'99 BB to become a tiny home...

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

That's also 166% more pressure than required. Plus the angle grinder is electric.

im GUILTY as charged for PUMPING AIR through my air tools lolol

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

im GUILTY as charged for PUMPING AIR through my air tools lolol

Don't think I have gone above 110.

[Brewerbob]

So this happened this weekend.





Apparently I need to use pencil and paper when doing math. Cutting 10 foot pieces into 3 pieces is 3 feet 3 and a 1/3 inches right? No. 10 feet is 120 inches. Divided by 3, that's 40 inches each. They are all close enough except one. I dunno if it was the first or last that I cut but it's way the hell off. Left the last 3 ten foot lengths alone "just in case". I also need to go measure teh rectangle tubing at the windshield. See what I can find that will fit in/over it.

Also need to take a real good look at the rear of the bus. There's a header under the last 3 rows. The ribs don't go all the way to the floor. They come down from the ceiling and end at the window sill. Need to figure out what I'm going to do there. Most likely notch and insert the 1 1/4" tubing.

Hoping this thing will work for the 3/16" solid steel rivets. Gotta go find some scrap steel for a bucking bar. 2" solid square about 4"~6" long oughta do. Ordering the rivets from Grainger. Haven't found anywhere else cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


3/8" Mild Steel Solid Rivet with Round Rivet Head Style, 3/16" Dia., Plain


https://www.grainger.com/product/GRA...id-Rivet-6KE70
$11.15 for 195 x3



3/8" Mild Steel Solid Rivet with Round Rivet Head Style, 1/4" Dia., Plain

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRA...id-Rivet-6KE86
$12.65 for 95 x1

[Brewerbob]

Found these:

https://www.rivetsonline.com/index.php


Shopping Cart (edit)
1 x S0250R00375 - 1/4 solid rivet [S0250R00375]
100 Pieces Total

- Price: 100 PCS BOX - (+$9.90)

$9.90
1 x S0187R00375 [S0187R00375]
1,000 Pieces Total

- Price: 1000 PCS BOX - (+$30.00)

$30.00

Subtotal: $39.90
Estimated Shipping Charge: $0.00
Estimated Order Total: $39.90

[family wagon]

I gasped when you said Grainger was the cheapest you found. There are things I've bought from them because it was the only/most convenient option I could find, but I can't recall a time I bought anything from them because their pricing was good. Maybe things would be better if my employer had an account and I could access their pricing.

Those look like the same rivet part numbers I've ordered from JC/rivetsinstock/rivetsonline. Do yourself a favor though and get some half inch and maybe even a few 5/8. They're cheap enough and if your bus is like mine you'll find a few places where the 3/8 just isn't long enough.

[cadillackid]

wow.. im with famikly wagon only ever bought from graingewr cause i copuldnt get it anywhere else easily...

your bus is an RE.. maybe there is extra support at the rear rows to keep the flex down with the weight of the drivetrain on the overhang?
-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

I've been in the house for 13 yrs and just found out there's a Grainer not 2 miles awway. Anywho, they are cheaper than anything I found on Amazon, Fastenal, and McMaster Car which also surprised the hell out of me.

As for length, I dunno if I have anything that thick. 15 gauge x3 is the thickest I have (2 pieces of sheet metal and the rib). I'm adding a sheet of 18 gauge under it. I will go back thru again and check to see if anything looks thicker. I do need a few blind rivets which I don't have included in there. Should probably replace the 1/4" diameter solids with blind. I've probably only got half a dozen 1/4" solids that I took out. Another half dozen blind.

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

your bus is an RE.. maybe there is extra support at the rear rows to keep the flex down with the weight of the drivetrain on the overhang?
-Christopher

Ends by the wheel wells so I guess so. The window before the engine is the same way but that's about where the tranny is and that sucker is 600 lbs by itself. I'm just going to have to be creative with that area along with the stuff around the front door and windshield.

[family wagon]

There may be a few exceptions where you get 3 or 4 layers of sheet metal stacked up at the corner of a sheet, plus the rib, plus it doesn't all cinch together tight so there's some air between the layers, and maybe it'll have the good fortune of going through one of the horizontal framing members too.. There won't be many, probably only 5 places or so. I re-skinned the whole wall from skirt to roof; I think I've used something like 500 of the 3/8 length, 10 of the 1/2, and 2 of the 5/8. Maybe you'll do better than I did and plan ahead far enough to not even start drilling the hole in places where the 3/8 rivet won't reach through.

I missed your comment about the tail end of the bus earlier. It's cantilevered. The last body-on-frame support is where the main floor ends; the rear bench and the flat area over the top of the engine bay are cantilevered without any support from below. I'll try to find some photos from mine with the exterior skin removed so you can get a better idea of how yours is likely built (my BB is a 2000 and likely the same construction).

