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Old 06-10-2021, 11:50 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
30' Flatnose International IC3000 (2003) DT466e build

Ok. Hi. *tap* *tap* Is this thing on? ...

It's been months since i've been on this forum, which, as you might have guessed, means it's been months since I've done anything with our bus. Lots of life changes. Covid. The oddly cold weather for a Virginia winter. You name it.

(I did create one thread earlier, but it was for a specific issue ...I'm opening this thread up now to just have a longstanding diary for the whole process.)

Anyway, as luck would have it — I happen to have some petty neighbors who have been complaining about the bus parked in our back driveway. She told us back in March that we needed to remove it, but the city has been blocking our back alley doing some work ... until about a week ago. I hadn't realized they'd finished and our landlord came by for a (technically illegal, but that's besides the point) unannounced inspection and said we have until THIS SATURDAY to get the bus elsewhere or she will be taking "legal action."

Since the bus started last time I messed with it, I didn't think this would be an issue. What seemed like a bigger issue was finding a location to keep and work on it. I found a place about 45 minutes out of town that said I could keep it there for $100 per month (neither party is sure if this is a fair price ... is this a fair price?)

I put the charger on the battery yesterday afternoon, and my charger detected it as "sulfated." So I left it on to desulfate, and after a few hours the display on my charger showed that it was almost fully charged.

Today, I went out to try to start it. Immediately all the electronic stuff came on. The WARN lite. The "beeping." The engine tried to turn over but just wouldn't.

I tried a few times and it made a variety of other desultory sounds. When I pulled the key out the horn even started honking quite loudly. That stopped when I closed the battery door.

Also, I removed a couple electronics panels that had been screwed into the wall and heard them making some sort of buzzing sound until, using my shoe as to not shock myself) guided the panels back toward the wall to make contact — upon which the light buzzing sound stopped.

Soooooo yeah. Should I get a new battery? If so, what kind? I need to get this elsewhere FAST and am kicking myself for not continually turning the bus on for the last few months while I didn't have time to work on it — just so I could prevent being in such an imminent bind.

I've uploaded some videos of my attempting to start the bus to a dropbox folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w7tdjj00k...0squSU5ka?dl=0

Here are some photos of what the interior looks like, as we have been gutting it and found A LOT of rust ...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a8827v1ym...flOe_jHTa?dl=0

Seems like my next steps after getting it drivable again will be to re-seal the emergency hatch and windows before learning how to weld to patch/replace parts of the flooring.

In any case, whatever insights or information you all might be able to provide would be GREATLY appreciated. Open to all manner of discussion, but my primary concern in this moment is not having to deal with my landlord hassling me and barring me from re-signing the least later this summer.

Thank you so much!!!

-mars

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Old 06-10-2021, 12:31 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Miami, Fl.
Posts: 561
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E-Md3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by marceloasherq View Post
Ok. Hi. *tap* *tap* Is this thing on? ...

It's been months since i've been on this forum, which, as you might have guessed, means it's been months since I've done anything with our bus. Lots of life changes. Covid. The oddly cold weather for a Virginia winter. You name it.

(I did create one thread earlier, but it was for a specific issue ...I'm opening this thread up now to just have a longstanding diary for the whole process.)

Anyway, as luck would have it — I happen to have some petty neighbors who have been complaining about the bus parked in our back driveway. She told us back in March that we needed to remove it, but the city has been blocking our back alley doing some work ... until about a week ago. I hadn't realized they'd finished and our landlord came by for a (technically illegal, but that's besides the point) unannounced inspection and said we have until THIS SATURDAY to get the bus elsewhere or she will be taking "legal action."

Since the bus started last time I messed with it, I didn't think this would be an issue. What seemed like a bigger issue was finding a location to keep and work on it. I found a place about 45 minutes out of town that said I could keep it there for $100 per month (neither party is sure if this is a fair price ... is this a fair price?)

I put the charger on the battery yesterday afternoon, and my charger detected it as "sulfated." So I left it on to desulfate, and after a few hours the display on my charger showed that it was almost fully charged.

Today, I went out to try to start it. Immediately all the electronic stuff came on. The WARN lite. The "beeping." The engine tried to turn over but just wouldn't.

