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Old 08-29-2021, 01:11 PM   #21
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Day 8:

Another early start and full days worth of work.

We carried on from day 7 and got the whole second side hung with clecos.

All the panels were then drilled to accept the rivets and then marked for window cutouts. The two front panels on the right side were pulled back down and we used a jigsaw with a bi-metal blade to cut them out. It worked very well on the 18ga steel.

Panels then went back up, cleco'd in place, and started to throw a few rivets in. Before we got too far, we decided to hang a window. And good thing we did! I pulled a captains chair inside, propped it up on blocks and then realized that I did not account for the window level when seated After much discussion, measuring, and brainstorming I ultimately decided that I would have to cut new planels with the windows at a lower height.

Fortunatly, it was only two panels that we cut and I did buy some extras to do the front and rear transition sections. I can reuse sections of the wrong panels and I only ended up needing one extra 48 x 120 panel.

Thats about where we left off, both sides hung in place and holes drilled with the need for another panel and some more holes to cut.

Day 9:

No pictures for this one yet, but I got some work done in the engine bay. I have done about 3 degrease and pressure washes of the engine and transmission. I then put two coats of primer, followed by two coats of the cummins tan (its original color). I did this now since I will be doing the Killer Dowel Pin (KDP) mod, new filters, oil change, belts and the new A/C Compressor. It was just easier to prep and paint now than later.

All my parts have come in to do all this work, so next day I'm out by myself I will start to tackle putting the motor back together.


Weather permitting, I should have another group of friends helping out on Labor day weekend to and get everything closed up on the skin. Stay tuned!
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Old 09-05-2021, 02:07 PM   #22
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Day 10:

Labor day weekend should afford me a few good days to work on the bus. A couple friends joined me again and we got to work drilling the remaining holes on all of the panels we hung from last time. The new sheet steel was hung, holes drilled, marked and cut for windows, primed and rehung in place ready to accept rivets.

The new window height is 5 inches lower than the prior mess up. With the projected height of the floor, the windows should now be positioned at just the right height. Feeling much better about it now.

I also started work on the rear cap section. I am re bracing where I cut for the raise so that it can be reskinned. I will not be reusing the rear emergency hatch/window but I have not decided if a rear facing window will be used. My initial thought is no, but as it starts to come together I may change my mind.

The motor got some attention as well. We pulled the timing cover to address the KDP. It looks like this motor has the "stepped" timing case with the lip to prevent the pin from ever coming out. However, I cant quite tell if there is a pin in there at all. The new pin that came with the KDP kit is too large because of the upgraded stepped case. The good news is that there is no visible damage whatsoever. Everything under the timing cover looks pristine. However, I'll have to do a little more research before closing everything up. In the meantime, all the parts that are off will get cleaned up and painted in preparation for reassembly.

Lastly, one of my buddy's brought over his drone and took a few pictures and put together a video. It really shows how cool Phrogmans property is. Enjoy!

https://streamable.com/tzwolb
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Old 09-06-2021, 09:47 PM   #23
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Day 11:

All day on the motor. Good news! When I first got the bus I spoke with the original owner for a few short minutes on the phone. He mentioned something about a "new " motor being put into the bus just prior to it sitting. Well, I saw a sneaky "Cummins Reman" tag on the valve cover. Based on that tag and how clean everything was inside, this thing cant have run much. No telling on exactly how many miles it has on it, but I'd say this is a huge win considering how much I snagged the bus for.

Either way, it needed a little bit of TLC. I started with checking for the KDP. I did some more research and determined that the pin was in fact installed. It hadnt moved at all (which makes sense due to recent service by Cummins). I put the KDP stepped tab in just for good measure. I also verified that the timing case bolts were tight and the two I pulled had signs of locktite. They were put back in with locktite and retorqued.

The rest of the day was spent cleaning, priming, and painting several bits on the motor. There were also several places where the wiring was rubbing so I started with a good look at cable routing and started replacing the very worn wire loom tubing. This gave me a chance to inspect closely and I found several prior repairs on some wires. Some were decent, many were starting to fail. Those will be repaired correctly before re looming.

There is still lots to do in the engine bay but overall, I think the motor is looking really great and I'm very happy with the way it is coming together.
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Old 04-30-2022, 02:34 PM   #24
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Okay. Lots has happened and I've been terrible with the updates. I'll post a few replies with pictures to catch back up to present day.


Last year winter came quick in the NE and stay for a long time. I didnt get nearly as much accomplished as I had expected and weather was the biggest contributing factor. I also had two good friends and big bus helpers that moved away at the end of last year. Sad to see them go, but they are off doing great things!

