994
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokedown View Post
Nice bus! If it were me, I'd fix the broken AC. Both my buses have dual air and even in a short bus it's not enough while driving into the sun in the summer. I can cool my Vista down to the low 60s if I'm idling with my windshield sun shade in place, but it doesn't mean much when you're driving. I'll be sweating in the driver's seat while Hillary is putting on a jacket 3 feet behind me.

There are several reasons I will be removing one unit.

1. The rear unit is right over the rear exit and cuts into head space in my already small bunkroom/bathroom.

2. One of the condensors is mounted exactly where I plan to put my grey tank (between the shower and sink). See my proposed floor plan on the first page.
3. These units are fairly large, I'm not sure what the but is off the top of my head, but I'm guessing its more than I will need for transporting about half of the rated capacity of people. I don't think I'll need both, but I'll run come calculations with my proposed insulation and see.

4. When driving the front unit is directly overhead of where my family will be buckled in.


What does your insulation setup look like? Floor, walls, ceilings?
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:45 AM   #28
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 321
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
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Minor update. good deals!

So progress has been slow. Mainly I haven't had any room to put things in my garage as I work on the demo. But that problem has been solved. So work progresses. Both A/C units were tested before clearing and I found that one was in serious need of a charge. No worries. They both need to come out for the time being. I heard somewhere that if you open the system to air for a significant amount of time you have to replace the dryer. Does anyone familiar with A/C care to comment?

On other notes I had posted in indivual threads but I think I should document here some of the things I've purchased for my bus.

1. I found 6 unused tires for sale at auction and bought them for 250. They are being stored at my parents house in NM until I make it that way. Turns out they are 8 years old but have been stored inside. I'll have to inspect a bit more before I put them on (maybe).

2. I found 4 245w Bosch mono solar panels for $75 a piece. I'm hoping I can fit these panels 2 in front of front emergency hatch, and 2 in rear of rear emergency hatch. We shall see.

3. I picked up a Xantrex Freedom 458 2500w MSW inverter/charger for $145. I would have preferred a PSW, but at that price I couldn't turn it down. Now to find a remote panel for it..

Things I'm on the hunt for a good deal on.
1. Midnite Solar Classic 150
2. Hot water heater
3. Stove top w/ or w/o an oven
4. 24x32 shower pan
5. Airhead toilet
6. Water tanks
7. Breaker box, fuse panel, outlets, various electrical, etc...

My son and I will attempt handicap lift removal tomorrow. Wish us luck and direct any pointers this way please. I know I need to beware any interlocks, but other than that we'll be just winging it.
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:59 AM   #29
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 321
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
Rated Cap: 14
Long overdue update

WOW... It has been sometime since I've posted any updates about my build. No, I haven't given up. Yes, I'm slow, but I always knew it would take me some time, and I never planned to rush it, just to do it "right". So what have I been doing on my bus...

1. Gutted: All the flooring was removed, rust was cleaned up, converted, floor was painted with rustoleum. All the walls and ceilings were taken down, and the old insulation was removed. All the extra lights were removed, and all additional unused wiring was stripped out. The roof hatches were removed. The AC units were taken down (still have one to reinstall).

2. Insulated: 1" foam board under the subfloor. Closed cell spray foam on the walls and ceiling. This includes the back wall (those panels were a BITCH to get back on). SO glad I had the professionals come in and do this. I could not have done a better job myself, nor a cheaper one.

3. Skylights / vent fan: 2 skylights were installed. One in the front area where the original roof hatch was, and a smaller one where the walk through shower will be. Where the rear hatch was a MaxxFan was installed.

4. Plated and insured. Managed to get TX Antique Bus plates, and liability insurance on my bus while I'm converting.

5. Shortened the exhaust. I ran the exhaust out the side ahead of the rear tire. This allows me much more space under the overhang.

6. Used as a moving van. Man it sure was nice to have an empty bus to move my household cross-country. I piled the goods in, and drove it across TX from Houston, to Cloudcroft, NM. Weighed in at 20,780 lbs. Would have been much more pleasant if the Gestapo (Border Patrol) hadn't stopped me to search for "drugs". Even made it up the mountain without any major issues (I did stop once to let the engine cool down).

