4 Curious Georges' 2001 Saf-T-Liner

[david.dgeorge07]

This is how I’m routing and protecting the 6/3 (plus ground) that feeds my main panel. Used a router to notch the 2x4s then tie straps and silicone to help protect for vibration. The plate is cut from the ceiling panels that came out.


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[david.dgeorge07]

I finally got back around to properly fixing the broken wires in the CAN network. This little plastic tool that I got from Amazon is simultaneously a total rip off and the tool that I needed to get the thing removed. I tried other methods and they did not work. These things are super flimsy and I already broke two of them but thankfully was able to get the most important pins removed so I could do a decent repair job.



Finally getting down to the bitter end of removing all of this vestigial wiring. I’m not gonna lie it was a little bit worrying to be pulling out of these wires past all these other wires wondering if I might accidentally dislodge or otherwise damage a connection and important circuit.



I did discover the easy way to get this panel to a lower rear access. It’s simply too nuts at the top left and right of the panel. Take those out and the entire thing rotates down very easily. The Allen bolts in the corner of each panel are a road to misery. Don’t try it unless you have a different design than mine.



I need to get a shop vac and clean out more junk. There’s also still wiring from the video monitoring system and other stuff that is routed through here that I need to get out but I feel good about getting a decent chunk of it done.



New pile of cable that came from the last section of removal.


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[EastCoastCB]

Nice pile of spaghetti!

[M1031A1]

Hey Grandpa, what's for supper? Electronic Spaghetti with Meat Balls.......

M

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by M1031A1

Hey Grandpa, what's for supper? Electronic Spaghetti with Meat Balls.......

M

It’s good for you. High in copper.


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[david.dgeorge07]

I pulled even more wiring out today. Found a few interesting things.

I pulled out the flasher controller thinking it was the strobe controller. Thankfully it did not seem to be important anymore since my lights all still seem to work afterwards. I know some people have problems when they take out boxes connected to the lighting systems because they were integrated together in a way that you couldn’t easily de-integrate them.

I did find a couple of curious things: first of all my ABS sensor line which came up through the bottom of the panel just dead ended. Clearly goes from the sensor and then nowhere. I don’t get any warning lights after the initial ABS light cycles when you turn the key on. It seems like having ABS would be a good thing generally! I don’t believe I disconnected the line I think it has been disconnected probably since before I got the bus.

Has anybody here ever done troubleshooting with the ABS system? The other thing is that sometime between when I got the bus and when I started working on it a few days ago with the electrical the blower for the driver’s heat and defrost has quit working. So I’m going to have to figure that out.


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[Twigg]

I'm about to get to the ABS system.

The Bendix controller is showing three lights which indicate Front, Left Modulator.

So either the wiring or the modulator are out and need replacing.

From what I am reading, that throws a light on the dash (it has), but the rear ABS should still be working.

[Jdawgsfanasty]

Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07

Does anyone know what the wire is that runs along with the coolant lines from the back of the bus to the front? It is kind of strange.

Two coolant lines and a seemingly random wire all the way from the back to the front. Looked like it was grounded out to part of the plumbing in the back in disappears into the dash in the front.

Any light you can shed is appreciated.

For the heater fan

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[Jdawgsfanasty]

Originally Posted by brokedown

BTW - Walmart sells Rotella in a 5 gallon jug.

When I changed mhy oil (somewhere in Missouri) I bought a plain white 5 gallon bucket from Walmart and took a few shifts o draining into a oil pan that would fit under the bus and then pouring it into the bucket. I left it as a gift for the fine folks at AutonZone under cover of darkness. Ok it wasn't actually dark it was noon but I gently placed it next to their oil recovery tank and said the magic words "thanks fellas" as I drove away.

Putting the new oil in was interesting, My bus is a stub nose, so half the engine is in a doghouse inside the bus. I put down a few plastic trash bags as tarps and used a complex system of dipping a red solo cup into the new oil and then pouring it into the not quite long or wide enough funnel. The additives in the oil are all totally great for your skin and won't cause a variety of cancers at all.

I actually tried to get Walmart to do my oil change. I told them it was just like a F350 only it needd way more oil, but they were really scared to touch a vehicle that they couldn't look up in their computer. Rather than give them years of nightmares I decided do do it myself.

LMAO!!! Love your sense of humor

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[Jdawgsfanasty]

Originally Posted by brokedown

BTW - Walmart sells Rotella in a 5 gallon jug.

When I changed mhy oil (somewhere in Missouri) I bought a plain white 5 gallon bucket from Walmart and took a few shifts o draining into a oil pan that would fit under the bus and then pouring it into the bucket. I left it as a gift for the fine folks at AutonZone under cover of darkness. Ok it wasn't actually dark it was noon but I gently placed it next to their oil recovery tank and said the magic words "thanks fellas" as I drove away.

Putting the new oil in was interesting, My bus is a stub nose, so half the engine is in a doghouse inside the bus. I put down a few plastic trash bags as tarps and used a complex system of dipping a red solo cup into the new oil and then pouring it into the not quite long or wide enough funnel. The additives in the oil are all totally great for your skin and won't cause a variety of cancers at all.

I actually tried to get Walmart to do my oil change. I told them it was just like a F350 only it needd way more oil, but they were really scared to touch a vehicle that they couldn't look up in their computer. Rather than give them years of nightmares I decided do do it myself.

A small transfer pump

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[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07

I pulled even more wiring out today. Found a few interesting things.

I pulled out the flasher controller thinking it was the strobe controller. Thankfully it did not seem to be important anymore since my lights all still seem to work afterwards. I know some people have problems when they take out boxes connected to the lighting systems because they were integrated together in a way that you couldn’t easily de-integrate them.