The sides for the roof raise went on pretty smooth, LOTS of solid rivets. The back required some additional bracing but I think it came together nicely. Phrogmans tractor bucket came in very handy getting the welder up high enough to do the work. I used some of the leftover hat channel pieces welded to the 2x2 square tube so that I had "ears" to rivet into. The back window was obviously leaking very badly as this was the worst spot on the bus with regards to rust. Thankfully not much repairwork was need as the majority of the window framing was removed. I will not be putting a window back in on the rear section.

As you can see in the pictures, the upper rear section was a single sheet that wrapped the corners. The original rear side panels were reused, and a large rectangle section was used to cover where the windows once were. There is a slight bend at the lower edge and I used a few bolts and nuts to tighten the panel flush before riveting.
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Old 04-30-2022, 02:56 PM   #25
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While the roof raise was being done we used a large roofing tarp to cover everything up. It was huge and annoying to pull down each start of the day, and put back up at the end of each day. A buddy of mine and I kept saying how we couldnt wait until everything was enclosed so that the tarp wasnt needed. In the end, we had a pretty efficient system getting it back up top and strapped down. However, the eyelets of the tarp kept tearing out due to big gusts of wind. We hoped that it would last long enough to finish the raise. It did, but the last set of eyelets ripped on the very last day before everything was closed up.

I was able to find some nice large boat hatches on eBay for a very reasonable price. Shipped to me they were about $300 total. For a brand new one of the same size it would be in the $800+ range. They came off a high-end Yacht and were in pretty good condition. Some of the hardware and possibly the glass will be replaced soon but the seal was good. They got disassembled and cleaned up back and my place and then I built an angle iron frame for both. I drilled holes for the mounting and then tacked up the nuts underneath.

Back to the bus, the emergency hatches were not where I wanted the boat hatches to be installed. I would have also needed to cut them larger anyway. So based on my current layout plans I recut holes and then used the cutouts to patch over the old emergency hatch holes. The frames were then welded in place, reinforced, ground smooth, and sealed up.

Over a few week period, my dad, Phrogman, and another buddy helped on different days finally finishing up the rivets. Aside from the front transition section everything was closed up and protected from the elements. The big tarp was gone, and a smaller one covered up the front. Such a relief!
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Old 04-30-2022, 03:03 PM   #26
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Hatch photos.
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Old 04-30-2022, 04:17 PM   #27
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Next up was the transition section. I did lots of research to see how others had done theirs. I taped together a few sheets of posterboard and folded it over to match the angle needed to tie the two pieces together. A little trimming and taped it down as a went. I spent probably a good hour just on the template. After I was satisfied, I transferred the template over to the 18g sheet steel and cut it out.

Because I had a good template, the steel cutout went up perfectly. I was very happy with how smooth it went. A few tack welds and a strap to pull it over and it went together in a few minutes. I welded up a cross member at the same height from the factory (77in) on the first tallest rib after the raise. Then the factory bracing from the front cap was welded into that cross member. I then welded two verticle supports connecting the front cap to the new roof height. Another cross member connects those together along with some additional angle iron to attach the skin. Overall, a pretty stout transition section.

Finally, in the center section I had to do in two pieces. The lower section I made slightly oversized with a rounded edge for a little flare. Most people cant see it, but I know its there...
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:26 PM   #28
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With the roof raise 98% complete, I moved on to the floor prep. The old holes that the A/C lines went through the underbay area were patched with 18g. All of the seat mounting holes and screw holes were painstakingly welded up. Not a difficult job, but a lot of time on my hands and knees closing all of them up. The rear engine was covered with an extremely strong adhesive back foam. I tried goo-gone and acetone with no luck. I eventually resorted to a grinder with a wire wheel. It got most everything off, but there is still some residue left from the adhesive.

Since the front cap and transition area is now all closed in, I was able to take some measurements for the bus A/C mounting location. I will be resuing one of the two bus A/C units and decided to tuck in into the triangle that was created by the transition from the higher roof line to the stock front cap.

I used square tube and notched one side out, then centerpunched and drilled a through hole for the bolt. The bus A/C was mounted with an eyelet and this square tube matched up perfectly. Once both were bolted in place I used a few wedges to raise the A/C up so that the new brackets could be welded in place on the upper roof support. I then pulled the wedges and loosened the threaded bolts down to the appropriate height. Another two small brackets on the back side were welded in place to finish the installation. I also checked the clearance on the back side so that after spray foam insulation I will still have room to build a small A/C duct to route down and out towards the driver and passenger area.
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Old 05-02-2022, 07:03 AM   #29
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great progress! only took you a year to do the roof raise! pretty good pace! Keep it up, the easy work is over now!
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Old 05-02-2022, 03:39 PM   #30
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While the cold winter kept me from doing much physical work, I was able to work on the layout. I used Sketchup and I really just kind of learned along the way. I have used it for basic woodworking builds, but nothing very detailed.