I tried a few times and it made a variety of other desultory sounds. When I pulled the key out the horn even started honking quite loudly. That stopped when I closed the battery door.

Also, I removed a couple electronics panels that had been screwed into the wall and heard them making some sort of buzzing sound until, using my shoe as to not shock myself) guided the panels back toward the wall to make contact — upon which the light buzzing sound stopped.

Soooooo yeah. Should I get a new battery? If so, what kind? I need to get this elsewhere FAST and am kicking myself for not continually turning the bus on for the last few months while I didn't have time to work on it — just so I could prevent being in such an imminent bind.

I've uploaded some videos of my attempting to start the bus to a dropbox folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w7tdjj00k...0squSU5ka?dl=0

Here are some photos of what the interior looks like, as we have been gutting it and found A LOT of rust ...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a8827v1ym...flOe_jHTa?dl=0

Seems like my next steps after getting it drivable again will be to re-seal the emergency hatch and windows before learning how to weld to patch/replace parts of the flooring.

In any case, whatever insights or information you all might be able to provide would be GREATLY appreciated. Open to all manner of discussion, but my primary concern in this moment is not having to deal with my landlord hassling me and barring me from re-signing the least later this summer.

Thank you so much!!!

-mars
The first video….

I would clean the battery terminalsand even undo and clean the grounds.
Fresh batteries would be a plus!
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Old 06-10-2021, 12:37 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo1 View Post
The first video….

I would clean the battery terminalsand even undo and clean the grounds.
Fresh batteries would be a plus!
What did the first video tell you? I’m totally a beginner here.

Right now it only has the one battery. What sort of battery should I get?

So to clean those things ... just a steel brush? I’m about to be home in between work projects (furniture assembly) and can send a picture of the current battery.
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Old 06-10-2021, 12:54 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Miami, Fl.
Posts: 561
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E-Md3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by marceloasherq View Post
What did the first video tell you? I’m totally a beginner here.

Right now it only has the one battery. What sort of battery should I get?

So to clean those things ... just a steel brush? I’m about to be home in between work projects (furniture assembly) and can send a picture of the current battery.
Please don’t take this the wrong way but you got a lot of reading and learning to do.

The constant rapid clicking sound when you turn the key is a clear indicator of not enough power.

You should have at least 2 batteries in your bus. One weak battery will do just what it is doing.

Also, you need to make sure you remove the fuse for the engine ecm and I would also pull the fuse for the tranny Tcm whenever you decide to charge your batteries. Those computer components do not like dirty power. What I mean by dirty is noise, spikes on the line when connecting and disconnection batteries, jumper cables of batt chargers.

We damaged my friends tcm that way, battery charger and trying to start with charger connected.

Use fresh, strong batteries.

One battery on a diesel motor is not gonna get you far.

The ecu fuse should be right on the positive battery cable, in the batt box.

The tcm fuse…well on my friends FE Amtrak, we found it underneath the bus between the top of the frame, next to the steering box or, right under the brake pedal valve.
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:31 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo1 View Post
Please don’t take this the wrong way but you got a lot of reading and learning to do.

The constant rapid clicking sound when you turn the key is a clear indicator of not enough power.

You should have at least 2 batteries in your bus. One weak battery will do just what it is doing.

Also, you need to make sure you remove the fuse for the engine ecm and I would also pull the fuse for the tranny Tcm whenever you decide to charge your batteries. Those computer components do not like dirty power. What I mean by dirty is noise, spikes on the line when connecting and disconnection batteries, jumper cables of batt chargers.

We damaged my friends tcm that way, battery charger and trying to start with charger connected.

Use fresh, strong batteries.

One battery on a diesel motor is not gonna get you far.

The ecu fuse should be right on the positive battery cable, in the batt box.

The tcm fuse…well on my friends FE Amtrak, we found it underneath the bus between the top of the frame, next to the steering box or, right under the brake pedal valve.
OK, so that’s what I thought, regarding the power and clicking. Since the clicking sounds a little bit different than any other vehicle I’ve owned I wasn’t entirely positive and was airing on the side of anxiety that somehow the engine was locked up. So silly. Anyway, not at all offended by you saying that I have a lot to read and learn. That’s essentially a big part of why I’m doing this at all. And so I guess in some ways I’ve been doing this a little bit backwards since I have woodworking experience but certainly nothing mechanical, and so the biggest learning curves are coming first.

