Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-10-2016, 07:16 PM   #81
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Rough idea of what I'm thinking:



Good thing about a plasma cutter is you can do long cuts along square tubing to make it meet at really shallow angles like this:


Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2016, 07:32 PM   #82
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Being as it so so damn cold, and that we're supposed to get snow on Friday and Saturday, and that I work until it's dark everyday, I figured the best way to work on the addition was to back that ass up into the garage. Finished her off with tarps all around, and it's actually sealed pretty well. I'll crank up the baseboard heaters and have a comfy(ish) place to work.





Immediately noticed an issue I hadn't thought of before. Mocking it up with a piece of square stock, it doesn't really sit in the curve of the frame very well.

(Pics are upside down to pretend it's the top lol) I can have it resting on the top like this, but it's far away from the side.


I can have it resting on the side, but it's far away from the top.


Half and half seems a bit of a compromise. It would be a wide, multiple pass weld on both edges, but doable?


I could weld it far enough down that I can get the torch up top, but I'd need to practically use 4x4's for the decking board, lol. Is that too redneck or heavy?



And a potato quality shot of my driveway as of now. Everyone toast my lovely wife for putting up with my shenanigans!

Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 05:04 PM   #83
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Got the two main bars and the main back piece tacked on. I used a piece of 1/4" flat bar (that was the plasma guide for cutting the floor) to bridge the gap and welded the bar to the top of the frame. Lots of redneck engineering was used to hold everything in place while I tacked it, haha. First I had to fix this sign:



Then welded the flat bar on. I did the whole top side since that would be covered up by the main tube. On max power my welder would trip the breaker every 4" or so, so I'm saving the bottom side until I wire up a proper outlet. Once that was done, I welded the main bars onto the frame. Went pretty good.






Then I got the rear bar welded on:




In case you're wondering what the bucket is for, all the snow we got this weekend was melting and dripping off the bus, so I made a little catch system.

Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 10:04 PM   #84
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Got more bus work done! Got the main bars welded and made some supports for the main bars on the extension. It looks super simple, but took way longer than it should have. Everything on a bus isn't exactly square, frame included. The "C" channel is different on both sides, which leads to a lot of trimming, hammering, grinding and clamping.

Made a cardboard template which somehow ended up being horribly off. Cardboard fit fine, but metal did not. Angle was OK if I added about 9" to the beam, so one of my beams has a little addition that I welding in then ground down. Shhh, no one needs to know.

Used the plasma to cut these nifty looking pieces. Traced a piece of flat stock to ensure a nice straight cut:





You can see the little "addition" in this one. I used this one to make the other one the same size. The second one was perfect, haha.



Both pieces match!


Clamped the crap out of them and welded them on!





Whatcha know about some flux core gap filling?


Like I said, buses ain't square!
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 08:32 PM   #85
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Would have gotten the extension's main frame done if it weren't for the rain. I made the right side of the frame. Made a little spacer to make it meet the floor support for a little extra rigidity. Why not.




It then goes to the frame with a 90* piece. This will get triangulated to the frame with another support.



I couldn't do any more because of this pesky problem: it rained today, so I had my garage irrigation system in place. However, the stream of water directly intersects the left side of the frame I'm building. I admitted defeat and waited for a dryer day.

Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2016, 07:34 PM   #86
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Other side finished:




My chop saw must be messed up, because when I made the triangulation pieces for the sides, one angle looked like 45* and one looked like 30*. Grrr... time for a nice 14" one I guess. This old 10" one has been good to me but I've been asking a lot from it.
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 07:15 PM   #87
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Since the floor of the bus is 4" above the main bars of the extension, I used some 4x6's for my decking boards. Big? Yes. Sturdy? Hell yes. Rough estimate of what it'll look like:



Started making a diagonal platform for the D-rings to sit on so that the strap isn't rubbing the boards. Who said flux core can't be (somewhat) pretty?



Fancy woodworking tools:




It fits!



This is what the rear bumper and ramp mount will look like.



I set all the boards in place so I could tack up the brackets to bolt them on. I was originally going to drill holes through the beams of the extension, but then thought 24 holes in a structural piece may be a bad idea. (Plus I hate drilling holes.) I had some brackets for assembling a harbor freight trailer laying on my shelf, so I cut them each into three pieces. This gave me a bunch of uneven, yet strong, brackets with pre-drilled holes for the boards.


Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 12:08 PM   #88
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Made a couple little braces for the D-ring mounts, then burned them on. I also boxed in the rear bumper tube so crap doesn't get in it.






Now I guess I'm waiting on ramps so I can make the ramp mount...
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 02:31 PM   #89
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Whatcha know about flux core welding? The whole welding to the bus frame sticker is true.
I am a welder by trade and I have done some flux core but even anything better would not look much better? When welding to heat treated steel you need to use a torch or a form to preheat the better metal or it will not except the weld no matter flux core,arc,tig.
If you end up in an accident a good lawyer that sees that can fight because the manufacturer said no welding unless you have a welding certification you can be in trouble later. Besides that for the bus frame steel it is already heat treated so for a flux core welder or mig welder you need to preheat the bus steel in the area you are welding and I mean it almost needs to be cherry red. Not what you are adding just the original frame. It will not hurt to clamp and heat both but it will take longer .
Heat treated steel is made by several methods study them before you weld to them and I recommend as soon as the color through your welding hood goes that you have a squirt bottle of at a minimum 30 weight motor oil there to coat. Look up how heat treated steel is made then you will understand more about connecting to it
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 02:49 PM   #90
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
Besides that for the bus frame steel it is already heat treated so for a flux core welder or mig welder you need to preheat the bus steel in the area you are welding and I mean it almost needs to be cherry red. Not what you are adding just the original frame. It will not hurt to clamp and heat both but it will take longer.
Thanks man! I'll do some reading. Maybe I'll need to get the torch out and heat it up and make another pass.
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 03:04 PM   #91
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Pre-heat the heat treated steel and it will accept the weld and use the squirt bottle of oil while they are both hot to cool the weld and you are on your way to making your own heat treated weld
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 03:09 PM   #92
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Thanks man!
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2016, 08:02 PM   #93
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Heated the crap out of the frame til it was starting to glow, then welded it. It went much better! You could see the frame getting "eaten" by the puddle as it went along. Did a couple of 4" stretches.
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 10:36 AM   #94
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Some of you metal guys might be able to verify something for me (Googling for two years has yielded nothing verifiable).

