4 Curious Georges' 2001 Saf-T-Liner

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

It doesn't get as cold down here as it does up there john but if I lived where you did I would also be thinking of insulation. But more on me than heater hoses?

But that kinda falls inline with what I was going to say and can be a good preventive measure solution to the problem I was getting ready to bring up?.

A rubber line is tough to support properly and keep the sags and bellies out of it?

And everywhere it is supported is a potential rub point due to vehicle vibration and expansion contraction of the tubing/piping as it heats up and cools down.

The correct clamp to hold it tight when cold is to tight when warm the correct clamp when warm is to big when the line is cold?

But even the correct size clamp to hold the tubing is a rub point that could/can/ will eventually rub through.

Laying it in the rail is an option and johns idea of insulating it and using clamps that fit the insulation will allow it to expand and contract and protect it because of the insulation. Rubber/rubatex/pool noodles that fit your tubing.

But if were me? And for where I intend to be? I personally would run a PVC sleeve the entire length,. Clean/ream the inside ends.secure that and run the rubber inside of that and/or turn a fitting up or down as needed on each end.

And if you are interested and have the room? Research the heat trap idea in piping. You will mostly find it in domestic cold water to heater systems but I also know from oldish school commercial piping experience that it is used in some of the building heating that I work on instead of control valves?

It traps the heat going forward out of the heat source to force the heat rises theory up to the heater and in the return line it traps it from returning to fast to regain the heat from the water that has already passed the exchanger. Which means the heat source doesn't have to work as hard to maintain temps.

Sorry work knowledge? That I would look into if had to deal with David's question.

Normal practice to do it? How can I do it better? How can I do it and make it last the life of my build?

I go the make it last the life route?

I personally would run copper or steel pipe in the frame from A to B.

mitchel

I think I will use a combination of these techniques with the rubber hose I have.

Using pvc past the tires for added protection, then probably will use the pool noodle insulation and galvanized strap with self drillers and frequent attachments to mitigate sagging. Hopefully can find some additional cushion to go between the strap and insulation.

The frame rails are pretty busy. It would be a big job to cut passages and re-route existing wires to make room I think.

[david.dgeorge07]

This is where the lines terminate in front. They truly run the length.



Testing the fit of the PVC, there are air lines and shock mounts to contend with. Had to cut out a section of PVC to accommodate. Then added extra protection on the air line and made sure that everything is well secured so no rubbing could occur.



With PVC , insulation and hoses installed.



This is how I’m securing the bundle. You can see the pool noodle insulation, then old coolant hose cut longitudinally to make a rubber sash, then the galvanized strap.

I’ve flushed the heater core and confirmed that the proportioning valve inside works.

The front 1/3 of the bus is done. Working toward the rear.

[david.dgeorge07]

Does anyone know if these heaters need to coolant to flow one direction vs the other? I can’t find any indication.

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07

Does anyone know if these heaters need to coolant to flow one direction vs the other? I can’t find any indication.

Does your heater have any valves for it near it? You might also find a reducer with a bleeder fitting just before where the hose connects on one line into the heater shutoff valve. That would be the feed but I'm thinking that if you don't have these features, now is the time to add them for future convenience. looking at your pic of the front of the bus now, I see the piping better. No valves to shut off the flows for removal. Bottom pipe would be the feed from the engine I believe.
On another note I saw your hose run pics. Lots of sags, one is too many. Those lines should be almost level from back to front or you will continually get air in those lines, thus no heat.

Very hard to fill those hoses and get the air out run as they are.
There are other methods to run those hoses on a more horizontal plane. You just have to work with what the undercarriage determines or allows you to do.


John

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

Does your heater have any valves for it near it? You might also find a reducer with a bleeder fitting just before where the hose connects on one line into the heater shutoff valve. That would be the feed but I'm thinking that if you don't have these features, now is the time to add them for future convenience. looking at your pic of the front of the bus now, I see the piping better. No valves to shut off the flows for removal. Bottom pipe would be the feed from the engine I believe.
On another note I saw your hose run pics. Lots of sags, one is too many. Those lines should be almost level from back to front or you will continually get air in those lines, thus no heat.

Very hard to fill those hoses and get the air out run as they are.
There are other methods to run those hoses on a more horizontal plane. You just have to work with what the undercarriage determines or allows you to do.


John

Ok, so the one with the lower one is the supply? I can see how shutoff valves would be handy right up by the heater.

As far as sags, my photos are “in progress.” The run very closely mimics the oem run, just under the floor instead of on top. It stays level with the deck except for where it follows the original oem path. The old route had it going over wheel wells where mine stays level there. There is a dip in the front where it goes through the frame (oem route) and at the back where it goes down to the pump and up toward the valve cover.

I can see how this may be difficult to bleed, but I don’t think it could be any more level than it is.

I get the impression that it isn’t going through the heater core, because it bled up to the bleeder valve just fine, but now no flow. The aux water pump is running and as far as I can tell all valves are open.