Any tips on a specific brand/type of batteries I should get? Hoping I can find something local, considering the tome crunch. International has a dealership about 30 minutes from my house, but I’m unsure if they sell batteries. But I know they do do service work. For $150 an hour.

As far as the fuses go, what are your thoughts on using one of those levers systems that basically you pull it up and it disconnects the batteries from anything in the bus at all and when you pull it down into place then the contact is made? That seems like it might be a more feasible and time sensitive solution than learning with those fuses are exactly in the meantime.


Again, so so so appreciative of all the help! Don’t even ever feel afraid to say “Google it buddy,” if I’m asking someone that’s too basic.My nerves are just a little bit raise right now with this whole landlord dilemma.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:17 AM   #6
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Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 International
Get a good battery with 900cca or more in my opinion. Also that yellow looking sticker on your battery thats blocked by some of the wiring tells the date of the battery the letter is the month and the number is the year. For example A is January, B is February and C is March and so on. So if it said F9 that would be June of 2019 the 9 being the last digit of the year. As far as where you get them I get mine through Oreillys or the local Ford house just because they will work with me on pricing and they are very no hassle on warranty.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:38 AM   #7
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,701
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
You seem to have the normal problems with these buses. My batteries died soon after I got the bus. I unhooked them (after taking a bunch of pics of how they were connected in the battery box) and drove to Autozone where they tested them, concluded they were done for, and sold me replacements of the same type. I reconnected them and they've been fine ever since (I really need to get a trickle charger but oh well). Not much later I needed a new starter as well, which is common.

Your rust is normal (for a rusty bus) and not all that bad, but you are going to have to weld some patches around the wheel wells. Check out the early part of my build thread to see what I had to do with my bus. It was rusted much worse than yours and I had to rebuild the entire 8' x 8' section around the wheel wells; yours looks like the cross-members are salvageable, so you'll just need to cut away the bad bits of sheet steel, square up the holes, and weld the patches in place (you could probably also get away with using self-tapping sheet metal screws if you're not set up for welding).

For the rest of the floor, just treat with Ospho or other rust converter until the rust is gone (let the chemicals do the work, as opposed to excessive sanding or sandblasting) then prime and paint. If you seal up the leaks (windows, light openings and apparently your roof panel seams) that caused the floor to rust in the first place, you won't have to worry about your floor rusting any further.

I think $100 a month for a parking spot is perfectly fair - that's what I pay for mine. But you should definitely try to find a place closer than 45 minutes. You won't get much done with that kind of a commute.
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:42 AM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marblecrusher View Post
Get a good battery with 900cca or more in my opinion. Also that yellow looking sticker on your battery thats blocked by some of the wiring tells the date of the battery the letter is the month and the number is the year. For example A is January, B is February and C is March and so on. So if it said F9 that would be June of 2019 the 9 being the last digit of the year. As far as where you get them I get mine through Oreillys or the local Ford house just because they will work with me on pricing and they are very no hassle on warranty.
Wowow thanks. So we got two batteries together and even just on the one, it started right up!

Haven’t been able to wire both batteries in and the cutoff switch, because as soon as I put gloves on and go out to do it, it begins pouring.

Oh, bother.

So yeah I’ve not been able to drive it yet and don’t really want to until we are moving it, since the spot I put it in is very very hard to get in and out of, and requires driving on a neighbor’s lawn (with their consent).

Went to NAPA for the batteries and cutoff switch. Is it just me or are their prices ridiculously gouged in comparison to Autozone, etc.?
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:43 AM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
You seem to have the normal problems with these buses. My batteries died soon after I got the bus. I unhooked them (after taking a bunch of pics of how they were connected in the battery box) and drove to Autozone where they tested them, concluded they were done for, and sold me replacements of the same type. I reconnected them and they've been fine ever since (I really need to get a trickle charger but oh well). Not much later I needed a new starter as well, which is common.