I have been "told" by old school rodders and builders that the frames on just about all war-time & pre-war vehicles are very different than their post-war counterparts and need to be handled very differently.

Specifically when it comes to any welding.

According to a number of these folks, the design strategy was very different resulting in metallurgy that was very different. Pre-war design called for very stiff suspension (massive springs, little or no shocks) coupled with a very flexible (non-heat treated) frames. Post war (with the advent of better suspension components) most went to very rigid (heat treated) frames with much softer suspension and real shock absorbers.

The result being that direct welding on war & pre-war frames was far more likely to lead to inconsistent tempering and induce serious fractures than on post war units.

For this reason, to date I have kept welding on my frame to an absolute minimum.

While I can appreciate their combined experience...can anyone here provide anything a bit more scientific than what the rat-rod crowd had to offer in this regard?
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 11:47 AM   #95
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
I heated a couple of sections up with a torch last night and rewelded. You can definitely see the penetration. So either the torch heating the frame is working, or it's not heat treated. Either way, I'm confident with it. I'll check it periodically to make sure it doesn't crack, but it's not like the whole car is bouncing on it. Only the litle bit of weight of the back of the car will be on it. The boards probably weigh more that the weight of the back of the vehicle lol. When I notch the frame for the dovetail I'll make fish plates for it as well as welding the seam.
Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 12:52 PM   #96
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
My "issue of the moment" is the fact that I have to completely replace the center, main crossmember. If I could be confident it would not compromise the frame to the point of breaking in two...welding would be SO much simpler than the multi-piece, bolt together arrangement I am now piecing together.

I also need to replace the original front engine mount brace (crossmember) as it was chopped out to park a 350 Chevy engine that is now long gone.

So, given that this was a simple "ladder" frame...mine has a couple of significant rungs either missing or requiring a replacement. That is why I'm hoping to find out more about the nature of the iron in this particular frame and what it will put up with without snapping or folding up.

The story I was told by the old school builders sounds rational, but some technical data would be nice.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 04:19 PM   #97
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Sorry sir,as a welder I can't offer any advice? My original advice was not to weld period but tippy an had already attempted to weld. I have done a good little bit of welding on heavy construction equipment. Excavater booms,buckets,bulldozers blade extensions with many varying ages but only one bulldozer blade arm from maybe 1945-50 the pins for the blade attachment had wallered the holes out and I added 1" plate doughnuts to tighten the holes up again and I have worked on tractor trailers even though I said not recommended but they upped there pay and said weld it?
I have used the pre-heat method with the oil bath and have even seen and still see some weekly on some of the companies equipment I work for and I know those welds/attachment have been well used and abused. For your situation site unseen I really can't recommend anything and as far as your question about the difference in heat treated steel I can't answer and most of the old timers that I learned everything I know from are retired. So give me a chance to catch up and ask some questions and I will let you know what they say.
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 04:43 PM   #98
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Thanks. Like I said, according to the old-timers, the steel used on the pre-war frames was a different animal that had to be treated differently but I have not found anything more so far than a few iffy opinions to back it up. I do know that even some of the newer frames are labeled with a tag that says "Do not drill or weld", but as you noted, there are a lot of them that have been greatly modified...so who knows?
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 06:59 PM   #99
Almost There
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: VA
Posts: 82
Got some upgraded pix from the usual doodles: MSPaint!

How I plan to notch the frame:



How I plan to fish-plate it after welding the seam on both sides:



A diagonal brace I plan on using (like the one I did in the rear) to tie the angle together:



Super crappy attempt at a 3D drawing showing an x-brace welded to the diagonal brace shown above:



If all that looks acceptably strong, the next question I have is how much to notch? I would love to make a nice straight cut, lower the frame down until the seam is touching, then weld it up. This is where I need a math whiz lol.

Tippyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 04:25 AM   #100
Skoolie
 
gizmoq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: St Louis Metro
Posts: 110
Year: 1978
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: Lifeguard
Engine: 366 Chevy
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtoZ View Post
If all that looks acceptably strong, the next question I have is how much to notch? I would love to make a nice straight cut, lower the frame down until the seam is touching, then weld it up. This is where I need a math whiz lol.

I used a web-based right angle calculator and included the top of the wheelwell for one end of my hypotenuse... that way the dovetail blended seamlessly into the rest of the ramp. As you can see below, the 3/4" plywood rests flat on the dovetail and a ramp is built under the plywood from the dovetail to the wheelwell.


__________________
The more I do, the more I find needs done.
____________________________________
Build Thread - ET - ELWOOD Transporter
gizmoq is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.