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Old 11-01-2014, 01:53 AM   #1
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98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion: 2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideouts

Here is my 98 Bluebird TC2000 Rear engine 84 seats 8.3 Cummins Allison MD3060 conversion:

First a little story:

We are a family of 2 adults and 2 boys 3.5 and 5. We always wanted to travel but for years this was on the bottom of "to do now" list... One day we decided "enough is enough" and started to look for an RV.

Our goal was to find motorhome or travel trailer/truck that we can use on extended trips(3-6 month). After some time we realized that almost all RVs are designed for short trips. Rvs are usually come in 2 groups : family oriented (very basic, very cheap built, one time use) or "old couple" with a small pet oriented (much better quality, but no room for kids, expensive).

We need for our needs:
1. Master bedroom, with a queen bed and a desk for my office.
2. Kids’ rooms with 2 single beds, 2 desks and 2 closets.
3. Kitchen with full size stove, full size fridge.
4. Living room/dining room as big as possible.
5. Good size bathroom with normal size sink, shower and washer/drier.
6. Good towing capacity. Towing off road vehicle/boat.....
7. BUDGET. Can't afford to spend 100+k

One day we found a school bus 300 miles away from our home. The next day I was driving to see it. Few days later yellow monster was trying to find its spot in our driveway....

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Old 11-01-2014, 10:16 AM   #2
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

I'm looking forward to seeing some photos...
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Old 11-01-2014, 11:33 AM   #3
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Welcome to our obsession. You clearly have a plan for how you want to use your bus. Use this site for ideas and feedback. You can't go wrong. One of our cardinal rules on the site. . . .no pictures means it did not happen. Again, welcome.
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Old 11-01-2014, 02:27 PM   #4
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Can't wait to see pics and the story of your build. You are in almost exactly the same situation I am in, and it sounds like your build is almost identical to what I want to do.
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Old 11-02-2014, 01:31 AM   #5
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Here is a rough layout.



There will be 3 slideouts. First slideout is kitchen 13'x24". Second is living room/ dining area 13'x48". Third is a sliding bed in our bedroom.

Please disregard the year stamp 2008. Just like always forgot to change it after batteries replacement
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Old 11-02-2014, 11:16 AM   #6
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

I would suggest that if you are planning to do slideouts PLUS a roof raise, you head over to Ian's board and get some info from the guys who have done (some more than once) on coaches. Ask and they will give you lots of answers. I suggest you search the forum for "slideout" before you start asking questions. There is far more to a slide out than just cutting a hole in the side of the bus. Even with an Eagle (which is easier to put a slide out in than most) to extra bracing is time consuming and expensive. FYI our Blue Bird (86 All American FE) is framed similar to an Eagle... in case they ask.
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Old 11-02-2014, 02:59 PM   #7
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Here are some pictures "Before"....

Just parked it in driveway:





Fun begins.....







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Old 11-02-2014, 03:34 PM   #8
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Because my plan was to raise the roof and have 13' slideouts I had to reinforce openings (I needed to remove 4 posts) before I started to cut posts or the roof could sag

I welded 1/8"x 1.5" flat bar on the inside side of the original channel:

[

Then I welded 1/8"x 4" to make a "box":





I didn't want to weld to roof ribs, so I used steel rivets to attach "box" to ribs:



After I was still thinking about strength of the big openings and decided to add cross brackets. I used 1/8"x2" steel bar. It is riveted with steel rivets and PL premium glue:













After adding this reinforcements I started feeling much more confident about cutting posts and raising the roof....
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Old 11-03-2014, 12:29 AM   #9
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

To raise the roof is not so hard but you have to be prepared. First I made sliding guides. I used 1.5" square tube and 1.25" square tube:
[

And welded this guides to bus posts:



I made 4 of this and this was enough to hold roof while I was raising it.

I used 4 farm jacks to raise the roof. I also screwed 4 2"x12" wood blocks between posts in each corner:


I installed 2 6"x6" fir posts across the bus and screwed them to wood blocks. The farm jacks were pushing 6"x6" posts up. Unfortunately I lost some of my pictures but it is self explanatory.