I did find a couple of curious things: first of all my ABS sensor line which came up through the bottom of the panel just dead ended. Clearly goes from the sensor and then nowhere. I don’t get any warning lights after the initial ABS light cycles when you turn the key on. It seems like having ABS would be a good thing generally! I don’t believe I disconnected the line I think it has been disconnected probably since before I got the bus.

Has anybody here ever done troubleshooting with the ABS system? The other thing is that sometime between when I got the bus and when I started working on it a few days ago with the electrical the blower for the driver’s heat and defrost has quit working. So I’m going to have to figure that out.


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are you sure its an ABS sensor? or is it possibly the CAN wire from the ABS controller which wasnt needed because there's no ECM integration to the ABS module on 95% of these busses.. the ABS controller on my bus has 2 wires goping nowhere just taped off.. turnes out they are CAN wires.. and when installing a connector i can read ABS data from them... codes and wheel speed data and the like.. there was also a single wire which supposedly can go to an ECM that will tell the ECM to de-fuel.. ie if someone stabs both the brakes and the gas pedal it will tell the engine to back off.. my ECM has no such input to it
-Christopher

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

are you sure its an ABS sensor? or is it possibly the CAN wire from the ABS controller which wasnt needed because there's no ECM integration to the ABS module on 95% of these busses.. the ABS controller on my bus has 2 wires goping nowhere just taped off.. turnes out they are CAN wires.. and when installing a connector i can read ABS data from them... codes and wheel speed data and the like.. there was also a single wire which supposedly can go to an ECM that will tell the ECM to de-fuel.. ie if someone stabs both the brakes and the gas pedal it will tell the engine to back off.. my ECM has no such input to it
-Christopher

Oh that is really interesting! It does look like the CAN wire that I repaired at the rear of the bus. It’s a twisted pair. If I understand what you’re saying it sounds like it actually may not be required for the ABS to work properly for this wire to be connected? The wire definitely comes from the tone ring sensor on the wheel and up into the driver side electrical panel. I need to look again but I think there are some other lines that run from that vicinity of the vehicle but the one in question definitely comes right from where the tone ring is on the wheel.


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[david.dgeorge07]

So I have looked a little bit more closely at the ABS system and I don’t think that this wire and sensor are part of it. None of the other wheels have this particular sensor or this particular wire. It looks like it was some sort of add-on and based on the cable type maybe it was designed to give the computer an additional vehicle speed data to it. It doesn’t totally makes sense to me but none of the other wheels have it and the ABS system seems to think that it is working properly.


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[Jdawgsfanasty]

Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07

So I have looked a little bit more closely at the ABS system and I don’t think that this wire and sensor are part of it. None of the other wheels have this particular sensor or this particular wire. It looks like it was some sort of add-on and based on the cable type maybe it was designed to give the computer an additional vehicle speed data to it. It doesn’t totally makes sense to me but none of the other wheels have it and the ABS system seems to think that it is working properly.


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Maybe part of a "black box" system?

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[cadillackid]

ahh. i wonder if the school had a Vehicle management system on it... that doesnt look like a wheel speed sensor to me for ABS.. they may have had a "black box" solutiuon that was standalone, to use for calculating speed / miles per day without having to connect to the ECM to do it.

the wires from that are typically twisted pair as you note, but are not CAN wires..

the wires i spoke of earlier wouldve been coming directly from the ABS controller box itself.

your bus is a thomas, so i dont have any wiring resources for it to see what that mightve gone to or if it is in fact something that should go to the ABS controller.
-Christopher

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07

So I have looked a little bit more closely at the ABS system and I don’t think that this wire and sensor are part of it. None of the other wheels have this particular sensor or this particular wire. It looks like it was some sort of add-on and based on the cable type maybe it was designed to give the computer an additional vehicle speed data to it. It doesn’t totally makes sense to me but none of the other wheels have it and the ABS system seems to think that it is working properly.


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If that's the front left wheel, then it's the sender wire for the speedometer.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Twigg

If that's the front left wheel, then it's the sender wire for the speedometer.

they dont use the speed sensor on the transmission? or read it from the CAN?

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

they dont use the speed sensor on the transmission? or read it from the CAN?

They might have by 2001.

On my 1999 (built '9 the speedo is driven by a sensor on the driver-side front wheel.

I investigated because the speedo is working when it wants to. When it works it is very accurate. It's a known problem. Occasionally the sensor goes bad but more often the connector inside the wheel arch makes intermittent contact.

I haven't been under there yet, but when I do I should find both an ABS sensor and the speedo sender. Some connect to a small electronic box, also exposed, and on some the wire goes straight inside via a connector.

The CAT engine of the period was electronic, but the Cummins was mechanical until sometime between engine build date March 98 to August 98.

[cadillackid]

there were 2 channel ABS systems made... rear wheel only.. a bit wacky.. they would have a single front wheel sensor as a reference sensor.. and then another single sensor on the drive shaft.. idea being that the rear wheels would lock first on a truck.. so they assumed if the front was still spinning and the driveshaft stopped to apply ABS to the rear wheels..

by these years those systems were mostly gone.. that was early 90s type stuff where i saw 2 channel like that.
-Christopher

[david.dgeorge07]

OK, I think this is all starting to make sense. That wire had been initially bundled with wires that went to the surveillance system. My guess is it was part of a system that would show vehicle speed in the event of that footage needed to be reviewed and that was illegally important piece of data. I’m pretty sure my bus gets its speed from the transmission, because when my CAN network was out my speedometer quit working as well.


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