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Old 08-09-2018, 01:11 AM   #21
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 513
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3000RE
Engine: T444E w/ MT643
Rated Cap: 84 pass, 40'
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2martins View Post
I tried the biscuits but the 1/2 plywood is too finicky for that to work. We may have to glue it down or do the metal sikkaflex thing again. That part is holding up fine.

Removing and cleaning the windows is taking FOREVER and they still don't look that good. We have MOST of them back in, reinstalled with butyl tape, weather stripping, and we will finish with sikkaflex. Some of the windows did NOT want to go back into place. After attempting various adjustments to the windows etc I finally took an angle grinder to the top off the c channel above those windows and took off just 1/8th". I can't imagine that tiny amount is going to do anything structural. We have 3 pieces of sheet metal in but 5 of them were the wrong size so we are waiting for them to be re-done. Not impressed with the sheet metal shop that charges that much and can't cut an F'ing RECTANGLE!?!?!?

We built the wheel well boxes and they are not square, but neither is the bus, so...

We finally got the old linoleum off the stairs. That was hard! We have 6/8 flasher holes covered with circles I cut out of metal we removed. The other 2 are problematic because the bus came pre-dented in that area and it's not flat. I use a panel beater hammer on that section every now and then for a few minutes.

Haven't started the bus in weeks.

Cobbled together a way to lock the emergency side door. I think it may actually work.

Need to finish the ceiling panels with stain we picked (left over from my house) because our color scheme is "free." I have my ceiling panels all cut and laid on on boards to bend them to the curve of the bus so that it will HOPEFULLY be a bit easier to install them. I have 4x8 sheets of thin 1/4 birch sanded plywood that we are going to pressure fit in place. We have the "foot" installed on one side and we have tested our idea. It's going to be a b!tch to install the other foot which will hold the other side in place. It took 3 people to test fit one piece. I think 4 people and some dead man's lifts will make it do-able. The foot is a 2x2 with a 1/4" notch that will hold the ceiling in place against the ribs at the bottom and against the straps/furring strips at 3 points along the ribs higher up. The center of the ribs wanted to flex in so we cut rigid insulation to fit behind the ceiling all along the foot. We tested it and it looked good. We are getting closer to being ready to spray foam.

Got lucky and got nice kitchen cabinets free off a local Facebook group. Also got a gas stove/oven that is already converted to work with propane free. It's large but I figure the oven is good storage space when it's not in use and you have an oven if you want one. My son actually cooks so he was all for it.

Need to finish cleaning the last two windows and re-install the last 6 or so. Thank God I live somewhere dry because we have had the windows out for over a month and only had to throw the tarps on twice briefly. First time we used the one enormous tarp I bought. It was too big to use. Giant PITA.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:53 PM   #22
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 513
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3000RE
Engine: T444E w/ MT643
Rated Cap: 84 pass, 40'
We have FINALLY gotten all the windows cleaned and reinstalled. We replaced 8 windows with 18 gauge sheet steel. We still need to sikkaflex the outside, but the inside is all done. I used rigid foam insulation shoved up under the rib above the window to and at the bottom to help keep it flat in place while we screwed them in and that worked well. We tried various approaches to pushing against the metal while my son drilled into it and what worked the best was holding the end of a 2x2 flat against the area he was drilling.

We still need metal for one window and the 2 ceiling hatches. Can I use the piece of ceiling I removed for the hatches or is it not low enough gauge? It's curved, so being able to curve the metal could be good. I could double it up if needed?

We also installed the wood furring strips below all the windows (we didn't do that where we have metal). The furring strips have thin slices of foam insulation behind them to make them flush with the chair rail below them. The spray glue I used said it was foam safe but it sort of ate it a little bit but it's all still as even as it's gonna get in a bus that is not square nor level anyway.

We examined the air tank today and discovered this: this looks like it might be a way to attach a tool or something to the tank? We also figured out the autochains are moved up and down with the air. I do NOT see how the door connects to the tank. I guess the air goes up to the front of the bus and then branches off to the door and whatever else up there uses it? The seat doesn't have air ride so it isn't that.

