Bus conversion Self sufficient.

[kflowers]

I guess this will be a fairly long post. Sorry if its to much.

My girlfriend and I just bought a 1997 international bus. Several of our friends are also buying buses this month. Our goal is to convert these buses into a full time residences. We are extremely interested in this bus being as close to self sufficient as possible.

we will be building this bus at the Worcshop. I have done a fair amount of metal, wood and composite materials fabrication. we also have a mechanical engineer, health and safety scientist, electrical engineer, another metal fabricator,carpenter, and a mechanic helping on this project.

None of us have ever done a conversion on a bus and we plan to be doing 2-3 of these together as a group. I wanted to share the high level ideas we have and hopefully get some input from you guys. Most of this stuff is real high level and bound to change so some degree.

Electrical

Input
We plan on using solar panels to collect solar power (top front of bus). We are still figuring it out but around 6-9 solar panels depending on model of panel. We plan on using 24 volt panels to work with our batteries bms system. (bottom back of bus)

Output.
Our battery bank will use 18650 cells. Each battery will have a battery protection circuit to protect the batteries. We are sourcing individual clips for each battery for easy service. The backplane for the batteries will be milled aluminum. Each battery module (holding 96 cells) will have an arduino that monitors temperature, hydrogen, and volatile gases. The battery modules will be housed in a sealed box under the bottom of the bus (back left side)

Heat

Input
We are going to have 6-8 evacuated vacuum tubes in a parabolic trough(top back of bus) We will flow a high temperature liquid (haven't settled on one yet) through the tubes to collect heat. The flow rate will be reliant on a temperature around 600-700f. The liquid will flow through a graphite heat exhanger into a container of salts. The salts will store the heat for the night. Hot water and bus heat will both run off this system through a secondary heat exchanger. (Behind right rear tire).

Output
Below the bus we are laying pex tubing along the ribs. There will be 2-3 different zones depending on whose bus it is. Hot water will flow through the tubes for radiant floor heating.

Water

Input
We plan on collecting rainwater from off the roof. In Massachusetts we are allowed to collect rainwater.

Output
All rainwater would go into a potable water tank after going through a ceramic and activated carbon filter. the storage tank will be a 30 gallon stainless tank with uv sterilization.

Drinking water.
We will have the drinking water come straight from the potable water tank. Excess water will be filtered in a sand and activated carbon filter and added to the shower tank.

Shower
We plan on making a modified version of the showerloop system. The system will be a 20 gallon insulated tank for pre heated water. The water will run through a sand and activated carbon filter to remove contaminates.

Clothes Washing.

Water from the shower tank will be used for clothes washing. This ensures water is drained from the shower. We plan on having a washer/dryer combi.

Sewage
For sewage we plan on having a composting toilet. We want a straight tube that goes into a compartment on the bottom of the bus. We will seperate the urine from the fecal matter.

Insulation
We are using bubble insulation attached to the top of the bus. For the sheet metal panels on the roof we are going to glue closed cell foam insulation. The goal is to have a air gap remain between the top and bottom of the bus roof. For the sides we have foam insulation panels that we will cut to size. For the bottom we plan on using a spray foam maybe. not really sure yet.

Flooring

We are planning on ripping up the current plywood and replacing it with cherry or oak flooring. the other two buses are keeping the original flooring.


This is really all we have planned at this point. As time goes on we will start solidifying plans and I will update this post.

We have removed seats and started cleaning the frame of the bus. It should be completed in the next couple days and then we are painting.

Thanks for reading all this and let us know what you think.

[Oldmopars]

Ambitious! Please keep us posted with lots of pictures of the progress.
Also, fill us in a little more on the philosophy and the budget for these buses. This sounds like a crazy big build, I will be interested in following it and understanding the reasons why.

[milkmania]

[Iceni John]

Have you and your GF spent any appreciable time together in a bus/RV/boat/tiny house? If not, you may want to first make sure that you can do so before investing all the time and effort in your dream bus, otherwise you could find you've made a technically flawless vehicle that you simply don't want to spend time in.

For solar panels, eight grid-tie panels (about 30V and 8.5A each, about 2kW total) will nicely charge eight golfcart batteries at about a 13% charge rate, but if you have a 12V system like in my bus you need two charge controllers because that much charge current is more than any single CC can produce. If you have a 24V system, a single CC will work, but then you have a voltage that is less common in RVs and buses (even though it makes better sense electrically).