I had a basic idea from the beginning on what I wanted, but a few big changes and we ended up with the current floor plan. To be honest, I've made probably 100+ layouts or variations. You can see by the first picture just one of a few files with layouts. All of that lead to this final design which I'm quite happy with. After the rough dimensions were planned out in white boxes I then spent the time to round off some edges, add some colors and window treatments and get a much better idea on what this thing will hopefully look like. I'm certainly open to opinions or questions.
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Old 05-11-2022, 04:09 PM   #31
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Next up is the floor. I moved everything out of the bus and gave it a good sweep and vacuum. I then rinsed the floor with a water hose to get as much dust/dirt out of all of the crevices. Followed up again with a wet/dry vac for anything I missed. Etching solution was then applied.

While the etching solution sat, I worked my way up top and applie Sikaflex to the front transition seam and a few other suspect spots on the roof. A little more care was taken around the boat hatches and overall everything is looking quite nice.

Back inside a little later I could tell that the etching solution was working by the cloudy white reaction on the galvanized floor. I then thoroughly rinsed everything out and then broomed out any spots of standing water. Thankfully the bus was on a slight slope that allowed most of the water to drain right out the front steps. After about an hour the floor had mostly dried and showed a leftover chalk-like residue as described by the instructions. That was broomed out and the wetvac cleaned up anything that remained.

Finally, two gallons of Rustoleum heavy metal primer with a catalytic hardener mixed in and it rolled out nicely. Very happy to have the inside looking so clean. Any remaining paint was applied to the outside where needed including the front transition section.
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:05 PM   #32
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A quick update today. Got a few hours of work in on the inside since the floors are dry. Everything looks great inside, I'm very pleased with how the floor turned out.

We started with Kilmat on the wheel arches. It may be overkill but I liked the additional sound deadening properties for some key areas. I ordered two boxes and was able to do all four wheel arches with about a box and a 1/3 of the second one. The rest of the 2/3's will be used upfront in the driver's area where there is far less insulation. But thats for another day.

After the Kilmat was installed, we moved onto the 2in foam board for the floors. Started at the midway point since the rear floor will be raised. Foam was cut to about 89.5 inches and with a little bit of pressure, it squeezed right in for a good fit. We got the three trickiest foam boards cut and glued down, threw some plywood down and added some bumper plate weights to keep it in place.

The plan is to do hydronic heating for the floors, so the plywood will wait to be secured until all of that is sorted. Stay tuned.
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Old 05-12-2022, 10:00 PM   #33
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Wow, Just got on your thread for the first time. If you wanted a coach bus, why didn't you just buy one? Seriously, I think that's the best roof raise I've seen. Love the transition right from the front. Reminds my of an old Trailways bus. With those windows
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:46 PM   #34
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Wow, Just got on your thread for the first time. If you wanted a coach bus, why didn't you just buy one? Seriously, I think that's the best roof raise I've seen. Love the transition right from the front. Reminds my of an old Trailways bus. With those windows
I appreciate the comments. Yes, it looks a bit like a coach but was far cheaper and a little more simple to work on.

I had'nt see the trailways bus so I looked them up. You are right, the windows give it a similar look. I will be adding more of the windows to both sides, I just havent cut them in yet.
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:52 PM   #35
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OK, I guess your roof isn't the same. Very cool though.
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:43 PM   #36
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Continuing the floor insulation. The front drivers area was disassembled as much as possible. The front heater grill was removed and cleaned so that I could evaluate the small bit of original plywood flooring. It looked good enough so I flush cut it with the the heater. Removed the driver area rubber and some of the under panel to allow more access for wiring in the future. Floors were then vacuumed, swept and vacuumed again before cutting a gluing the front foam board section.

I then moved on to the rear section. First, the engine area was covered with Kilmat and another layer of foam insulation. Then I started with the raised floor seciton. I decided to raise 6 inches from the center bus area all the way back to the engine area. For my layout, that means there will be one additional small step up into the bathroom area. The 2x6 "deck" will also allow for some utilities and wiring to be hidden underneath. Once the intial frame was put together, I went back and added more bracing in a few areas for both stability and solid anchor points for the walls. Then a few more cuts for the plywood floor and its starting to come together.

