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Old 05-10-2017, 07:39 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Is it legal to have lights/blinkers that high up?
Yes. Or so I was told. You can have as many parking and brake lights as you like. I didn't specifically ask about turn signals but if turn signals aren't allowed, I'll swap wires and then they will be parking light s in the front too.
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:46 AM   #22
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Woot woot!!! Just got the phone call that my bus passed its safety inspection. Because MD cares about its citizens (might be a little sarcasm there), they require a ONE TIME safety inspection when a vehicle changes ownership. If a car is 100 yrs old but has never been titled it doesn't count. If the car is 100 yrs old and you owned it the entire time in never needs another one. With all of the stalled vehicles and car fires in the traffic report daily, I've no idea why they don't get rid of it or switch to an annual inspection.

For emissions, MD loves unicorns. If you have a diesel, you are exempt. If you have historic plates (>20 yrs old), you're exempt. Who are the two biggest polluters? Old cars and diesels.

Anywho, it works in my benefit as my TDI and bus are both exempt and the RX-7 is historic. Now I can go down to DMV and get a permanent sticker. I had a one month temp tag that expires today. The tag sticker goes to the end of the month tho.
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Old 05-11-2017, 11:24 PM   #23
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Why are you rerunning wires? You should be able to splice and join the wires right at your dash. Also, to make things easier, I kept my front amber flashers and tied them into my turn signals. I swapped my flashing reds in the front to bright fog lights for wilderness camping. The rear I kept exactly as they are but hooked the reds up with my brakes and amber with my turn signals. It worked great and only took about a half hour.

PS - I had an electrician go over the gauge of wire on the turn signals and with the current it's carrying he was convinced I didn't need to run new wires.

Looks great.
What fog lights did you use for your flasher? I want to replace mine as well.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:49 AM   #24
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Hey, just thinking about storing ceiling panels for possible use elsewhere.... Ok, another question just popped in my head....

1. Are the ceiling panels painted both sides?
2. Any rust problems just tossing them outside in the weather?
3. What gauge are they and what gauge is the floor? If I can just relocate the ceiling panels straight to the floor, I've got double the thickness.

Continue that line of thought and fill in whatever I'm missing. Plug all the holes in the current floor or convert and paint them really well and leave them as drain holes? <-- Assumes an air gap between OEM floor and new ceiling panel floor. Make a great vapor barrier. Then insulate on top of ceiling floor. Buy a sheet or two of the PVC "plywood" and cut it up into furring strips. Even spacing and no thermal bridge thru direct content or welds.

Ok this got stupid long, I'll just post it and get everyone's input.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:54 PM   #25
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Bob, you are really getting confusing with that ceiling floor talk.

1. It's difficult to say, considering how widely materials differ between manufacturers.

2. My ceiling panels have been sitting outside in the snow all winter and show no signs of rust on either side (painted or unpainted). I was afraid they'd rust so I've avoided using them for anything, beside the fact that they're perforated.

3. Don't know.

4. Why would you want to put all that weight back inside your bus? Insulation good, thermally conductive materials not so good.

I'd like to have several windows covered with the perforated metal to act as bug and privacy screens as needed. The perforations are small enough to stop those huge Alaskan and Canadian mosquitos, and flies in the third world states of the US.
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
Bob, you are really getting confusing with that ceiling floor talk.

1. It's difficult to say, considering how widely materials differ between manufacturers.

2. My ceiling panels have been sitting outside in the snow all winter and show no signs of rust on either side (painted or unpainted). I was afraid they'd rust so I've avoided using them for anything, beside the fact that they're perforated.

3. Don't know.

4. Why would you want to put all that weight back inside your bus? Insulation good, thermally conductive materials not so good.