7. Plans change. With much input from many people, I've made many different floor plans... This is the one I've settled on (FOR NOW). It has bunks in the back for my kids (which will eventually become a "master bedroom", once I kick them out), and a fold out full for my wife and I up front.

8. Purchases made. I've always been on the hunt for good deals, and I've found a few. Here are some of my bus purchases;
Dickinson Bristol Diesel stove/oven: $500 used on CL. I had an old Marine buddy of mine pick it up in WA. Still need to get it freighted to me.

Midnite Solar Classic 200: $425 used on CL. A gentleman in OR pulled it off his cabin, and it should arrive any day.

Webasto DBW 2010 Scholastic: $1600 NIB on Ebay. Most expensive purchase I've made, but it will be the cornerstone of my heating (both cabin and potable water). I know I could've found one cheaper, but for a NIB kit complete with the enclosure, I felt it was a good deal. Arriving today!!!

Kuuma 6 gal water heater: I'll switch out the 120v heating for a 12v system, and run the engine coolant through the heat exchanger.

Bricor low flow shower-head and aerator: .675 gpm for the shower, and .375 gpm for the faucet. Water consumption is one of my main concerns. These should help with that.

Danfoss BD35 compressor: This is for my chest freezer -> fridge conversion. I want a native 12v chest fridge, but don't want to pay the $$ for a ready made one, so I'll make my own!

Under body box: My brother in law bought a new one for his long haul trailer, and sold me his older one. I'll probably try to put the house batteries in it, if I can make them fit.
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Old 11-08-2021, 08:26 AM   #30
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 321
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
Rated Cap: 14
Prospective Plumbing

Here is my prospective plumbing diagram. Let me know any suggestions you've got or things I've missed. It includes;

1. Fresh water tank. Probably a 92 gallon. It looks like that is the closest in dimensions for the space I'm trying to fill.

2. City water connection. Pressure regulator, check valve, and a 3 way valve to allow direct filling of the tank.

3. Pump, strainer, accumulator tank. Probably a ShurFlo 4008-101-A65 (or E65). I'm still toying with the idea of going with a centrifugal pump instead of a positive displacement. If I do, that will require a check valve.

4. Water heater. Kuuma 6 gallon w/ coolant exchanger #11810. I'll be converting this from 1500W 120VAC to 600W 12vdc so I can run it sans inverter. Hindsight being what it is, I should have gone with the Whale Seaward #F600. From what I've found in the manuals, it appears the guts on the Whale Seaward could have handled the swap over to DC (except the wires & coil). I don't believe the Kuuma has the right stuff (TBH, I haven't had the time to open the box). Oh well. It should be easy to replace. T&P 210° F relief valve piped back to fresh water tank.

5. Stove. Dickinson Bristol Diesel Stove. I still need to buy the hot water loop, install it, and replace the fire cement and sealant. This will be piped to the potable water directly off the water heater.

6. Thermostatic mixing valve. This will temper the hot water down to "shower" temp. I'll probably set it at about 100° F.

7. Shower. Pull chain valve, Bricor .675gpm ultra low flow showerhead. Conservation is key.

8. Trap valve. This is for a tempered water recirculation loop. This will remain open until the temp reaches 95° F, and will be installed very close to the chain valve on the shower system. When I open the valve on the recirculation system, the water in the shower piping will loop until it reaches shower temp, at which point the loop will automatically close, and my shower is ready. No wasted water while waiting for the shower to warm up.

9. Coolant Heater. Webasto Scholastic. I want to re valve the system so that I have the option of use the stock expansion tank while not warming the engine. This will conserve diesel.
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Old 11-10-2021, 08:07 AM   #31
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Toledo OH
Posts: 780
Year: 2006
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MVP-EF
Engine: Cat C7 + Allison 3000PTS
I saw your plumbing diagram on facebook, definitely interested to see how that comes together. I have a webasto scholastic as well and provided I can get it firing again (fingers crossed it’s just the fuel filter) I want to do something very similar to what you’ve done.
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Old 11-10-2021, 08:30 AM   #32
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,591
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
if you leave one valve open and the other closed going to your engine then you can use expansion / contraction of the bus's cooling system without actually heating the engine.. sure you'll have a little heat transfer from natural progression of heat and of course as the coolant expands it will push a little warmth past the open valve but from my experience no real flow occurs and its minimal compared to if ytou do heat the engine..



in my case I wanted the ability to do both and also completely close off my heating system for summer and / or if I spring a leak I can still drive without cabin heat rather than be stranded if i had no valve.