A few notes for future planning:

-Radiant flooring is up next. The tubing layout is close to being completed, but I havent decided on a "zoned" blower" off the same zone as the radiant floor tubing. Any insight is appreciated.
-The current plan is to have the 110 gal fresh water tank under the bed and on top of the lower engine compartment step. Just in front of the water tank would be the water pump, hydraunic components, heat exchanges etc. Then all the radiant tubing will drop below and run forward tot he living space.
- Current zones planned are the main living area, bathroom floor, center hallway, and master floor.
- Stock bus heater up front will be routed in the same fashion as stock, inside along the left wall and connect to the same engine bay connections. It will be covered behind the couch, kitchen, and under the rear floor section.
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Old 06-11-2022, 08:13 PM   #37
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Big update from the past 2 days:

The front half of the floor foam and plywood was down so it was time to pull up the plywood and lay out the radiant floor. I made a template on the CNC to space out the 5in radius bends required by the pex. This allowed me to evenly space down the centerline and include the additional space between for the heat transfer plates. I then used a router with a 1/2 bit, a straight edge, and the template to carve the route as shown. It went extremely quick and I had no issues whatsoever. After the foam dust settled, I used a broom and a shop vac to clean up everything. I then laid out the heat transfer plates and worked my way around pressing the tubing in. There were a few places that needed some aluminum tape to keep it down, but otherwise it was a very straight-forward install. Then the plywood flooring went back down in its correct spot with some adhesive and some bumper plates to hold it down.

The rear section is raised so blocking was required to hold the foam in place. Since there are 2x6 joists running the length of the rear section they will be bearing all of the weight. The foam will fit inbetween and allow the radiant floor to still be utilized. Underneath the foam will be a small channel for a few plumbing drain lines, water lines, and front heater lines. I've drilled a few large access holes with a hole saw in the 2x6's to allow a hand and a arm in for any future repairs or new runs. The back section is about 50% complete and I hope to complete the radiant lines in the next few days. More pictures in the next post.

I also finally got everything put back together on the motor. I had the alternator off for a while and was a little confused on how it was wired before (although I thought I took good pictures on diassembly). The alternator was pretty well weathered on the exterior and I couldnt find any manufactures markings. Thankfully, whoever had it off before me put in sharpie the model number (4860J). It was a little worn off, but was clear enough for me to get some info on line and put the wiring back as it should be. With the alternator fully installed, a repaired engine ground and a fresh oil change the motor cranked right up after sitting for a year. What a satisfying feeling!

Since the bus was back up running I couldnt help but take it for a quick spin on the property. I threw the air ride seat back in with a couple bolts and took off. The terrain was pretty sketchy in a few spots, but I got a nice shot in the back field with the sun shining. Shes looking great! Cant wait until its all one color and on the open road.
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Old 10-30-2022, 02:42 PM   #38
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I've been chipping away the last few months. So heres a post to catch everyone back up to the current progress.

My plan was to take the bust on its first little trip by the end of this year. So I needed to get everything ready for state inspection. I knew that the exhaust was needing to be replaced. I ordered a new direct replacement along with muffler hangers and some LED lights. Exhaust and exhaust hangers went on pretty smooth. The LED lights are all hooked up and look much better.

Next up was tires. I checked the date code on my current tires and they were 19 years old! I knew the bus had sat for a few years, but these tires should have probably been replaced well before it sat. I did some research and found a local tire shop that had been in business for many many years. I called them and got an appointment. I drove the bus from Phrogmans property about 7 miles to a gas station. I put some gas in it and got some very strange looks. The bus doesnt exactly look pretty at the moment. Another 10 miles or so and I made it to the tires shop. They were happy to see the bus and got to work right away. Unfortunately, I got to learn about hub-piloted and stud-piloted wheels. They said that the lugs were seized and they did not have the means to break them loose but recommended a shop not too far away that would. So, I gave the second place a call and they took me right in. I waited for about 2 hours but got a rundown of any other items that might cause me to fail inspection. Aside from a loose ball joint and brakes the service tech said it was one of the cleanest busses he'd seen. So I left it at the shop for about a week as they ordered parts and did the work. I ended up getting all new lug nuts, new rear axle seals and new brakes. Now back to the tire place. They work with the city fire departments and do all of their tire changes and sell their lightly used tires and a very reasonable price. With 6 tires, mount and balance the fronts out the door was $1200.

With new tires and brakes, I drove it back to my place. Phrogman has been absolutely great to let me keep it at his farm to work on it, but having it in my driveway allows me to work on it far more frequently and also take adavantage of my woodshop.
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Old 10-30-2022, 02:56 PM   #39
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$1200 for 6 tires, that’s a steal! I think I paid like $1800 for 4 in 2021.
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Old 10-30-2022, 03:08 PM   #40
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$1200 for 6 tires, that’s a steal! I think I paid like $1800 for 4 in 2021.
Yeah, they were something like $130 a piece plus mount, balance, and disposal fees. So I was extremely happy with the price. The tires were matching brand all-position, with minimal wear on them and only 3 years old.

If anyone is in the Northern Virginia area and looking for a good shop for tires just let me know.
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