I'd like to have several windows covered with the perforated metal to act as bug and privacy screens as needed. The perforations are small enough to stop those huge Alaskan and Canadian mosquitos, and flies in the third world states of the US.
1. Just explained that to ECCB. Damn things oughta be the same. Or at least consistent. If your ceiling is 18 and floor is 14, then mine should at least be 16/12 if not exactly the same as yours. It's the way my mind works; don't argue it. It bites me in the a$$ a lot.

2. Good. Need to talk to a co-worker about tossing it in his shed.

3. ---

We've got different buses then. I only have the first 2 sections that are perforated. Everything after that is solid sheet metal.

As for the confusion with floor/ceiling, ... my OEM floor is rusty and needs patched. Instead of turning it into a qult work looking job, why not cover the whole damn thing over again? The ceiling panels are longer than the bus is wide so width wise they'll work. They cover the entire length of the bus except for the first 2 which as mentioned are perforated. So they would work lengthwise as well. Tell me why I shouldn't reskin the entire floor.

So, assuming I'm reskinning the entire floor, it's a whole lot easier to leave the existing floor there and slap a new one right on top of it. That being said, it is better to weld the new sheet metal (the old ceiling) directly to the OEM floor or to leave x/y an inch (fill in the blank with the right number; 1/4", 1/2", 1") between the two? I don't like the idea of one sheet right on top of the other because the smallest of gaps will lead to pockets of condensation. It should be attached every 6 inches (or whatever) or there should be a sufficient gap of 1/4"~1/2" so it can breathe. Treating all of the rust and painting the snot out of the OEM floors with all of its holes would let water get in when driving in the rain. But it would also let condensation evaporate when not driving in the rain. H.D. sells "plywood" made of PVC (looks like the kitchen cutting board stuff). Get a sheet or 3 of that, chop all of it up into strips and put it between the old floor and the new floor. Everything is now spaced EXACTLY 1/2" apart. Stuff also comes in other thicknesses so 1/4" if that's "right".

Now I have a subfloor that keep most of the water and dirt out. I have a second subfloor that is completely water tight AND a very nice uniform airspace for a vapor barrier. On top of the second metal skin floor does the foam board, radiant heat, real floor.

Hopefully I don't become a nutjob like Nat but I do wonder why we are putting plywood back in the bus. Build right off the metal floor and glue the final floor to the foam/foam board. 3/4" ply will add more weight than keeping the ceiling panels and using them as a second metal floor.

Make more sense now?
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:36 PM   #27
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I understand you. You're wanting to put your ceiling panels on the floor. It's been done before and I don't remember how it was fastened down, but I believe it was metal on metal.

Personally I think you said it when you mentioned the metal being more surface area for condensation. I don't have any proof of that but it just seems to make sense that any exposed metal will gather condensation from the air.

Remember that the same type of metal isn't supposed to have any electrolysis interactions. I can understand reusing the sheet metal for patching up the floors. It makes more sense than going out and buying more steel to patch the floors with. Even covering the entire floor with ceiling panels. I'd want to put something between the floor and the ceiling panels to eliminate the gap. It could just as easily be a layer of rigid insulation taking up air space between the sheets of metal.

I don't think it's a bad plan. I think you may be doing something that hasn't been done before. You've got good sense for construction so I'd say go with your gut.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:09 PM   #28
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I understand you. You're wanting to put your ceiling panels on the floor. It's been done before and I don't remember how it was fastened down, but I believe it was metal on metal.
Metal to metal just sounds like a bad idea. I've got .003" gap that's going to vibrate, pick up some funky harmonic, or just wear the ever loving hell out of each other.

Quote:
Personally I think you said it when you mentioned the metal being more surface area for condensation. I don't have any proof of that but it just seems to make sense that any exposed metal will gather condensation from the air.
Wasn't think MORE surface area but that helps too.

It's only going to condense on the cold side of the metal. That's the bottom of the new skin. Dripping into the 1/4"~1/2" void. Or the top side of the OEM floor which is also in the void.