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

Ends by the wheel wells so I guess so. The window before the engine is the same way but that's about where the tranny is and that sucker is 600 lbs by itself. I'm just going to have to be creative with that area along with the stuff around the front door and windshield.

are you going to raise all the way windshield to windshield? opr have a transition at the front , leave the front row or 2 short?
-Christophjer

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by family wagon

There may be a few exceptions where you get 3 or 4 layers of sheet metal stacked up at the corner of a sheet, plus the rib, plus it doesn't all cinch together tight so there's some air between the layers, and maybe it'll have the good fortune of going through one of the horizontal framing members too.. There won't be many, probably only 5 places or so. I re-skinned the whole wall from skirt to roof; I think I've used something like 500 of the 3/8 length, 10 of the 1/2, and 2 of the 5/8. Maybe you'll do better than I did and plan ahead far enough to not even start drilling the hole in places where the 3/8 rivet won't reach through.

I'm not planning on adding any new rivets. I'm going to use the existing rivet holes and replace all of those. The new skins will get new rivets of course but that will only be the 14 gauge new rib extensions and the 18 gauge sheet metal. If I have even 50 rivets that don't want to seat at 3/8ths, I'm not going to worry about it now. I'll wait until I know how many of what I need.

I missed your comment about the tail end of the bus earlier. It's cantilevered. The last body-on-frame support is where the main floor ends; the rear bench and the flat area over the top of the engine bay are cantilevered without any support from below.

Sounds exactly the same.

I'll try to find some photos from mine with the exterior skin removed so you can get a better idea of how yours is likely built (my BB is a 2000 and likely the same construction).

That would be awesome.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

are you going to raise all the way windshield to windshield? opr have a transition at the front , leave the front row or 2 short?
-Christophjer

None of the above. I finally saw a Youtuber that is raising the rear the same way I am. Left a comment for him but no idea if he even bothers replying to comments or not. I'm raising the rear of the bus under the emergency hatch and side windows. I want to keep those and move them up with the roof. The mattress for the bed would cover them as is. I want to keep the viewing and even be able to open it. I might reconsider the first time a flock of bugs get in. Add a screen somehow later.

For the front, I'm separating just above the windshield. There's a row of rivets along there. The windshield has a "dash" above it that is part of the windshield framing. All of that will stay put and I'll open it from the seam just above that. 100 rivets across that piece, one per inch. And the seam is put together with a thick smear of tar and/or chalking. I'll run the heat gun across that and use either the putty knife or the air chisel to get it to break loose. I've gone along the window frame with the air chisel to make sure everything will separate once I cut the ribs. And made sure I'll be able to get the new skin under that row of rivets. Even so, there's going to be a fair amount of cussing when it doesn't want to go easily.

[family wagon]

Found 'em. They're on my photobucket.. oh, wait.

A view of the right rear from the outside:


Right rear from the inside (in the extreme lower right corner of the image the edge of the rear bench surface is just barely visible):


Fuzzier version of the first picture, this time with notes on how I made the cuts when I raised mine:


Having the exterior skin removed surely made this approach easier, but you may be able to pull it off anyway. That cantilevered beam had (I think) two 5/8-inch long stitch welds to the flange of the hat channel at the right side of the photo. Those would be tricky to cut from the inside. Read on, though; this is probably where yours and mine will diverge.

The limited notes on the photo aren't terribly clear. I cut the rear-most hat channel where shown to preserve a stub above and below the cut so I could use a piece of the extension channel there. The second rib I cut where it was welded to the top of the cantilevered beam. There didn't seem to be any reason to cut that one in the middle when I could just cut it at its end instead. In my bus the third rib doesn't come down to the beam because it had transit (not school) windows. I'm interested to know whether in yours this third rib is detailed just like the second one. The fourth rib goes all the way down to the chair rail but it's in the wheel arch a little bit. You can see in the photo where I cut that one at its base. With yours not having its exterior skin removed it might make more sense to cut the 4th rib in a different place.

Thinking about that 4th rib and its weld to the cantilevered beam piece a little more... Probably in your case it would be better to cut that 4th rib above the beam in the window area. You're doing your raise in the window area, right? This 4th rib from the rear is probably the place where that would start.

[cadillackid]

theres lots of cussing with ANY and ALL bus projects.. not just roof raises..

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by family wagon

In my bus the third rib doesn't come down to the beam because it had transit (not school) windows.

Ah, that's what's "wrong" with your bus. Was wondering why there was a missing rid. The rest looks the same as mine best I can tell.

I'm interested to know whether in yours this third rib is detailed just like the second one. The fourth rib goes all the way down to the chair rail but it's in the wheel arch a little bit. You can see in the photo where I cut that one at its base. With yours not having its exterior skin removed it might make more sense to cut the 4th rib in a different place.

Thinking about that 4th rib and its weld to the cantilevered beam piece a little more... Probably in your case it would be better to cut that 4th rib above the beam in the window area. You're doing your raise in the window area, right? This 4th rib from the rear is probably the place where that would start.