We started Mobi again today. The battery has been unhooked and despite the fact that it was pushing 80 Mobi did not want to start without a little time on the block heater. We really have to replace the glow plugs if we ever want to be able to drive him anywhere! Then again, we'd also have to reinstall the seat and figure out why the clearance lights and windshield wipers no longer work.

My son fixed a wire I accidentally got with the angle grinder while convincing one of the windows back in the opening after pulling them all and did some other electrical stuff.

Our hole saw does NOT want to cut the bus metal. I don't own a jig saw. How do people do that? The sawzsall would make an unholy mess.

I am feeling much better having gotten the windows back in and openings covered so that if it rains we no longer have to run out and tarp it. We are also one step closer to being able to spray foam which I somehow thought we would be able to do a month ago. Um, no.

So can I attach a tool to the valve thing on the bottom of my air tank? Click image for larger version

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Old 08-16-2018, 12:11 AM   #23
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It would be better to install a "T" fitting into one of the lines higher on the tank with a quick coupler for the air hose. Using an upper fitting you will not get as much moisture in you air tool. The valve on the bottom is for draining moisture out of you tank. MAKE SURE TO OPEN THE VALVE AND RELEASE ALL OF THE AIR PRESSURE BEFORE REMOVING FITTINGS ON THE TANK.

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Old 08-16-2018, 06:42 AM   #24
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A holesaw that won't cut metal..that is a new one on me. What are you trying to cut and where is it? Pilot bit, cutting oil and firm pressure usually gets it done. Curved surfaces? Just cut into the metal slow and do the low side cutting first till it gets evened out.


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Old 08-16-2018, 01:24 PM   #25
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Join Date: Feb 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
A holesaw that won't cut metal..that is a new one on me. What are you trying to cut and where is it? Pilot bit, cutting oil and firm pressure usually gets it done. Curved surfaces? Just cut into the metal slow and do the low side cutting first till it gets evened out.


John
He found more hole saws. The first one was definitely for wood. Crossing fingers for next try.
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:12 AM   #26
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Join Date: Feb 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones View Post
It would be better to install a "T" fitting into one of the lines higher on the tank with a quick coupler for the air hose. Using an upper fitting you will not get as much moisture in you air tool. The valve on the bottom is for draining moisture out of you tank. MAKE SURE TO OPEN THE VALVE AND RELEASE ALL OF THE AIR PRESSURE BEFORE REMOVING FITTINGS ON THE TANK.

Ted
Thanks! Does the air dryer only work when you are driving? Mobi is a mountain bus so he has a heated air dryer to go with his autochains, sanders, and MT643.
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Old 08-22-2018, 02:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
A holesaw that won't cut metal..that is a new one on me. What are you trying to cut and where is it? Pilot bit, cutting oil and firm pressure usually gets it done. Curved surfaces? Just cut into the metal slow and do the low side cutting first till it gets evened out.


John
we tried with a different one for wood, no go. we bought one for metal but HD gave him the wrong bit thing that goes with it. augh!
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Old 08-26-2018, 10:10 PM   #28
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OK, so I suck at spray foam. We put about 9" in some places and less than an inch in others. I am hacking off the excess and putting it in the wheel wells and I will shoot some foam in there during round 2 to stick it together. We decided to go ahead and use more pink 2" foam cut to fit in places where it needs to be right for the ceiling to be curved properly against it and where it was hard to get the foam during round 1. The multimax is MUCH better than the serrated dinner knife I was using at first.

I also got lucky and found some 1" polyiso at habitat for $1 for 1/2 a sheet cut into triangles so I'm going to use that doubled up, foil out on the outside and foil in on the inside in areas where I want at least 2" but don't want to have to trim the foam off. It's for the walls only, not the floor which is the XPS. It will all have a little spray foam in it also in the wall behind it.

The table saw cuts the pink foam PERFECTLY. It's amazing! It does quite well with the polyiso as well. When it's 1/2 thick it bends to fit the ribs nicely. I am using liquid nails to hold it up. It's foam safe. I also cut the pink stuff it to hold up the conduit under the window on one side. I used a thin piece of it to pressure fit it into place for while I spray foam around that.