It's the making it almost water tight that worries me. Without making it completely air tight and vacuuming the air out, there will always be condensation in there. At least with all the bolts holes from the seats, it'll get a chance to dry out.

Quote:
Remember that the same type of metal isn't supposed to have any electrolysis interactions. I can understand reusing the sheet metal for patching up the floors. It makes more sense than going out and buying more steel to patch the floors with. Even covering the entire floor with ceiling panels. I'd want to put something between the floor and the ceiling panels to eliminate the gap. It could just as easily be a layer of rigid insulation taking up air space between the sheets of metal.
Ceiling and floor are both steel so good on dissimilar metals. The filling of the gap (see above) worries me. Spray foam would be 100%. Foam board will leave a gap or pocket some damn where.

Quote:
I don't think it's a bad plan. I think you may be doing something that hasn't been done before. You've got good sense for construction so I'd say go with your gut.
Anyone one know a mech eng with a minor in metallurgy who dabbles in architecture? A side of electrical and plumbing wouldn't hurt either.


On a semi-related note, one of the numb-nuts at work wanted us to write up job descriptions based on what we do and all of the associated skills that would be good to have. I went straight to the bus (in no particular order)...

1) Mech Eng.
2) Sheet metal fabricator.
3) Diesel mech.
4) Electrician.
5) Plumber.
6) Painter.
7) Interior designer.
Cabinet maker.
9) Welder.
10) OTR truck driver.

I'm sure with time, another 10 could be added.

Someone tell me again why the hell we think turning a school bus into a house is a good idea. You don't have to be crazy but it sure helps.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:39 PM   #29
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You forgot these;

manuel laborer
glazier
fiberglass
car wash
tire changer occasionally
window cleaner frequently

We do this because buses are real big boy toys that we justify with comfortable camping trips.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:55 AM   #30
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You forgot these;

manuel laborer YES
glazier ???
fiberglass Not yet.
car wash Once so far, next will be pressure washing the inside.
tire changer occasionally Knock on wood, not yet. Lost the socket already, grrrr.
window cleaner frequently Not yet.

We do this because buses are real big boy toys that we justify with comfortable camping trips.
What are you glazing and fiberglassing?
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:14 AM   #31
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Finally got around to checking if Visio would work for drawing a floor plan. SOOOOOOOooooooooo much better than Google Sketchup. That damn thing was going to drive me to drink (more).

Thoughts, concerns, complaints?

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Old 05-18-2017, 10:23 AM   #32
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Someone broke my driver's side front windshield. Not going to replace it myself, but I'm still paying for it.

My front and rear caps on this bus are fiberglass. If you damage the fiberglass caps you'll quickly learn how to work with fiberglass.

Look at how many skills you've picked up since you got your bus? Now you're in the demolition phase and you're still picking up new skills.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:09 AM   #33
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Someone broke my driver's side front windshield. Not going to replace it myself, but I'm still paying for it.

My front and rear caps on this bus are fiberglass. If you damage the fiberglass caps you'll quickly learn how to work with fiberglass.
Ah ok. I don't think I have any fiberglass at all on my bus. The nose and rear are all metal, baby. The nose has two vertical "seams". The top 3 or 4 inches has a weld bead. It looks like it was supposed to be replaceable but then someone welded it. It's weird.

Quote:
Look at how many skills you've picked up since you got your bus? Now you're in the demolition phase and you're still picking up new skills.
Haven't picked up any new ones yet. Well, not quite true. Without the bus I probably wouldn't have bought the MIG tho I have always wanted to learn to weld since HS.

Now if I could just perfect some of those skills.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:26 PM   #34
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How did you connect to the directionals? I have been trying to find a way to connect the outer top lights to the directionals - and I can't find where the directional wires are hiding.


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The front flashers have now been turned to double turn signals. The rears are now double tail lights.