My plan, we all know how those go, is to cut a slot in the cantilever and the rib in the middle of the window like the rest of the "normal" ribs. Slide the square tube down the slot and weld it back. From the looks of your photos, the vertical headers are just really wide C channel. They are "hollow" if you will. Cut the lip of the header and the square tubing will slide right down. The very last rib may still be a problem. I'm guessing nothing passes thru the "deck" over the engine. Maybe just cut the tubing shorter? Currently I'll have 12" of new tubing top and bottom that fits perfectly into the OEM hat.

[Brewerbob]

Oh also in the plan...

I want to cut the ribs, get the roof up, and the new skins on all in the same weekend. Definitely doable by other people but 1) nothing has gone that fast on this bus 2) winter daylight hours 3) limited helpers.

Even if I only get a dozen rivets per full sheet of metal in, it'll look "complete". I'm in an RV storage lot on base and one of the terms is the vehicles have to remain operable. Aside from not wanting to cover the bus with tarps, it needs to stay driveable. I'm already ignoring the rule about not using their electricity. Everything I do has to be done thru a single 15 amp GFI going thru 100' of extension cord.

I noticed yours is parked in a barn.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

There's lots of cussing with ANY and ALL bus projects.. not just roof raises..

It seems the way of the vehicle gods. What do you mean I have to pull the engine to replace the oil pan?!?!!!

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by family wagon

You're doing your raise in the window area, right? This 4th rib from the rear is probably the place where that would start.

I plan on cutting the windows where the little circle brackets hold the window frames in. Rib 1 cut at the high one, rib 2 low, rinse and repeat. Stagger the fault line. I don't think I can do it exactly at where the top screws are as there are bolts less than 12 inches up from there that go thru the hat channel. I could take those out and then drill holes thru the new tubing and put them back but that's a lot of extra time. I suppose I could take the bottom bolts out ahead of time. Not sure if I have to remove both or just the bottom. Hopefully just the bottom then I could go back around much later drilling all of the holes from the interior while the outside of the bus "looks done".

[Brewerbob]

The yellow area may have an extra piece or two of bracing. Light permitting, I'll take pics to compare.

[family wagon]

The interior skin is removed from yours so you have visibility to the 3rd rib, right? I'd guess that one would land on top of the horizontal C-beam in the same way the 2nd rib does. I haven't seen a true skoolie body at this level of disassembly before, but if it's built like mine with the horizontal C-beam extending from the rear to the 4th rib, I'd avoid modifying the horizontal beam. To me it looks like it operates like a see-saw: the fulcrum is the extra-wide "post" at the base of the 3rd rib; the 4th rib holding the front end of the beam/lever down is what supports the weight at the back end of the beam. Though the web of the beam probably gives most of its strength, the top and bottom flanges are important too.

The rear-most rib does extend below the deck; it's integrated into the framing around the radiator cover doors and the engine bay door.

You mentioned the through-rib bolts in the headers above the windows. Does the skoolie body have C-profile headers/beams below the windows like mine does? Similar bolts fasten these below-window headers through the hat channels. Even if the skoolie body doesn't have those, it probably will have bolts (3, I think) that go through the rear-most rib into the end of the cantilevered beam. These bolts might interfere with plans to slide parts down the inside of the hat channels.

Sadly, mine has spent a great deal of time shut inside. I dragged out the roof raise.. the re-skin, really.. over a period of about 28 months. It's still not fully done but at least it's driveable (in dry weather.. it's still not painted!).

[Brewerbob]

Here's a pic of mine. I have two extra little "blocks". No idea why they bothered. l get that it's generally not a good idea to go messing with flanges or I beams but if it gets welded back? I could weld stuff on the square tube and make it a "t" (lower case) so when it passes thru it also supports left and right.

I guess if I split that window in the center, it would leave 12" above and below the cut so I don't have to go messing with the C channel. I can't cut the windows at the top screw. It only measures 7" from screw to the first bolt. Even with both bolts out, the 12" of tubing would go beyond where the roof curves inward. I really don't want a single fault line tho. Maybe I'll do center and bottom sill.



Here are the bolted in window headers. same as your I suspect. Two bolts on both sides. Driver's window and door have the 1/4" rivets and a much heavier header.

[family wagon]

Agreed, it looks and sounds like the construction is very similar to mine. My guess is that the two blocks or plates are there to help avoid the C profile crushing. They probably make it perform more like a fully boxed or square tube profile.

Originally Posted by Brewerbob

When you get those two windows out I think you'll find the end of the rib is welded to the top of the C beam, or that a pair of L brackets are welded to the sides of the rib and bolted down into the C beam (IIRC mine had some of both styles in various places). For this one location I wouldn't cut the rib at all. Instead I'd disconnect it from the top of the C beam, do the raise, and insert the new tube so that it splices with the hat channel above and attaches to the C beam below in the same way that the factory channel did originally. IMHO that yields plenty of material above for the splice and makes a good-as-original connection to the C beam without any need to cut through it.