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07

Ok, so the one with the lower one is the supply? I can see how shutoff valves would be handy right up by the heater.

As far as sags, my photos are “in progress.” The run very closely mimics the oem run, just under the floor instead of on top. It stays level with the deck except for where it follows the original oem path. The old route had it going over wheel wells where mine stays level there. There is a dip in the front where it goes through the frame (oem route) and at the back where it goes down to the pump and up toward the valve cover.

I can see how this may be difficult to bleed, but I don’t think it could be any more level than it is.

I get the impression that it isn’t going through the heater core, because it bled up to the bleeder valve just fine, but now no flow. The aux water pump is running and as far as I can tell all valves are open.

The aux water pump was never mentioned so I thought we were just using the engine's pump only. That def helps matters.
You may have to pull the heater and get it cleaned unless you know of some way else. Add 2 valves and pull it for cleaning. Not sure what else could be blocking it. When the hoses are off try shoving something soft in too feel for a blockage top and bottom. You might dislodge enough to get lucky. Some rad flush sitting in it wouldn't hurt if you can add from the top hose outlet and let it work. Of course it goes without saying a bottom valve would have to be added and closed for this to work. Then a fresh water rinse and you might be ok again.

You can beat this David if anyone can, good luck.


John

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

The aux water pump was never mentioned so I thought we were just using the engine's pump only. That def helps matters.
You may have to pull the heater and get it cleaned unless you know of some way else. Add 2 valves and pull it for cleaning. Not sure what else could be blocking it. When the hoses are off try shoving something soft in too feel for a blockage top and bottom. You might dislodge enough to get lucky. Some rad flush sitting in it wouldn't hurt if you can add from the top hose outlet and let it work. Of course it goes without saying a bottom valve would have to be added and closed for this to work. Then a fresh water rinse and you might be ok again.

You can beat this David if anyone can, good luck.


John

Thanks John!

I really couldn’t tell what was going on so i made up a contraption to help me figure it out. I put this clear tubing in, in place of the heater core:



That way I could visually confirm flow and direction and also purge air with this simple faucet valve.

Once I could see that I was getting coolant up front, but with just a trickle of flow I realized that I was very silly. All of this talk about running the lines level, and forgot that the bus was parked on an incline. Pulled it out to a level section and flow improved. High idle, improved again.

Once I was getting a decent flow and the hoses were hot to the touch, I reconnected the heater core, using the bottom tube as the input, and pushed the oem purge valve until I got fluid.

Then I drove around my very hilly neighborhood in 1st gear keeping it at 1500-2000 rpm to keep the water pump speed up. There are short grades that are about 10% I hoped would help burp the system.

Sure enough, before long I was sweating like crazy as at first warm then scorching HOT air started blowing from the vents!

Need to tidy up a bunch of stuff, but it feels good to have gotten this far!

Thanks for your help John. You were right that bleeding was the kicker.

[BlackJohn]

Good work David, Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. Go celebrate and take a break! Enjoy the heat.


John

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

Were you able to sort out that big breaker tripping earlier on? I may have missed that conversation.
Wondering if it is an aluminum breaker being used with copper conductors.
Should have a marking that says CU/AL if compatible.
I have nothing to offer on the ac mounting sorry.

John

I replaced the breakers with "ignition protected" versions and haven't had a problem since. I think those others have hair triggers. I just finished re-doing a lot of the system and doubled the 2AWG wires to 2x 2AWG. Upgraded to 4 group 27 AGM batts as well.

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

If you ground your house battery via the shunt then you should be OK. In that case also the alternator charge current should register , at least as your battery selector switch is turned to both (parallel) batteries.

Installed 4th battery and refined a few things, including this.

Totally works great! And I found out that if my house batteries are low, my alternator will charge them at a rate of 150 amps! Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing! I guess it is only 37 amps per battery (now that I have 4), but 20 amps is supposed to be a safer value.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. Totally was spot on.

[joeblack5]

You are welcome, Nice, Happy it worked out.


Later Johan

[MrBoogie]

Probably the bus camera system. Might save the wiring as sure it has some DC power on one of those pins can use for USB or something else that needs DC bus power. I never ct out wiring until I'm sure I won't need it alter.

[supersportluvr]

Originally Posted by david.dgeorge07

This is how I marked for the plant BTW. Projector and sharpie at night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great build. What projector did you use for your patterns? Thanks

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by supersportluvr

Great build. What projector did you use for your patterns? Thanks

Thanks!

It was a cheap old projector that was in storage at work.

As long as it is pretty dark most any projector will work. I wish mine had been higher res though. The lines were 1.5” wide so I had to do some intelligent extrapolation to make the lines.

[david.dgeorge07]

Well, it only took 3 days’ labor, but my dash heater resurrection is now complete!

I drove the bus from Chattanooga to New Orleans on Monday and it was SOOOO nice having heat!