The current bulbs are 7" double filament bulbs. I think one of the rears had both lit and it was getting very warm as was the dash fuse box. Went from a 15 amp fuse to a 25 amp before it would hold. On order is a 10 pack of both 1156 bulbs and sockets. I could go LED but at least this way I only have to buy 1156s which should be available EVERYWHERE. Should still drop the current load back to something reasonable.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:58 PM   #35
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How did you connect to the directionals? I have been trying to find a way to connect the outer top lights to the directionals - and I can't find where the directional wires are hiding.
I am certain they are in that junction box outside under the driver's window somewhere. I was just going to run a new wire up the column since it would be easier than messing with the box.

Ha, just fishing a wire thru was a HUGE PITA but I got it and just spliced it in with the wire at the bulb. For the rears, since I have an RE bus, there's a bulkhead between the engine and the wires at the top. The rears are parking lights now and I just moved the terminals within the junction box. Far easier than running wires. You'll need these.

I might go back and "fix" it tho it's working just fine as is.
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:46 PM   #36
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The 5 pack of flapper wheels arrived yesterday. Good thing I found more rust. I'm going to have to replace the entire section. The little hole in the foreground is where the seat belt bolt belongs. The bigger hole next to it ought not be there. I foresee some plate steel and sheet metal replacement in my near future. Come to think of it, I might as well replace the seat belts themselves. They don't take kindly to UV and these are the OEM belts. Racing belts are good for 5 yrs. These are almost 20.

The wrench used to be straight. After this I decided to go ahead and cut the bolts. Grrrrr.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:55 PM   #37
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Seems you, like most of us, are embarking on not just a bus build, but a bus restoration!
Both mine feel like the VW restoration projects I got into as a kid, only much BIGGER.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:09 PM   #38
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The 5 pack of flapper wheels arrived yesterday. Good thing I found more rust. I'm going to have to replace the entire section. The little hole in the foreground is where the seat belt bolt belongs. The bigger hole next to it ought not be there. I foresee some plate steel and sheet metal replacement in my near future. Come to think of it, I might as well replace the seat belts themselves. They don't take kindly to UV and these are the OEM belts. Racing belts are good for 5 yrs. These are almost 20.

The wrench used to be straight. After this I decided to go ahead and cut the bolts. Grrrrr.
taking notes... I have a similar rust infestation in the same spot around the same hole.

I'd planned on wire wheeling it then cutting out the weak bits and welding a plate down. Because it is behind the drivers seat and the belt anchor is so close, you might want to keep that area reinforced.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:32 AM   #39
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taking notes... I have a similar rust infestation in the same spot around the same hole.

I'd planned on wire wheeling it then cutting out the weak bits and welding a plate down. Because it is behind the drivers seat and the belt anchor is so close, you might want to keep that area reinforced.
So, yesterday I took out a 2"x4" section in an exploratory surgery. The good news is there is a framing member under the driver's seat and about 2 or 3" aft of the seat belt hole. The patch doesn't have to be very bug at all. And as bad as it looks there, the metal is still fairly thick

Being the seat belt for the seat (the actual seat belt is bolted to the seat) I want to make it thicker hence the surgery. I'll be sure to post what I come up with. I'd like to use 1/8" (or thicker) plate but I don't think I want it to stick up above the existing floor. Not much room for bolts under the bus either. I might just get a "big" plate and bolt it to the little cross members under teh bus and then use longer bolts thru that.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:55 AM   #40
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Seems you, like most of us, are embarking on not just a bus build, but a bus restoration!
Both mine feel like the VW restoration projects I got into as a kid, only much BIGGER.
The hole next to the seat belt bolt is about 2x as big as any of the holes in the back of the bus. The heater hoses all look like they were rerouted. The one pictured is the worst of my rust. I'm not even going to patch the other holes. Just convert, paint, and spray foam to seal.

More rust than I expected prior to ripping up the plywood but none of it really bad (like Nat's... holy hell). So, I think I done good on this bus buy.
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