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Old 08-23-2018, 02:26 PM   #1
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A riveting discussion......

Hey Everyone,

I am rivet shopping and have figured out that I am going to need both 1/4 and 3/16 inch rivets as some of the rivet holes were enlarged a bit while removing old rivets.

I will also need them in two grip ranges, #64 (.125-.250") and #64 (.020 to .125), depending on the layers being joined.

The I found this:
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/41135

It claims a .062" - .250" grip range.

It appears to be an odd duck. Should I have any concerns using these? Any special tools?

Edit: I just noticed that they are not "sealed" like the other ones I was looking at. Will a dab of seam sealer be in order for each rivet or do I need to stick with sealed end rivets?

Thanks.

S.

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Old 08-23-2018, 02:30 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
Hey Everyone,

I am rivet shopping and have figured out that I am going to need both 1/4 and 3/16 inch rivets as some of the rivet holes were enlarged a bit while removing old rivets.

I will also need them in two grip ranges, #64 (.125-.250") and #64 (.020 to .125), depending on the layers being joined.

The I found this:
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/41135

It claims a .062" - .250" grip range.

It appears to be an odd duck. Should I have any concerns using these? Any special tools?

Edit: I just noticed that they are not "sealed" like the other ones I was looking at. Will a dab of seam sealer be in order for each rivet or do I need to stick with sealed end rivets?

Thanks.

S.
You want closed end.
Try this place- https://rivetsinstock.com/rivets/bli...nd-rivets.html

I got a bunch from them. Great products.
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:45 PM   #3
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They make a rivet backer, basically a washer the size of the shaft to put on the back side when your hole is slightly large.
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:48 PM   #4
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They make a rivet backer, basically a washer the size of the shaft to put on the back side when your hole is slightly large.
sorry, man. I think you've missed the point entirely.
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:02 PM   #5
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sorry, man. I think you've missed the point entirely.
You just like criticizing to be criticizing.
He mentioned needing to use 2 different size rivets because some of the holes were wallered out. I was giving him an option that was EXACTLY ON POINT.
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
They make a rivet backer, basically a washer the size of the shaft to put on the back side when your hole is slightly large.
Thanks Marc.

I saw those and Google'd them. The info I saw made it look like you had to use a special rivet with the backing washer. Is this correct?
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:08 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
You want closed end.
Try this place- https://rivetsinstock.com/rivets/bli...nd-rivets.html

I got a bunch from them. Great products.
Thanks CB.

I got some samples from them and then found what appeared to be a better deal semi-locally. Turns out it is not such a good deal if they are the wrong rivets
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:10 PM   #8
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Thanks CB.

I got some samples from them and then found what appeared to be a better deal semi-locally. Turns out it is not such a good deal if they are the wrong rivets
I got a bunch of regular pop rivets in plain steel 1/4" from Grainger last year for $40 per 1000!
Got their last thousand!
They're great for anything that doesn't require a 100% perfect guarantee of a watertight seal.
I only wanted 100 or so, but the price was RIGHT!
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
Thanks Marc.

I saw those and Google'd them. The info I saw made it look like you had to use a special rivet with the backing washer. Is this correct?

No, the ID of the washer(backer) is the size of the rivet shaft. So as you pull the mandrel out it pinches the washer between the work surface and the mandrel ball. Buy backer specific to the rivet you are using.

The only rivet change that might be needed is a longer rivet if the ones you have aren't long enough for the 2 sheets and the washer. We often use the head drilled off an old rivet as a backer, they are free.
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:33 PM   #10
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https://blog.baysupply.com/the-diffe...and-their-uses

Closed end vs plain rivet


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Old 08-23-2018, 04:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
No, the ID of the washer(backer) is the size of the rivet shaft. So as you pull the mandrel out it pinches the washer between the work surface and the mandrel ball. Buy backer specific to the rivet you are using.

The only rivet change that might be needed is a longer rivet if the ones you have aren't long enough for the 2 sheets and the washer. We often use the head drilled off an old rivet as a backer, they are free.
Thanks for the details.

Unfortunately, almost all of my exterior rivets were bucked so the heads were destroyed in removal.
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Old 08-23-2018, 04:08 PM   #12
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Got it.

Thank you!
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Old 08-23-2018, 05:07 PM   #13
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Thanks for the details.

Unfortunately, almost all of my exterior rivets were bucked so the heads were destroyed in removal.
If you don't have that many that are over sized, drill the heads off a few of the ones you have instead of buying a box of the larger size.
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:13 PM   #14
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I just bought a few rivets from fastenal to finish a panel and holy cr** they were high 100 self seals 50 1/4" 50 3/16" were $66.00 tax in I bought 500 3/16" self seals for 47.00 free shipping on amazon.
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:03 AM   #15
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Just outa curiosity why rivet at all?
Why not weld ?
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:47 AM   #16
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Just outa curiosity why rivet at all?
Why not weld ?
Ask the bus manufacturers.
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:29 AM   #17
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im guessing a couple things...


1. a completely rigid bus is going to make for the possibility things break when they should flex.. rivets with seam sealer behind allow for some expansion and contraction of the various metals with motion, temperature and the like.


2. likely a lot less time to go down the side of a bus during manufacturing with a rivet gun than it is with a welder...



-Christopher
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:30 AM   #18
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Box of rivets and a rivet gun $35-$50, no talent needed other than drilling a hole and squeezing some pliers.

Welder and assorted safety equipment $500-$5K, and some serious skills needed.
It's a no brainer. I'm sure at the factory the riveters get paid a bunch less than a welder.
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
im guessing a couple things...


1. a completely rigid bus is going to make for the possibility things break when they should flex.. rivets with seam sealer behind allow for some expansion and contraction of the various metals with motion, temperature and the like.


2. likely a lot less time to go down the side of a bus during manufacturing with a rivet gun than it is with a welder...



-Christopher


Time makes sense to me but why use rivets to patch ?
Just to match whats already in place ?
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Old 08-24-2018, 05:40 PM   #20
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Closed end rivets are expensive!

1300 rivets+300 backing washers=$321
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