Your rust is normal (for a rusty bus) and not all that bad, but you are going to have to weld some patches around the wheel wells. Check out the early part of my build thread to see what I had to do with my bus. It was rusted much worse than yours and I had to rebuild the entire 8' x 8' section around the wheel wells; yours looks like the cross-members are salvageable, so you'll just need to cut away the bad bits of sheet steel, square up the holes, and weld the patches in place (you could probably also get away with using self-tapping sheet metal screws if you're not set up for welding).

For the rest of the floor, just treat with Ospho or other rust converter until the rust is gone (let the chemicals do the work, as opposed to excessive sanding or sandblasting) then prime and paint. If you seal up the leaks (windows, light openings and apparently your roof panel seams) that caused the floor to rust in the first place, you won't have to worry about your floor rusting any further.

I think $100 a month for a parking spot is perfectly fair - that's what I pay for mine. But you should definitely try to find a place closer than 45 minutes. You won't get much done with that kind of a commute.
Wow homie, thanks a million! By my cross-members being “salvageable,” does that mean there is something I need to do to salvage them?
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:06 AM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 906
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
Glad you're making some progress
From your picture it looks like that battery was not secured to the slide tray. Batteries should be secured to prevent movement and terminal contact that could cause a short and serious damage.
Also please make sure you are familiar with how to connect multiple batteries in parallel or series and determine what you need before accidentally hooking up wrong.
Cheers
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:20 AM   #11
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar1 View Post
Glad you're making some progress
From your picture it looks like that battery was not secured to the slide tray. Batteries should be secured to prevent movement and terminal contact that could cause a short and serious damage.
Also please make sure you are familiar with how to connect multiple batteries in parallel or series and determine what you need before accidentally hooking up wrong.
Cheers
Yeah I’ll have to figure out some way to secure them. Will peek around and see if there’s anything built-in that I can work with ir if I’ll have to engineer something.

As far as the connecting, I was told it’s positive from the bus to positive on battery 1 to positive on battery 2, and negative from the bus to negative on battery 1 to negative on battery 2.

Was planning to use a knife cutoff switch between the positive terminal on battery 1 and the bus. Does that sound right?
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:30 AM   #12
Bus Geek
 
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,701
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
Quote:
Originally Posted by marceloasherq View Post
Wow homie, thanks a million! By my cross-members being “salvageable,” does that mean there is something I need to do to salvage them?
No, by "salvageable" I mean you maybe won't have to cut them out and replace them with angle steel or whatever. Replacing rusted-out sheet is fairly easy; replacing cross-members would more difficult and involved (although not impossible).
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:34 AM   #13
Bus Crazy
 
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,073
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by marceloasherq View Post
Was planning to use a knife cutoff switch between the positive terminal on battery 1 and the bus. Does that sound right?
It is better to put the knife switch on the negative (-) cable between the batteries and bus. If you put it on the (+) side, it can cause a high-voltage spark when you engage or disengage the switch, and that can fry your engine and transmission computers. The same thing applies when connecting your batteries. Connect the (+) first, then the (-) last.


Of course, someone installed the cutoff switch on my bus on the (+) cable. Usually, this will not cause a problem, but the one time it does will cost big $$$ for a new computer.
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Old 06-12-2021, 04:21 PM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
The bus has been running. I pulled it out of my back yard and into the alley. It stopped running right before I got to the street.

It was acting like it did before when my a relay for the ECM popped off. (No warn light).

After some poking around I found the relay. Put it back on. And it’s still acting the same way.

So I’m currently stranded. Not sure if I should try to buy another relay and see if that does the trick. Do relays ever go bad?
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Old 07-19-2021, 09:36 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 48
Year: 2003
Chassis: 30' International IC 3000
Engine: DT466e // Allison MD3060
So, I have what I imagine is a rookie issue.

There are times when I go to drive the bus (after it's been turned on and idling) and it won't go into gear. It's even happened after driving a little bit and stopping. Usually I just wait a few minutes, try again. And eventually it rolls.

So, right now, my patrner and her father brought the bus back to our house to work on it for the week (with special permission from aforementioned landlord who dictated we remove it). But as he (her father) was trying to reverse the bus to pull it into a very tight back alley spot, and it's doing that thing. He describes it as it's like the brakes are still on.

Any ideas what I'm missing?

(Would be amazing if there were a user manual for these things that tells you all the ins and outs of the features, how to operate, etc.)
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