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Old 05-15-2016, 09:37 PM   #241
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Location: Danglebury, Tejas
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Year: 1999
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Chassis: IH 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466E
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Vlad:

I just walked this road with a friend. In his 8.3, the "condensation" was due to a leaky oil cooler. When the cooler had oil pressure, oil did not leak into the coolant, but the minute you turned the engine off and lost oil pressure, coolant entered into the oil system due to the 10 psi or so in the cooling system. Apparently this is not uncommon.

To diagnose the problem you simply get the engine hot, turn it off, and immediately drop the oil filter. Now just watch the filter holes for 10 minutes. If you get a dribble of water after removing the filter, diagnosis is confirmed. Bad oil cooler. You might also look for oil in the coolant. It can go either way.

You could also get an oil analysis done, and that will tell you if the "condensation" is really condensation or coolant.

Caveat: I'm not by any means an 8.3 guru. In fact, this was the first 8.3 I've ever wrenched on, but maybe this response will get you thinking until a real 8.3 guru can reply. I'm worried because I have never seen condensation in a motor, gas or diesel, that wasnt a harbinger of doom. Hope I'm wrong...

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Old 05-15-2016, 10:10 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyCoyote View Post
Vlad:

I just walked this road with a friend. In his 8.3, the "condensation" was due to a leaky oil cooler. When the cooler had oil pressure, oil did not leak into the coolant, but the minute you turned the engine off and lost oil pressure, coolant entered into the oil system due to the 10 psi or so in the cooling system. Apparently this is not uncommon.

To diagnose the problem you simply get the engine hot, turn it off, and immediately drop the oil filter. Now just watch the filter holes for 10 minutes. If you get a dribble of water after removing the filter, diagnosis is confirmed. Bad oil cooler. You might also look for oil in the coolant. It can go either way.

You could also get an oil analysis done, and that will tell you if the "condensation" is really condensation or coolant.

Caveat: I'm not by any means an 8.3 guru. In fact, this was the first 8.3 I've ever wrenched on, but maybe this response will get you thinking until a real 8.3 guru can reply. I'm worried because I have never seen condensation in a motor, gas or diesel, that wasnt a harbinger of doom. Hope I'm wrong...
In one of my previous posts I explained the situation how water "appeared" after rainy days and I was not just scared I could't feel the ground under my feet....

But after dry days water "magically disappeared" and "appeared" again at the end of my trip again after rainy days.

I did send oil for oil analysis and they found no coolant in oil.
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:15 PM   #243
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Awesome!

FWIW, I'm on short rations for Skoolie.net time for the last few days, so I missed that post.

Great to hear you have it covered!
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:33 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyCoyote View Post
Awesome!

FWIW, I'm on short rations for Skoolie.net time for the last few days, so I missed that post.

Great to hear you have it covered!
After checking my some posts I also can't find my water/oil drama.

I was probably thinking about it too much....

Anyway. After first 2 days of driving I checked engine oil in the morning and I was like in that movie: "THIS IS THE END" mixed with a lot of F-words from all languages I speak.....

Just imagine I got stuck in the middle of nowhere with all my stuff, all my tools were buried somewhere I had another 3.5 K miles to drive.....

First I drained about a gallon of oil from the engine and found no water there. But oil dipstick was very ugly looking oily watery grey gunk. So, I put oil back and kept driving. I monitored oil like crazy, drained some every morning and and after finding no water put it back and kept driving. The weather was cold and wet.

After driving for few days through south of US in great warm dry weather water suddenly disappeared even oil dipstick looked normal.

Last 2 or 3 days the weather changed and I got grey ugly looking dipstick again.

When I arrived I took some oil sample and sent it to oil analysis. They found no coolant.
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:42 PM   #245
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This is another topic I will write about in next few days:

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Old 05-21-2016, 10:18 PM   #246
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Cool bus!!!
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Old 05-22-2016, 02:38 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
...
...
The air bags work just great. I still don't have any sophisticated pressure control system but what a difference. I just added about 40 Psi and my front end raised by about 2". Lucky me I added this air bags before my big move... I jumped on few bridges going 60 MPH and with my load I would smash into pavement without this air bags.

Later I will add gauges and valves to control pressure/clearance. Also I am thinking about removing rear springs and convert into air ride... but this will be later on.
Big rigs use automatic leveling valves. Some use two valves per axle, and some use just one. Regardless, the valve is mounted on the frame, and it has a lever that connects to the axle with a long thin rod, with ball-ends.

The valve has a delay feature, so it does not respond to bumps. It responds to ride height over a longer time.

To install from scratch, you would set the vehicle at ride height with jacks, stick a temporary pin thru two alignment holes (valve body and lever), and then tighten the length of the connecting link.