The roof is up


When I raised the roof I measured how much roof sagged. There was nothing at all. So I can say reinforcement is strong enough.....
I inserted 1.25 square tubing inside each post and riveted them with steel rivets first. Then I welded extra steel. Here is what it looks like:


I didn't like rear door and all rear part at all. First it was all rusty and ugly, second it is flimsy and needed to be reinforced for new 8' roof. Because I want to have slideout that slides from back wall out I made new frame out of 2"x2" square tubing and welded it and riveted it instead of an old rear emergency door:


I extended new frame all the way down to rear bamper:


Here is view from side:


Also I added another steel angle here:


Now I like it. It is all very solid and built like tank.
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Old 11-03-2014, 01:11 AM   #10
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

All school buses have one problem. They have no storage room under the floor. In my case having rear engine bus is very beneficial because there is no exhaust pipe no drive shaft under the floor. This is why I jumped on this model. I wanted to add storage. Originally there were only spare tire box and another box for some junk. Both of this boxes were extremely heavy and not usable. I decided to drop side panels and make a huge 8'x17'x2' "basement" just like other buses have. Here is what it looks like:


This is another view:


I used 1/8" 1.5"x1.5" galvanized angle on sides. The floor is 1/8" aluminum panels. Also there are 1.25" square tubes under aluminum panels. All welded, riveted and glued with PL. I still need to add some threaded rods in the middle to tight it to bus frame. But I will do this later because first I need to clarify what size tanks will be used.
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Old 11-03-2014, 01:26 AM   #11
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

When I cut out side panels for slideouts and figured out that I needed to modify lower part of side panes for basement I realized that there will be almost no original (yellow) sides left. Also I needed to cover holes from removed windows. I decided to remove all steel side panels (yellow ones) and use aluminum to cover the whole bus except the roof and the front. Here is what would be left (marked green):


I started looking for aluminum and lucky me I found a men who used to build trailers for years and finally decided to retire. I bought lots of aluminum for much lower price. It is not perfect but I am not going to build an Airstream polished bus.

I used 1/8" aluminum for all side and back panels:






I did get into few problems:

First: Originally the rear corners were round. For me this was a big problem. I decided to make 2 45° bends and tig weld the rest of rear corners. Before welding:


Back side reinforced:


Done:


The second problem was: I didn't know how to terminate the top of aluminum panels. Originally roof edge is bent up to keep rain from windows. I tried to bend it back....no go. So I cut every corner bent it back and tig welded all back using silicone bronze:


Also I welded extra angle from inside. Here is marked with red marker. Also holes are marked. This holes go through angle,aluminum panel to bottom af the bent roof steel. So the new aluminum panel is "sandwiched":
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Old 11-03-2014, 07:17 AM   #12
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

For your diagonal bracing above the slide out areas, I think you should have used 2X2 square steel tubing. At each slide out You need to use 2X2 square steel tubing diagonal in each space beside the slide out ( |\|/|) tieing all the framing together with diagonal bracing. Then you need to make diagonal bracing in the floor plus beef up the outer edge. Slideouts can really rack a frame.

Of course I am not an engineer. Although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
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Old 11-03-2014, 10:10 AM   #13
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

I'm no engineer either --- but this appears to be one of the most ambitious builds I've seen in a long, long time. And very well thought out and executed. Great looking workmanship. My only question so far regards where the dissimilar metals meet. Aluminum to steel or galvanized? Is there any kind of insulation between them? They do not play well without it and electrolysis can eat them up very quickly. Everything looks so good I just had to ask. Best of luck and please do keep the pix coming.
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:31 AM   #14
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Galvanic (electrolytic) corrosion is something I worry about on Millicent. But so far I have not seen any damage.

Fabulous build, Vlad!
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Old 11-03-2014, 12:17 PM   #15
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Quote:
Originally Posted by lornaschinske
For your diagonal bracing above the slide out areas, I think you should have used 2X2 square steel tubing. At each slide out You need to use 2X2 square steel tubing diagonal in each space beside the slide out ( |\|/|) tieing all the framing together with diagonal bracing. Then you need to make diagonal bracing in the floor plus beef up the outer edge. Slideouts can really rack a frame.

Of course I am not an engineer. Although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
Wait until I get to the bottom frame that holds slideout box. I have 3"x3" square steel tubing outside and 2.5"×2.5" inside bolted to bus frame. All this recessed under the floor and welded to it.
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Old 11-04-2014, 03:05 AM   #16
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
I'm no engineer either --- but this appears to be one of the most ambitious builds I've seen in a long, long time. And very well thought out and executed. Great looking workmanship. My only question so far regards where the dissimilar metals meet. Aluminum to steel or galvanized? Is there any kind of insulation between them? They do not play well without it and electrolysis can eat them up very quickly. Everything looks so good I just had to ask. Best of luck and please do keep the pix coming.
I did think about steel zinc aluminum combination. I am going to use close end stainless pop rivets where I can't reach the back of the rivet. The rest of the rivets will be solid aluminum. Also I am going to use a lot of PL glue when rivet aluminum panels to steel/zinc body frame.

To have galvanic corrosion you need to have dissimilar metals and some electrolyte. Water can be an electrolyte because water usually have some salts dissolved. In my case water will be in contact with SS rivet+ aluminum panel or aluminum rivet+ aluminum panel. Both this combination will not create galvanic corrosion.This will happen outside of the bus. There is not going to be water Inside the wall (I hope) where aluminum meets steel and zinc frame elements.
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Old 11-04-2014, 03:19 AM   #17
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Here are some tools I used:

1. Mig welder. I have Miller 180 mig. Bought it almost 10 year ago simply love it. Most of my steel welds are done with it. I know some people use gasless mig welders. I personally hate them and wire is much more expensive.