All the cutting and fitting in place is a lot slower than spray foam, but it doesn't require trimming afterward and it's perfect. I cannot trim it perfectly! This is one situation where having OCD tendencies is not a great thing perhaps?

Need to connect the old 1" ID heater hose to the new 5/8" ID heater hose. I am not sure what to use. Autozone didn't seem to have anything per my son. I want something that will hold up long term and not leak. brass? copper?
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:16 PM   #29
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OK, so I suck at spray foam. We put about 9" in some places and less than an inch in others. I am hacking off the excess and putting it in the wheel wells and I will shoot some foam in there during round 2 to stick it together. We decided to go ahead and use more pink 2" foam cut to fit in places where it needs to be right for the ceiling to be curved properly against it and where it was hard to get the foam during round 1. The multimax is MUCH better than the serrated dinner knife I was using at first.

I also got lucky and found some 1" polyiso at habitat for $1 for 1/2 a sheet cut into triangles so I'm going to use that doubled up, foil out on the outside and foil in on the inside in areas where I want at least 2" but don't want to have to trim the foam off. It's for the walls only, not the floor which is the XPS. It will all have a little spray foam in it also in the wall behind it.

The table saw cuts the pink foam PERFECTLY. It's amazing! It does quite well with the polyiso as well. When it's 1/2 thick it bends to fit the ribs nicely. I am using liquid nails to hold it up. It's foam safe. I also cut the pink stuff it to hold up the conduit under the window on one side. I used a thin piece of it to pressure fit it into place for while I spray foam around that.

All the cutting and fitting in place is a lot slower than spray foam, but it doesn't require trimming afterward and it's perfect. I cannot trim it perfectly! This is one situation where having OCD tendencies is not a great thing perhaps?

Need to connect the old 1" ID heater hose to the new 5/8" ID heater hose. I am not sure what to use. Autozone didn't seem to have anything per my son. I want something that will hold up long term and not leak. brass? copper?
Gonna be hard to find a single fitting because you are going down 2 sizes at once. Use a 1"-3/4" brass hose barb and then a 3/4"-5/8" barb to step down to your hose size.

1 in. x 3/4 in. Brass PEX Barb Reducer Coupling (YOW-532927)

You might see if a 3/4"-5/8 will work. Sweat a stub of 5/8" pipe in one end and see if the 1" hose will fit over the ID of the 3/4" end.
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:40 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Gonna be hard to find a single fitting because you are going down 2 sizes at once. Use a 1"-3/4" brass hose barb and then a 3/4"-5/8" barb to step down to your hose size.

1 in. x 3/4 in. Brass PEX Barb Reducer Coupling (YOW-532927)

You might see if a 3/4"-5/8 will work. Sweat a stub of 5/8" pipe in one end and see if the 1" hose will fit over the ID of the 3/4" end.
I found them online at Homedepot.com thanks to your help. Waiting for them to arrive - will take weeks apparently?!?!

And yesterday we finally finished spray foaming over 6 weeks after I hoped to be done. Mobi is going to be one of the best insulated buses EVER. There are 2" in the floor and ceiling and 2-3" in the walls and front and rear. 8 windows deleted. I have 1" foil backed for the lower half of all the windows. I'm going to cover them with something- fabric? Wall paper? After foil taping all the edges after they are cut to size so that they hold up and are cleanable on the inside. Trying to decide what to do for the outside. Cover the lower windows with rice paper window cling stuff? I don't want to cover the foil because won't that reduce the value of the foil facing out? I'm more concerned about heat than cold. Where I have two layers I did the outside layer facing out and the inside layer facing in.

Thoughts?

Frankly we spent a ridiculous amount of money on insulation because we went ahead and used up the rest of the second 2 tanks on Mobi rather than saving some to use in the house which was my original plan.