Here is a shot of what it ended up looking like.



I ended up painting the PVC black, and running the helper pump power wire sandwiched between the pool noodle sleeves.

If I were to do it again I would use CPVC because it holds up better to heat. I’ve been checking on mine and it has been fine, but it is still the cool part of the year. May and some additional supports to the PVC section for insurance in case it starts to lose rigidity.

Working great so far! Now I need to get the main door just a little less drafty! It’s sort of like trying to get situated in a hot springs where it enters a cold river. One side is scalding and the other freezing!

[Roger_U-2]

Hi David, just wanted to say how very much I enjoyed your build thread. I read all of it including the comments by others and found it to be extremely informative as well as enjoyable. I may or may not end up doing a bus conversion, my wife and I disagree on how great it would be. Regardless the knowledge I gain by reading yours and others paths to the builds will come in handy for something I am certain.
Thank you again for sharing so much and to be honest I am hoping to find new posts keeping us updated on how things are going. I hated coming to the end of your thread, it was like finishing a favorite book.

Roger

[MrBoogie]

Originally Posted by Roger_U-2

Hi David, just wanted to say how very much I enjoyed your build thread. I read all of it including the comments by others and found it to be extremely informative as well as enjoyable. I may or may not end up doing a bus conversion, my wife and I disagree on how great it would be. Regardless the knowledge I gain by reading yours and others paths to the builds will come in handy for something I am certain.
Thank you again for sharing so much and to be honest I am hoping to find new posts keeping us updated on how things are going. I hated coming to the end of your thread, it was like finishing a favorite book.

Roger

Hi Roger,
I am still hooking up the Grey & Clean water tanks & building out the shower/bathroom. I had a little surprise in December full open heart surgery, wound up with a quadruple Bypass & valve replacement so recouping from that & just getting back to work. However that means a new lease on life I was 90% blocked now I have some good years hopefully to play with the bus & take it to Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon area for some work & fun. Check out the FaceBook page https://www.facebook.com/MrBoogiesBus/ I haven't posted in awhile but plan on anew one soon. Here is the Youtube page as well, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3...4hQM-JdoKS9kig

Tell you wife she doesn't have to live in the thing year round but go for it, even if you think you're up to the Tech side of it. You will have fun if you just sell in after a little fun.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by MrBoogie

Hi Roger,
I am still hooking up the Grey & Clean water tanks & building out the shower/bathroom. I had a little surprise in December full open heart surgery, wound up with a quadruple Bypass & valve replacement so recouping from that & just getting back to work. However that means a new lease on life I was 90% blocked now I have some good years hopefully to play with the bus & take it to Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon area for some work & fun. Check out the FaceBook page https://www.facebook.com/MrBoogiesBus/ I haven't posted in awhile but plan on anew one soon. Here is the Youtube page as well, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3...4hQM-JdoKS9kig

Tell you wife she doesn't have to live in the thing year round but go for it, even if you think you're up to the Tech side of it. You will have fun if you just sell in after a little fun.

Glad you're on the mend from your open heart surgery. It's important to do everything the docs tell you on exercise, especially your lung exercises. I had mine done last March and was driving my bus across the country 12 weeks later. 2 years before my Dad wouldn't do his exercises and developed pneumonia due to it and it killed him. get well soon

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by Roger_U-2

Hi David, just wanted to say how very much I enjoyed your build thread. I read all of it including the comments by others and found it to be extremely informative as well as enjoyable. I may or may not end up doing a bus conversion, my wife and I disagree on how great it would be. Regardless the knowledge I gain by reading yours and others paths to the builds will come in handy for something I am certain.
Thank you again for sharing so much and to be honest I am hoping to find new posts keeping us updated on how things are going. I hated coming to the end of your thread, it was like finishing a favorite book.

Roger

Thanks Roger! That means a lot! My wife was also hard to convince, but now that it is done and we have so many great memories she has conceded that it has been a pretty great ride.

I can’t wait til my next excuse to get behind the wheel and more chapters are yet to come!

My podcast that I recorded in the bus is actually now out. I’m on my 6th episode and have about another 20 already recorded but not released.

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by MrBoogie

Hi Roger,
I am still hooking up the Grey & Clean water tanks & building out the shower/bathroom. I had a little surprise in December full open heart surgery, wound up with a quadruple Bypass & valve replacement so recouping from that & just getting back to work. However that means a new lease on life I was 90% blocked now I have some good years hopefully to play with the bus & take it to Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon area for some work & fun. Check out the FaceBook page https://www.facebook.com/MrBoogiesBus/ I haven't posted in awhile but plan on anew one soon. Here is the Youtube page as well, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3...4hQM-JdoKS9kig

Tell you wife she doesn't have to live in the thing year round but go for it, even if you think you're up to the Tech side of it. You will have fun if you just sell in after a little fun.

Glad you are above ground and vertical!