I went with a couple drive-open, drive-closed electric ball valves.. originally I ran a couple solenoid valves that were normally closed and powered open.. they pull quite a bit of current so holding a valve open all the time was power-hungry...



its best to leave one valve open pretty much all the time unless you specifically dont want it.. this way as the heating system cols down when the bus is parked un-used, you wont go into negative pressure potentially sucking air if something isnt 100% tight.



im still building the full remote control panel for mine where i can set custom run configs from my phone.



the valves I used have pretty close to 0 current in standby.. a couple milliamps.. which you could potentially even cut that power off if you wanted.. they have the ability for open / close end switch / indicator light which i havent wired up.. no need right now for it.. reversing polarity on one pair of its wires switches from open to close.. so i use a DPDT relay.
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Old 11-10-2021, 08:37 AM   #33
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
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Year: 1994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbsoundman View Post
I saw your plumbing diagram on facebook, definitely interested to see how that comes together. I have a webasto scholastic as well and provided I can get it firing again (fingers crossed it’s just the fuel filter) I want to do something very similar to what you’ve done.
Well, don't hold your breath. I'm on that SLOW build track. I find myself with more money then time, so I'm stuck engineering and purchasing parts. Just found a nice 2 gallon expansion tank at the local used boat parts reseller for $20.

One of these days, I'll quit/be fired, and have all the time in the world. If things continue how they are I'll have all my build supplies as well.
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Old 11-10-2021, 08:49 AM   #34
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 321
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
Rated Cap: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
if you leave one valve open and the other closed...
Good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I went with a couple drive-open, drive-closed electric ball valves..
I'm interested in what valves you went with. I'd love to see the valve specs, your P&ID, your code, and anything else you care to share. Also, I sent you a DM about the Webasto service manual when you get a chance.
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Old 11-14-2021, 08:01 AM   #35
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 321
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
Rated Cap: 14
Bought my water pump. I went with a Shurflo 8007-543-836 (1.8gpm, 40-60psi, non-bypass, switched, fused, pressure controlled) which is an agricultural sprayer pump instead of one of the RV pumps like the 4008. There are several reasons

1. I like that it's fused, switched, and has a trailer connection. This will make it easier to install/replace.
2. The system I'm designing is low flow (.675gpm shower, .375gpm faucet). If I bought a higher flow pump I'd be more likely to short cycle which harms the pump.
3. This is a non-bypass pump. Bypass pumps like the 4008 are actually designed to be run while you are requesting water and they modulate the bypass to keep the pump running. They do this by bleeding water from the outlet back to the inlet.
4. I have a 2 gallon accumulator that I picked up for $20.

My theory is as follows;
Accumulator set at 40psi. At 60psi it should hold somewhere around 1 gallon of water. I'm free to use that and my pump won't turn on until it is used. Once it does, my pump can continue to supply all my shower/faucet needs and refill the accumulator which should take about a minute if I'm running water full blast.

Anyways, that's my plan. I'm curious to know which pumps/accumulators you guys got and how they've worked for you. How often do they run and for how long. Do they turn on every time you run a faucet?Click image for larger version

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Old 01-14-2023, 05:35 PM   #36
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 321
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT408 6.7L L6
Rated Cap: 14
So I spent the day wiring my water heater up for use on 12vdc. It went together pretty well minus a socket connecter for the relay so that is the loose wire that you see that will eventually be connected to terminal 86 on the relay. Also, I'll probably pull that wire and make it red. Terminal 85 will go to a main switch to turn off the system as a whole. I used 3 different wire gauges, 14, 10, and 6 to accommodate the higher amps I'll be seeing. Also note, the red 6awg positive cable connects to both heater elements, and the black 6awg cable connects to both 1&3 terminals on the 66T, instead of splitting and connecting with 10awg per the drawing. What say you?Click image for larger version

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