The second round went better than the first but I am never spray foaming again. I'd rather do the cut and fit approach so it's all flat and pretty perfect as my OCD tendencies and schedule work better with that.
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:03 PM   #31
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Glow Plugs

I need new glow plugs. I am having a lot of difficulty verifying whether or not
Motorcraft ZD-11 is the right one for Mobi, who is a 1997 T444e 7.3L Turbo diesel. it's the second half of 97, after the transition.

Even the dealer wasn't sure if ZD 10 or ZD 11 was the right one. Any help appreciated.

I would love to find a website that would actually pull my bus up with the drop down menus AND not cost an arm and a leg. SOme of them have International but not my bus.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:37 PM   #32
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Just wondering if you have checked the power yet to the relay coil that feeds the glowplugs?
Pulling one and matching it for length is the only sure way to get the right one. Too long will be a problem so make sure of the same length, threads are the same in any case.
Looks like ZD10's are rare today so ZD11 may be the only choice.
But verify power to the coil first. The contacts inside might be bad causing them not to deliver enough heat to each glowplug. Or the magnetic coil might be shot as well so won't pull the contacts in to do any heating.


John
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Just wondering if you have checked the power yet to the relay coil that feeds the glowplugs?
Pulling one and matching it for length is the only sure way to get the right one. Too long will be a problem so make sure of the same length, threads are the same in any case.
Looks like ZD10's are rare today so ZD11 may be the only choice.
But verify power to the coil first. The contacts inside might be bad causing them not to deliver enough heat to each glowplug. Or the magnetic coil might be shot as well so won't pull the contacts in to do any heating.


John
I have absolutely no idea how to do that. I have found videos on how to change glow plugs. Also that seems like the most common problem for it to be. When we try to start it though it does ACT like its waiting for the glow plugs to do their thing and then the light goes out. If the glow plug relay relay didn't work, would it do that?
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:46 PM   #34
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Glad you are taking in some video, you always learn something different.
And you must know what and where the glow plugs are now?
Try this test first 2martins,


Go through the normal staring procedure you know to be right and then go back and feel the temp on each glow plug. Are some warm, cold, hot ?
That would tell you if they are getting power from the relay coil. It might just have corroded connections on it also. Clean them up and your good.


Your wait to start light seems to be working fine and when it goes out, then you start the bus engine. Or it should start if the glow plugs are working.


Do you know how to remove your glow plugs, post some pics of what you are up against so others with experience can give you tips you should keep in mind. This won't be your last experience with glow plugs, so don't let it get to you.


John
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:54 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Glad you are taking in some video, you always learn something different.
And you must know what and where the glow plugs are now?
Try this test first 2martins,


Go through the normal staring procedure you know to be right and then go back and feel the temp on each glow plug. Are some warm, cold, hot ?
That would tell you if they are getting power from the relay coil. It might just have corroded connections on it also. Clean them up and your good.


Your wait to start light seems to be working fine and when it goes out, then you start the bus engine. Or it should start if the glow plugs are working.


Do you know how to remove your glow plugs, post some pics of what you are up against so others with experience can give you tips you should keep in mind. This won't be your last experience with glow plugs, so don't let it get to you.


John
Well, not exactly, but I know that sometimes they are hard to remove and there is a thing called a glow plug remover that I can buy if that's the case. Is there another tool I may already own that is a good substitute?

I also know that some people recommend replacing the gasket at the same time and the relay and they sell whole kits with the plugs, gasket and relay all together. Do you recommend that or should I just clean the gasket or leave it alone?

I wish I could find my infrared thermometer! I *think* I used that this spring when I was trying to see if they were working and there was no change in temperature. I tried aiming it everywhere around where I thought the glow plugs were, so I think I would have noticed.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:12 PM   #36
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Hi, lost track of this thread 2martins.
So you sound capable enough but do you have the tools needed?
Did some looking at the T444E because I wanted to see how difficult it will be to change glowplugs, relay and harness. You may not need all of these parts but if you get new, then your troubles will be fewer in the longterm, by doing it all now or whenever you get around to it. Or find some help to hurry it along.

Looks like a socket set with extensions and deep sockets.