You'll be surprised how dirty bus roofs get, just from all the airborne dust and grime that's part of modern life. Any rainwater you manage to catch from the roof will be very dirty and a long way from potable. After only a month or so my roof looks like I never washed it at all. Yuk.

That ShowerLoop looks interesting. However, its mention of sensors and microprocessor controls scares me off it. We all know how long sensors and electronics work when in close proximity to water. (Look what happened to the 4.5 billion dollar USS Zumwalt that's now dead in the water in the middle of Panama, all because some water got into a switch . . .) In comparison, I have 220 gallons of fresh water in my bus that can give me a lot of 5 gallon navy showers, and without any electronics to do a Zumwalt on me!

In moving vehicles, simple is always better.

Good luck, John

[cowlitzcoach]

I agree with John on several issues with the most important being the relatively small space of the bus. On a warm spring day when you are outside it may seem rather large. On the third straight week of gray, wet, and cold days the space will seem extremely small.

I also agree with John about how complex you are making your build. Some of it I understood and some of it I think I will need to see plans to fully understand what you are trying to accomplish. The first thought that occurs to me is weight. You are going to be hauling around a lot of systems that weight quite a bit. You are going to have to decide how much of that weight you want to haul along with you as you go down the road. If the build is going to be on a bus that doesn't move very much then it won't matter that much how much it all weighs. But for a bus going down the road weight is going to slow you down, particularly on the hills.

I have washed a lot of buses over the years. While most of the time I never got up on top to wash the roof I know you could at times see the line where my brush went and where it didn't above the windows. It really does get quite dirty up there. I don't know that I would want to drink anything that had come of the roof if it wasn't first filtered a LOT.

You mentioned ripping up the current floor and putting wood flooring down. You also mentioned running heating lines under the bus to warm the floor. I see two problems with doing that. First, you are going to lose more heat to the out of doors than you will get coming up through down below. Second, it won't be easy to run the lines around down below. I think that if you laid out your heating coils on the floor of the bus and then build a floor over the heating coils you will find the installation much easier and the heating will work better.

Before you start doing a lot of building I would suggest you lay your final floor plan out on the floor with some painters tape and cardboard/posterboard in order to get a real idea of how everything fits together. Then take the bus and your GF and spend a weekend camping out in the bus. I think you will discover that what looked great on the computer didn't translate very well in the real world of the interior of your bus. It is much easier to change dimensions of tape and cardboard than permanently built in wood and metal.

Also, by taking the bus out on the road you will discover if the power package is adequate for what you plan to do with the bus. Almost all school buses were built for to/from route service where the bus rarely ever goes over 35 MPH. If that is as fast as you intend to go there isn't a bus built that can't do that, no matter how much stuff you pack into the bus. But if you want to be able to comfortably cruise in excess of 60 MPH it might be a good thing to know if your bus can do that or not.

I really do not want to seem like I am raining on your parade. I think your ideas and goals for the project sounds like it is going to be a lot of fun. But keeping yourself grounded in reality is important as well.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress.

[retiredChemist]

The taping out works very well to help get the idea to a physical state.

I'd also suggest to design using units. E g specific space/volume for a bunk unit, kitchen unit etc. That way if you decide you don't like something later on its a lot easier.

Placing your big cupboards over the top of each wheel, helps with getting the weight distribution back within design limits, which means suspension etc can then be left alone.

Solar panel wise, have a look at the ribs in the roof before getting carried away. They'll largely dictate where you can bolt to securely. Unless you're planning on installing extra framework to get something solid to bolt to.

[Deezl Smoke]

I clicked on the Worcshop link. Not sure I get just exactly what it is for sure, but in Portland Oregon there is also a place that goes by Green Anchor I think it is, where people can get together and build things, share knowledge and skills etc. I have seen some of the really cool stuff that comes out of there.

I hope if you get going on this, that you share with the forum how it progresses. Anytime a group of people can get together and brainstorm on a multiple unit build, some really cool new things can result.