Well equipped trucks have a "dump valve" that lets the air out of the bags for overhead clearance. You could rig something similar for a couple inches extra ground clearance.
But the air bag suspension is designed for a specific ride height. Drivers have fooled with them -- and broken things, like driveshafts.

I'd love to install air ride on Millicent's rear axle. But I wouldn't dream of doing without leveling valves.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:38 PM   #248
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Following this awesome build. Good work vlad
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Old 05-23-2016, 01:44 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess View Post
Big rigs use automatic leveling valves. Some use two valves per axle, and some use just one. Regardless, the valve is mounted on the frame, and it has a lever that connects to the axle with a long thin rod, with ball-ends.

The valve has a delay feature, so it does not respond to bumps. It responds to ride height over a longer time.

To install from scratch, you would set the vehicle at ride height with jacks, stick a temporary pin thru two alignment holes (valve body and lever), and then tighten the length of the connecting link.

Well equipped trucks have a "dump valve" that lets the air out of the bags for overhead clearance. You could rig something similar for a couple inches extra ground clearance.
But the air bag suspension is designed for a specific ride height. Drivers have fooled with them -- and broken things, like driveshafts.

I'd love to install air ride on Millicent's rear axle. But I wouldn't dream of doing without leveling valves.
I added front air bags as assistance to help leaf springs to carry extra load and if needed to help to get extra clearance. Leaf springs are still carrying most of the load.

When I replace rear springs with air bags air bags will be the only springs and then I will think about leveling issue.

I might go easier way : get 4 air gauges and 4 sets of in-out valves. Then I will park the bus on level surface and set it as level as possible. I will see how much difference in pressure I need to have the bus leveled. Let's
say I have 50 psi in left front, 55 psi in right front, 85 psi in left rear, 90 psi in right rear bags. This will be constant difference because bus will be the same (I do understand more fuel, less fuel, more water less water)

Commercial trucks need sophisticated leveling system because they have different load every day, also they have different drivers and they need to save time as much as possible (time=money).
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:25 AM   #250
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Physically installing the air bags in a way that works is the hard part. Ride height system should be comparatively easy.

You could do full mechanical from all 4 corners to fancy electronic stuff to manual gauges like you mentioned.

If I were building it, (and I might!) I would start with a panel controlling each bag independently.

An air pressure gauge, and momentary toggle switch to inflate/deflate the bag, and a ride height linkage gauge, to indicate the actual height of the bag.

It would be pretty useful, straightforward to operate, and entertaining to watch the ride height gauges when stopping, starting, and turning.

Eventually some sort of computer thing could control it I suppose too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I added front air bags as assistance to help leaf springs to carry extra load and if needed to help to get extra clearance. Leaf springs are still carrying most of the load.

When I replace rear springs with air bags air bags will be the only springs and then I will think about leveling issue.

I might go easier way : get 4 air gauges and 4 sets of in-out valves. Then I will park the bus on level surface and set it as level as possible. I will see how much difference in pressure I need to have the bus leveled. Let's
say I have 50 psi in left front, 55 psi in right front, 85 psi in left rear, 90 psi in right rear bags. This will be constant difference because bus will be the same (I do understand more fuel, less fuel, more water less water)

Commercial trucks need sophisticated leveling system because they have different load every day, also they have different drivers and they need to save time as much as possible (time=money).
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:31 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb View Post
Physically installing the air bags in a way that works is the hard part. Ride height system should be comparatively easy.

You could do full mechanical from all 4 corners to fancy electronic stuff to manual gauges like you mentioned.

If I were building it, (and I might!) I would start with a panel controlling each bag independently.

An air pressure gauge, and momentary toggle switch to inflate/deflate the bag, and a ride height linkage gauge, to indicate the actual height of the bag.

It would be pretty useful, straightforward to operate, and entertaining to watch the ride height gauges when stopping, starting, and turning.

Eventually some sort of computer thing could control it I suppose too.
The computer thing you would be referring too is Accuair. I've built bagged show trucks for 5 years haha. Tons of experience in air ride

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Old 05-23-2016, 07:07 AM   #252
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Location: Maple Ridge BC Canada
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Engine: Cummins 8.3; MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb View Post
Physically installing the air bags in a way that works is the hard part. Ride height system should be comparatively easy.

You could do full mechanical from all 4 corners to fancy electronic stuff to manual gauges like you mentioned.

If I were building it, (and I might!) I would start with a panel controlling each bag independently.

An air pressure gauge, and momentary toggle switch to inflate/deflate the bag, and a ride height linkage gauge, to indicate the actual height of the bag.

It would be pretty useful, straightforward to operate, and entertaining to watch the ride height gauges when stopping, starting, and turning.

Eventually some sort of computer thing could control it I suppose too.
Exactly, start with independent air line to each bag 4 gauges and inflate/deflate valves then add the rest of controls as needed.