Maybe a crowsfoot wrench of whatever size the diameter of the glowplug is, just makes it easier to turn in tight spaces.
Pretty sure a torque wrench is best when installing with new washers as you questioned above.
Connections of wires to the glowplugs is something I can't discern from here but should be simply connected.
This pic shows lots of room to work at them in my mind.
Sure would hate to think what a shop would charge and then parts markup too.
Just disconnect your batteries and then you can start taking this apart. take pics so you remember how things should look when assembling.


good luck,

John
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Hi, lost track of this thread 2martins.
So you sound capable enough but do you have the tools needed?
Did some looking at the T444E because I wanted to see how difficult it will be to change glowplugs, relay and harness. You may not need all of these parts but if you get new, then your troubles will be fewer in the longterm, by doing it all now or whenever you get around to it. Or find some help to hurry it along.

Looks like a socket set with extensions and deep sockets.

Maybe a crowsfoot wrench of whatever size the diameter of the glowplug is, just makes it easier to turn in tight spaces.
Pretty sure a torque wrench is best when installing with new washers as you questioned above.
Connections of wires to the glowplugs is something I can't discern from here but should be simply connected.
This pic shows lots of room to work at them in my mind.
Sure would hate to think what a shop would charge and then parts markup too.
Just disconnect your batteries and then you can start taking this apart. take pics so you remember how things should look when assembling.


good luck,

John
I paid someone $300 to do it and watched. I could MAYBE do the easy side next time but no way would I try the other side. The access is really bad on one side! It took him 5 hours to do it, and most of the was the other side. He starts right up now!!
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:51 PM   #38
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sloth like progress

I have been plugging away at various things related to Mobi, but A LOT of the time was organizing my garage so that we can get the cars in for the winter and still be able to work on Mobi SOME at least. I have also been doing rust removal on hardware we may want to re-use, and replacing the windows I had to remove to clean off some uncured spray foam. That required removing and/or cleaning everything the goo was on and replacing anything porous. I am almost done. I took the opportunity to clean the windows some more while they were back out and added more insulation around them. A Dremel and a wire wheel got off most of the oxidation spots that were left even after scrubbing with an SOS pad and pressure washing carefully. It's slow, but it doesn't aggravate my carpal tunnel and tennis elbow the way the scrubbing did and it's more effective.
I still need to go around the outside of all the windows and use a sealant. I have some sikkaflex and some OSI quad. the sikkaflex was REALLY messy when we used it before, so I am hoping the OSI stuff is easier to use. They both SEEM to be good products and the OSI is for sure ok in this temp range which is very important this time of year.


Mobi has new glow plugs now and starts right up even without the block heater! I also got my ScanGaugeD installed and apart from my transmission fluid temperature which isn't registering, it's showing me what is going on. I guess the sensor is bad or the wiring to or from the sensor is messed up. I definitely have some wire in the engine compartment that is cut and I have no idea what it is so... ! That's gonna be fun.

I did not get bondo lessons as my brother in law looked at Mobi and basically said it would be a waste of time to try to improve his appearance. I have to admit I was kind of insulted, but he helped with other stuff, which I really appreciated. I got the Bondo cheap at Habitat so I don't agree with him about it being a waste of time but it may already be too late this year to do because the temperature is too low. The automotive seam sealer I got is supposed to be done above 70 degrees, too, which is pretty limiting for me in the mountains!

I hope others are making better progress than I am, but I haven't given up.
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:07 PM   #39
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good to see you got your glow plugs changed and it kicks right over..



your trans temp wont register on the data bus to be seen by the sacngauge.. its not a PID that the 444E ECM supports.. (the sensor if installed doesnt report to the ECM). on an MT643 you can screw a sensor into the port on the pan opposite the dipstick and run it to a gauge at your dash.. if you want it to look factory you can order the snap-in gauge from a company like circuit-board medics and place it in the cluster on the far left side middle position. (if you have the standard square-style cluster)... the harness may already be run to the vicinity of the trans.. it was on my red bus.. I just had to plug it in.



-Christopher
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