There's a composting toilet thread with a lot of participation already going that you might read thru. You'll likely end up wanting to keep the solids container small and service it more often than large and less often. IMO

[rossfree]

Originally Posted by kflowers

Output.
Our battery bank will use 18650 cells. Each battery will have a battery protection circuit to protect the batteries. We are sourcing individual clips for each battery for easy service. The backplane for the batteries will be milled aluminum. Each battery module (holding 96 cells) will have an arduino that monitors temperature, hydrogen, and volatile gases. The battery modules will be housed in a sealed box under the bottom of the bus (back left side)

Love your enthusiasm! Won't throw any wet blankets... enough going around. If you have the time, money and energy... I say DO IT! I happen to agree with the others (LOL) but what do WE know?!!! HA! If everyone stopped because someone else's it couldn't or shouldn't be done, where would we all be? Make us wrong!!!

Love it!

Curious about your battery bank. What cell arrangement do you have in mind? Voltage, projected amphrs? Kwhrs? Battery bank cost? Very interesting idea!

Ross

[kflowers]

Thank you all for your responses. I will try to answer your questions as best as I can and also update this frequently. Our budget is 1000-1500 a month. We have already collected a good amount of the materials that we need. We realize this is an ambitious build. I wouldnt take this on if there werent a group of people helping me with this.


This is the rough layout of the bus. There shouldnt be major changes but we will probably change some small details.


We plan on having 3 zones. One for the master bedroom. One for my daughters room and one for the general living space.


This is the layout for the bottom of the bus.


This is the layout for the top of the bus

[Iceni John]

If you want to use Li-Ion batteries, you should read Technomadia's website: Lithium Ion Batteries for RV Motorhome House System - LFP / LiFePO4 | Technomadia

John

[kflowers]

Here is our rough bus layout


Here is the layout for our heating zones.


This is the layout for the bottom of the bus


Layout for the top of the bus

[Tango]

I would suggest locating all of your "wet" work on the driver side of the rig. That is the side dump stations are set up for plus you can run into some significant difficulty running pipes and drains across the belly.

[kflowers]

Thats a great point. I shifted all the wet works to the drivers side of the bus.

[Carytowncat]

Years ago i dated a girl and we lived in an attic together through a snowy Utah winter. For whatever reason we were compatible that way and could be in each others company for days upon end without getting on each others nerves. She was a genuine authentic person with one face, and i was a lunatic. We fit well. Point being like anything else we adjusted. When the cabin fever set in we took walks, she read books, i wrote screenplays, we cooked meals, and genuinely enjoyed each other. Funny our relationship did best wjen time were tough. Once i got a good job and we bought a car and had a nice apartment it all went to hell in a handbasket, but i knew better than to get a job so i take part of the blame

Good luck, and we look forward to seeing what unfolds.

PS; I had plans for this 85 GMC bus but at the last moment decided to just put my things in it and hang out for awhile (hot summer) and i am glad i did, it really helped my layout unfold naturally. Not everyone is like me, some people do better to plan and execute. I like to take naps, watch Scooby Doo, eat snacks, and watch what unfolds.

[AlleyCat67]

Originally Posted by Carytowncat

I like to take naps, watch Scooby Doo, eat snacks, and watch what unfolds.

I always wondered how much 420 was in those Scooby Snacks......

[kflowers]

Today we started pulling the inside wall panels for insulation. For the sides we are using 2" thick R-11 insulation. I have a whole pallet that should be more than enough for the sides. Tomorrow i will start cutting blocks out and inserting them. Here are some pictures finally.

[Mojorizn1965]

Since you're in the planning stages. I tossed up some pics of my brainstorming on this 9ish window design. Maybe useful,maybe not...lol. I'll be following your build as I'm curious to see how the washer/dryer/dishwasher work out. I've seen a dehumidifier used in place of a clothes dryer, but don't recall seeing a dishwasher in actual use. You have some interesting ideas, outside the box for sure. Keep posting your progress.

[kflowers]

We have been talking and we are thinking about raising the roof of the bus. The plan is to cut the supports between the windows and cut across the top of the bus on the front and back. We are still figuring out how far we are raising it and what we are going to do for windows. Here are some images of what we are thinking of. Once we talk later i will update to reflect the window plan as well as the added structural support.

[Tango]

Much less drag if you taper down the rear as well.

[kflowers]

Pulled out half the screws in the roof panels today. Found the best way was with a impact screwdriver to loosen the screws and a impact driver to get them out. This works great and doesn't damage the metal panels.

Figured I would add some pictures of the tools we will be using on this build. Special thanks to the http://www.theworcshop.com



























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