2. Tig welder. This is very new to me. I planned to use aluminum and stainless extensively so I had to buy it. This is AC and DC model 185. You have to have AC to weld aluminum. All aluminum welds are done with it. Also I used it for "brazing" roof slope area (used silicone bronze rod).


3.This is a little tip. I have 2 80 cubic feet gas bottles. One for mig gas the other for argon. It costs about 55 CAD to fill one of them. I found rental bottles for 7 CAD rent a month + 85 CAD to fill. The rental bottle is 4 times bigger.... So for now I have this 2 big boys:


4. Rivet removal. I used air chisel to remove all rivets (few thousand ). I tried few chisels and found out that some have many more BPM but the internal hammer is very light and this chisels just buzz and don't cut anything. I found one that have lower BPM but heavy hammer. This chisel cuts steel rivets in 2-3 seconds.

5. Pop riveter. I use HF air/hydraulic one. It still works great. Pulls 1/4" steel rivets just like nothing.


6. Plasma cutter. A must have tool for project like this size especially when aluminum cutting is involved. I use it to cut everything. Cuts 1/4" steel or aluminum like butter. All 1/8" aluminum panels are cut with it (hundreds of feet). Consumables are cheap and last few days. I simply have no idea how to cut 1/8" aluminum without it.


7. Welding protection. I use 3M respirator and 2097 cartridges. Can't smell a thing (even skunk smell goes away )


8. I use flap discs and a grinder to grind down welds where needed. They work well when brand new but soon work very slow especially on aluminum.


Today I bought this flat sand paper disk and a backing plate at HF. It is just about a $1 a piece. Oh men how much time it saves it is just unbelievable. It takes seconds where I had to grind for minutes.... I was always thinking that they are a joke... I was wrong...
For now I will use them instead of flap disks. I will still use flap disks for fine grinding.


BTW I took picture of this disk after I ground a ton of aluminum. There is no even a sign of wear and no stuck aluminum...

Here is a tip how to get steel/aluminum profiles for cheap. I bought 4 sheets of 1/8" 5'x10' galvanized steel at local metal recycle place. I paid $40 CAD a sheet. I took this sheets to metal fabricator. He sheared them and bent profiles I needed. I paid about $120 CAD for bending. Now I have few miles of angles, channels etc for next to nothing. The same I do with aluminum.... The rear corners were bent for me and I welded them.
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Old 11-04-2014, 06:43 PM   #18
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

Hey Vlad --- Looks you have both the tools AND the skills to produce a dream coach. And many thanks for sharing the pix and info.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:31 AM   #19
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

As I said before because of potential galvanic corrosion my plan was to use stainless blind close end pop rivets and solid aluminum. Today after spending few hours searching rivet's specs I decided to make my own experiment.

I took few pieces of 1/8" aluminum, drilled holes and riveted them using solid aluminum rivets and stainless ones I ordered online. I staggered 3 pieces about 1/4", so outside were in the same plane and inside was shifted just like this " |I| " . I pressed them with vi?e to make them look like this: "|||".

Solid aluminum snapped even before all pieces were aligned, almost right away. Stainless didn't snap at all. It deformed itself and all surrounding aluminum and kept holding pieces together. Here are pics. Both after deformation:





First picture shows how much pressure I applied using monster 10" vice.

Also I liked that this rivets have there head like a cup shape where rivet is touching the surface. This can keep some sealant and help to seal this rivet even better:


So, after this experiment I decided to use all stainless closed pop rivets. I know they are expensive but I do everything myself and have nobody around to help me to set solid rivets. My arms are not 5 feet long unfortunately ...

Also it is a good idea to plan things ahead. I know I will need a lot of insulation one day. I kept looking for foam insulation on Craigslist. Today I picked up 43 sheets of 4x8x2" ISO board. The price was 15 CAD a piece wow this was a deal....
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:03 PM   #20
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Re: 98 Bluebird TC2000 Conversion:2 Feet Roof raise 3 Slideo

You have embarked on a great project.

My only concern has to do with weight.

A friend had a front engine Blue Bird All American. I mentioned to him my concern about weight. After taking his bus to the public scales he became concerned as well. He ended up moving the tanks and his gen set because he was starting to get overweight on the steer axle.

On a rear engine bus some of the same concerns would not be as important except for the fact you are adding a lot of weight in the form of slides and basement storage.

The TC2000's used much lighter duty axles than the All Americans. I would hate for you to go to all of the sweat and $$$ on your conversion only to have to find a new front axle to support the added weight.

Good luck and happy trails!
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