All independent bags will also help to level the bus at parking, it is easier to push valves than crank jacks....
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:21 AM   #253
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Rated Cap: 84
My rent time in storage is over. I had to move the bus into my driveway. I connected 50' hose and pressure gauges to see the boost pressure. At idle there is no pressure, actually vacuum, at 2000 rpm and going the pressure is just 5-7 psi and max I coud see about 15 psi at 3000 rpm and going uphill. The numbers seems to be low.

I finally fixed the tac . I saw in one of the threads info about how tac works of alternator, but couldn't find spare wire anywhere near alternator. Because my alternator was off I had a good chance to look closer. I found one broken wire (white with a black stripe) but couldn't trace it all the way to speedo. I took a chance and touched it to one of the 3 ac terminals (befote rectifier ), to my surprise tac started to move. Now I can monitor engine rpm.

I will be away for next 2 weeks but will keep digging into boost pressure when I am back.

Does somebody have the same boost numbers? More? Less? Please let me know.
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:25 AM   #254
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Those boost numbers sound about right for a conservative boost configuration. The turbo application as it originally was specified was more about controlling emissions and fuel economy than performance.

Adding more fuel will increase your pressure and EGT. Beyond that, a different A/R ratio would be required.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
My rent time in storage is over. I had to move the bus into my driveway. I connected 50' hose and pressure gauges to see the boost pressure. At idle there is no pressure, actually vacuum, at 2000 rpm and going the pressure is just 5-7 psi and max I coud see about 15 psi at 3000 rpm and going uphill. The numbers seems to be low.

I finally fixed the tac . I saw in one of the threads info about how tac works of alternator, but couldn't find spare wire anywhere near alternator. Because my alternator was off I had a good chance to look closer. I found one broken wire (white with a black stripe) but couldn't trace it all the way to speedo. I took a chance and touched it to one of the 3 ac terminals (befote rectifier ), to my surprise tac started to move. Now I can monitor engine rpm.

I will be away for next 2 weeks but will keep digging into boost pressure when I am back.

Does somebody have the same boost numbers? More? Less? Please let me know.
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:47 AM   #255
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Engine: Cummins 8.3; MD3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb View Post
Those boost numbers sound about right for a conservative boost configuration. The turbo application as it originally was specified was more about controlling emissions and fuel economy than performance.

Adding more fuel will increase your pressure and EGT. Beyond that, a different A/R ratio would be required.
It just feels like turbo is very lazy untill you rev the engine up to 3k.

I used to have 98.5 Ram 5.9L it was spooling toorbo right from idle.

I will still go over everything including intercooler and check for air leaks. I found 1 boot had hole in it.

I asked my wife to follow me and observe the smoke (great husband ) she said it puffs clouds of smoke when I start going and during shifts. I know I will have to add more fuel to get more boost but I don't want my bus smoke like train....

Now I know there is no exhaust restrictions, next air leaks, next different fuel pin. I will go as far as turbo upgrade, but I will get my magic numbers
I am not looking for a big numbers... somevere 300-320 hp will make me happy.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:12 PM   #256
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Do you have an EGT yet? That would prove very useful on high rpm hill climbs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
It just feels like turbo is very lazy untill you rev the engine up to 3k.

I used to have 98.5 Ram 5.9L it was spooling toorbo right from idle.

I will still go over everything including intercooler and check for air leaks. I found 1 boot had hole in it.

I asked my wife to follow me and observe the smoke (great husband ) she said it puffs clouds of smoke when I start going and during shifts. I know I will have to add more fuel to get more boost but I don't want my bus smoke like train....

Now I know there is no exhaust restrictions, next air leaks, next different fuel pin. I will go as far as turbo upgrade, but I will get my magic numbers
I am not looking for a big numbers... somevere 300-320 hp will make me happy.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:17 PM   #257
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Chassis: TC2000 Rear engine
Engine: Cummins 8.3; MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb View Post
Do you have an EGT yet? That would prove very useful on high rpm hill climbs.
Not yet, this is what holding me back from updating fuel pin. I was completely blind without tac and egt. You can easily burn your modified engine.

The problem with egt is the distance of 40 feet.....
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:28 PM   #258
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is your engine - mechanically controlled or already a electronic one? (Boost, Fuel injection)

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Old 06-01-2016, 08:35 AM   #259
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Vlad,
I started re-reading your build again before my boss walked in (oops, better get to work) and had a question: Considering the extensive about of fabrication you did adding underbody storage, the roof raise, body bracing, etc would you consider buying a coach bus and using that as your platform if you did it again? Just curious since the coaches are unibody construction with the full underbody compartments, already have good headroom, etc. Would starting with a coach have saved you any time, money or hassle? Either way I love your build, very inspirational!
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:59 PM   #260
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Engine: Cummins 8.3; MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
The engine is fully mechanical, no electronics. The only electronic thing I can see is throttle position sensor which is used by transmission.
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